Valiant vs. Shooter - COURT DOCUMENT

[Daniel Jackson]

I think these guys at VEI had zero knowledge of the comic book business, and just saw these Spider-Man and X-Men movies, and thought spending $900K initially to purchase rights to these characters that no one was paying any attention to anymore was a fast way to make a few million bucks.

"wow, we just need to land one movie deal, and we're rich!"

If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

In the case of Dino, I don't think he went into this just for the big money that the movie rights would make. He is a Valiant fan and I think he wants to see the magic of the early Valiant happen again just as much as the rest of us.

I agree. I feel really sad for him right now, because it seems like he was almost able to pull off exactly what we'd all been hoping for. I really don't know what went wrong, but my condolences go out to him (if that's the right word)

Sounds appropriate in this case to me.

[superman-prime]

wow i was gone 5 hours and this is 5 pages long

[Daniel Jackson]

wow i was gone 5 hours and this is 5 pages long

I'm certain it will get much bigger.

[slym2none]

In the case of Dino, I don't think he went into this just for the big money that the movie rights would make. He is a Valiant fan and I think he wants to see the magic of the early Valiant happen again just as much as the rest of us.

I agree with DJ on this point. That is my impression of Dinesh.

I have met the man, and this is a perfectly fair representation, not that crap about "Ooh, X-Men movies! I can make large dollars with THESE properties, then!" that was spouted earlier.



-slym

[jedimarley]

In the case of Dino, I don't think he went into this just for the big money that the movie rights would make. He is a Valiant fan and I think he wants to see the magic of the early Valiant happen again just as much as the rest of us.

I agree with DJ on this point. That is my impression of Dinesh.

I have met the man, and this is a perfectly fair representation, not that crap about "Ooh, X-Men movies! I can make large dollars with THESE properties, then!" that was spouted earlier.



-slym

One..Two..Three strikes you're out at the old ball.....

[myron]

In the case of Dino, I don't think he went into this just for the big money that the movie rights would make. He is a Valiant fan and I think he wants to see the magic of the early Valiant happen again just as much as the rest of us.

I agree with DJ on this point. That is my impression of Dinesh.

I have met the man, and this is a perfectly fair representation, not that crap about "Ooh, X-Men movies! I can make large dollars with THESE properties, then!" that was spouted earlier.



-slym

One..Two..Three strikes you're out at the old ball.....

wasn't he some kind of film major at college????

[hulk181man]

So things were allegedly progressing in a dream direction and now....the whole mess might get tied up in legal bull *SQUEE* for several more years? I'd be surprised if the Dark Horse launch happens any time soon and VEI appears back at square one.

Time to bail and forget about it all

[iggy101us]

So things were allegedly progressing in a dream direction and now....the whole mess might get tied up in legal bull *SQUEE* for several more years? I'd be surprised if the Dark Horse launch happens any time soon and VEI appears back at square one.

Time to bail and forget about it all

Rather than being saddened by what we could have had, we can still enjoy what we do have.

[Daniel Jackson]

So things were allegedly progressing in a dream direction and now....the whole mess might get tied up in legal bull *SQUEE* for several more years? I'd be surprised if the Dark Horse launch happens any time soon and VEI appears back at square one.

Time to bail and forget about it all

Rather than being saddened by what we could have had, we can still enjoy what we do have.

Good attitude to have, Iggy.

(still sad though)......

[UnknownTales]

So things were allegedly progressing in a dream direction and now....the whole mess might get tied up in legal bull *SQUEE* for several more years? I'd be surprised if the Dark Horse launch happens any time soon and VEI appears back at square one.

Time to bail and forget about it all

Rather than being saddened by what we could have had, we can still enjoy what we do have.

We have nothing right now.

[iggy101us]

So things were allegedly progressing in a dream direction and now....the whole mess might get tied up in legal bull *SQUEE* for several more years? I'd be surprised if the Dark Horse launch happens any time soon and VEI appears back at square one.

Time to bail and forget about it all

Rather than being saddened by what we could have had, we can still enjoy what we do have.

Good attitude to have, Iggy.

(still sad though)......

I know . . . we are all sad and disappointed.

What we do have are the good stories that we can re-read, interactions with the people involved, and a community of fans who are still passionate about VALIANT. And no lawsuit can take that away from us.

[Daniel Jackson]

So things were allegedly progressing in a dream direction and now....the whole mess might get tied up in legal bull *SQUEE* for several more years? I'd be surprised if the Dark Horse launch happens any time soon and VEI appears back at square one.

Time to bail and forget about it all

Rather than being saddened by what we could have had, we can still enjoy what we do have.

Good attitude to have, Iggy.

(still sad though)......

I know . . . we are all sad and disappointed.

What we do have are the good stories that we can re-read, interactions with the people involved, and a community of fans who are still passionate about VALIANT. And no lawsuit can take that away from us.

Amen.

[comicsyte95]

So things were allegedly progressing in a dream direction and now....the whole mess might get tied up in legal bull *SQUEE* for several more years? I'd be surprised if the Dark Horse launch happens any time soon and VEI appears back at square one.

Time to bail and forget about it all

Rather than being saddened by what we could have had, we can still enjoy what we do have.

Good attitude to have, Iggy.

(still sad though)......

I know . . . we are all sad and disappointed.

What we do have are the good stories that we can re-read, interactions with the people involved, and a community of fans who are still passionate about VALIANT. And no lawsuit can take that away from us.

Amen.

Thants the definetly the right attitude to have,and hopefully when one day when this mess is sorted out,i have faith that new stories will come someday...

[x-omatic]

After reading it I can see that IF events transpired the way as outlined AND there is proof of such agreement than Shooter would be in the wrong. Sad to say but true.

However, since we know that Dark Horse has had at least the reprint rights for longer than Shooter was employed at Valiant it is entirely possible that they also already had the right to print new material or rights for first claim to print new material.

It is also possible that Dark Horse had plans to do new comics well prior to Shooter signing on. It is also possible that Dark Horse asked Shooter if he would be interested and he may have said he couldn't until 3 months after he quit Valiant.

If that is the case and Classic media in fact said that Dark horse claimed Shooter was working for them, it is possible that Dark Horse was over stating employment with knowledge that Shooter would work for them in the future. If that is the case it would be Dark Horses fault.

It could of well been that Shooter had said that he would like to work on the characters IF Dark Horse go the rights to them, BUT couldn't as long as employed by Valiant.

I feel so bad for Shooter, even IF his fault. If this doesn't just kill any desire left in his heart for the characters, I don't know what would.




As far as taking a computer with information on it. It doesn't state that they don't have copies of the information, only that the computer contained the information. I am sure they would have to some how prove what was on the computer.

It also seems like Valiant wants the courts to stop Dark horse from publishing the characters. They may already have had the rights but thats on hold now regardless.

[TDarke]

This is too bad. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

[Crow331]

Just remember, if you are the person who brings about the lawsuit, you always tell your side and only your side, and you tell it in a way that makes the otherside look as bad as possible. Sometimes telling the 100% truth and sometimes embellishing the truth to favor your lawsuit. Just as Jim will have his side and I'm sure it won't favor VEI in the least bit.

I don't know what to believe, but this is a no-win situation. Hopefully, since Jim is a friend and Dark Horse has a vested interest in what happens, Dark Horse will have some of their lawyers that will go to bat for Jim for free or cheap. He definitely needs a good lawyer.

[slym2none]

What we do have are the good stories that we can re-read, interactions with the people involved, and a community of fans who are still passionate about VALIANT. And no lawsuit can take that away from us.

Well said - there is no reason to think that because Shooter and VEI are having legal issues that our home here will change in any way. "We" are not at issue here.





-slym

[ian_house]

I really don't care anymore...

[Sal]

Best case scenario: Valiant goes bankrupt and DH buys the rights to the characters.

I really don´t care about the details. I want to see these characters brought back under Shooter and DH is an estabilished publisher.

The truth is that Valiant has been conducting themselvems in an amateurish manner and I´m not sure they would have what it takes to succeed in today´s market. If DH got a hold of the characters, they would be back for good.

Shame that DH didn´t go afther them in the first place.

[KenClarkson4Prez]

the last we heard from Dino was back in January

dino:
Forum: General VALIANT Discussion Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:26 pm Subject: Anything New Happening W/Valiant?
Hi guys, We're still here, and there's some really exciting news that we'll be announcing. The only reason I have refrained from posting anything is that it can often cause more harm than good. But ...
------------------

now that the timeline has been revealed, it seems that this news was most likely Shooter coming aboard in december. as it turns out, i am thankful Dino never announced it. it would have made this mess even more heartbreaking.

[Heath]

Best case scenario: Valiant goes bankrupt and DH buys the rights to the characters.

I always thought the "best case scenario" - assuming that Dark Horse had long held the rights to the GK3 - would be a partnership between VEI and DH so the framework of the original VALIANT universe could be maintained and allowing VEI to take advantage of DH's publishing experience. But, doesn't look like that will ever happen now.

There seems to be some discrepancy regarding when Dark Horse acquired the rights. There are statements pointing to DH having the rights for quite some time. There are other statements pointing to DH acquiring the rights shortly before SDCC.

[Fanboy375]

Best case scenario: Valiant goes bankrupt and DH buys the rights to the characters.

I always thought the "best case scenario" - assuming that Dark Horse had long held the rights to the GK3 - would be a partnership between VEI and DH so the framework of the original VALIANT universe could be maintained and allowing VEI to take advantage of DH's publishing experience. But, doesn't look like that will ever happen now.

There seems to be some discrepancy regarding when Dark Horse acquired the rights. There are statements pointing to DH having the rights for quite some time. There are other statements pointing to DH acquiring the rights shortly before SDCC.

Supergraphics on the VCS board pointed out this article:

http://www.comicvine.com/dark-horse/57- ... /92-27607/

Journey Into Comics: Magnus, Solar to return at Dark Horse

Topic started by TheDrifter on July 31, 2008.

By Michael San Giacomo

Think you’ve heard all the news from San Diego? HAH! Here’s something everyone else missed. Magnus, Doctor Solar, Doctor Spektor and other Gold Key characters will return in new stories from Dark Horse comics. Dark Horse President Mike Richardson confirmed, okay, was coerced into confirming, that the hard-fighting heroes who were once part of the Valiant universe will return, along with other 1960s Gold Key characters that Valiant never used. "We've been republishing collections of the Gold Key Magnus and Solar, Man of the Atom, books for a reason," he said, backstage in the Dark Horse booth at the San Diego Comic Con. "When those are done, we'll be coming out with new adventures." He was not ready to announce the creative teams on the new books, or what other Gold Key books were in the mix. For those of you with bad memories, Magnus was born in a future where humans had become reliant on robots to do everything. As robots sometimes do, some revolted and Magnus was there to karate chop them into submission. Doctor Solar's origin sounds a great deal like DC's Dr. Manhattan, though Solar was decades earlier. A scientist is trapped in a nuclear thingee and becomes an energy creature. The lesser known Doctor Spektor was an investigator of the occult. His adventures ran toward vampires, werewolves and the like and lasted through the early 1980s. Doctor Solar guest-starred in a couple issues as did another Gold Key superhero, The Owl. Magnus and Solar were two of the main reasons for the success of the early Valiant comics, that coupled with the writing of Jim Shooter. After the powers-that-were at Valiant dumped Shooter, the books went into the toilet. Hey, wouldn't it be amazing if Dark Horse could get Shooter back to write the books? I never thought I'd see Shooter back on DC's Legion of Super-Heroes and there he is, so anything is possible. Join with me now: WE WANT SHOOTER.

Posted 1 year, 2 months ago

Look at the date. 5 months before shooter was even hired at Valiant!

[greg]

There seems to be some discrepancy regarding when Dark Horse acquired the rights. There are statements pointing to DH having the rights for quite some time. There are other statements pointing to DH acquiring the rights shortly before SDCC.

We know that Dark Horse had the rights from Classic Media to print new material years ago,
but it appears that they didn't do so in the originally licensed timeframe.

In order to print new material, Dark Horse must have needed to re-acquire those new material rights from Classic Media.

[iggy101us]

There seems to be some discrepancy regarding when Dark Horse acquired the rights. There are statements pointing to DH having the rights for quite some time. There are other statements pointing to DH acquiring the rights shortly before SDCC.

I don't think there's necessarily a discrepancy, rather it's unclear what rights people are talking about. I think there are different rights that are in play - (1) rights to reprint old Gold Key issues and (2) rights to create new comics based on the Gold Key characters.

Dark Horse released HCs of old Gold Key Doctor Solar and Magnus issues beginning in early 2005. So Dark Horse secured the reprinting rights awhile ago.

What is unclear are:
(1) When did Classic Media granted the GK new comics rights to Dark Horse?
(2) How close was VEI in securing the GK new comics rights?
(3) How involved was Shooter in helping Dark Horse in securing the GK new comics rights? If Shooter was involved, did this happen while Shooter was EIC at VEI?

[leonmallett]

Best case scenario: Valiant goes bankrupt and DH buys the rights to the characters.

I really don´t care about the details. I want to see these characters brought back under Shooter and DH is an estabilished publisher.

The truth is that Valiant has been conducting themselvems in an amateurish manner and I´m not sure they would have what it takes to succeed in today´s market. If DH got a hold of the characters, they would be back for good.

Shame that DH didn´t go afther them in the first place.

As much as I agree that VEI have made some big mistakes, I don't agree that their bankruptcy would help at all. Quite the opposite. If they did it is no guarantee any other publisher would pickup with the properties straight away - look how long it took to resolve the purchase from Acclaim; not a good prospect again.

All I ask for is that VEI focus on comic books, or to choose to move on to something else. I don't think the lawsuit will help them at all in their endeavours, but they have chosen this path, I just hope they don't regret their actions because what is done is done - the die is cast.