Team Books

[dave]

has anyone given much thought to the amount of team books that valiant produced? it seemed to go nuts a bit towards the end. it seems more than a little redundant.

obviously you have harbinger to start with, and there are two teams w/i that book (the renegades/harada & eggbreakers)

but then we got hard corps
followed by armorines and secret weapons
finally the psi-lords.

what was the purpose of all of these different teams?

iirc they all had the same basic premise too.

super-powered team with a judas among/leading them.

any thoughts?

[BloodOfHeroes]

You sell more action figures with teams.

Once you have a team, it's fairly standard to have a betrayal. Nt sure Joe Campbell covered it exactly in those terms, but your standard plots re: teams are

1) Who's the Judas?
2) What's the Deep Dark Secret of Character X that no one else on the team knows?

The teams that DID evolve were logical steps, universe-science wise. I still think that, while most didn't warrant their own books, they weren't bad in and of themselves...

[iggy101us]

You left Punx off the list.

[iggy101us]

You sell more action figures with teams.

Once you have a team, it's fairly standard to have a betrayal. Nt sure Joe Campbell covered it exactly in those terms, but your standard plots re: teams are

1) Who's the Judas?
2) What's the Deep Dark Secret of Character X that no one else on the team knows?

Marvel got this formula down really well with the X-Teams and spin-offs.

[ncameron]

obviously you have harbinger to start with, and there are two teams w/i that book (the renegades/harada & eggbreakers)

Well in marketing terms its in some ways easier to sell a team book. the Avengers and X-Men are two of marvels top selling brands.

but then we got hard corps

Which spun out of Harbinger post unity so with Harby selling upwards of 100,000+ units why not have a spinoff featuring a 3rd side in their war with Harada.

followed by armorines and secret weapons

Armorines I never really cared for, but secret weapons for the first 10 issues had Nijak and Bloodshot together! Ideally it was the Valiant JLA and Avengers, in reality it was a nice way to give some characters a 2nd book without having to headline and they could throw some peripheral characters in as well.

-Neil

Ps. the less said of Psi-lords the better we are. Valiant vision was kinda horrific.

[X-O HoboJoe]

1.) Terra
2.) The Phoenix power eventually overwhelms your human side or you are a self-healing punching bag berserker who can't remember your past.

[Phoenix8008]

I always liked the team books as well as the solo character books. Heck, I even like Psi-Lords! Sure, I wish they hadn't done the Valiant Vision coloring, but I was intrigued by the characters, their powers, and where the storyline was going. So I have no complaints about the number of team books because I enjoyed them just as much as the rest.

[Daniel Jackson]

Heck, I even like Psi-Lords!

Hmm....let me see, that officially brings the total number of Psi-Lords fans up to.........one!

[slym2none]

You sell more action figures with teams.

Once you have a team, it's fairly standard to have a betrayal. Nt sure Joe Campbell covered it exactly in those terms, but your standard plots re: teams are

1) Who's the Judas?
2) What's the Deep Dark Secret of Character X that no one else on the team knows?

Marvel got this formula down really well with the X-Teams and spin-offs.

So, you just want Marvel-lite?





-slym (he keeds, he keeds)

[BloodOfHeroes]

I believe it was the cover to FANTASTIC FOUR that had the tagline, "Together for the first time!"

That Stan--he was a genius in so many ways.

My biggest objection to the latter team books is that the teammmates had essentially the same powers, which took something away, IMO.

As I mentioned once upon a time, I liked the Psi-Lords, but as background characters. Especially in the latter days of MRF. THEN I cared about them.

[dave]

My biggest objection to the latter team books is that the teammmates had essentially the same powers, which took something away, IMO.

that is pretty much the point i was making. what did all of the other teams really add? hard corps made a lot of sense-somebody would want to learn to mimic this newly discovered phenomena.

secret weapons and armorines seemed nearly identical-powers plot and characters. then psi-lords were the hard corps of the future, having returned to the earth right? i don't know if that was ever officially established in a book, but it seemed clear that that was the direction they were headed.

[Cyberstrike]

You left Punx off the list.

And Rai and The Future Force too.

[xodacia81]

Heck, I even like Psi-Lords!

Hmm....let me see, that officially brings the total number of Psi-Lords fans up to.........one!

No, it doesn't. Psi-lords fans can't count. That book never existed.

[Daniel Jackson]

Heck, I even like Psi-Lords!

Hmm....let me see, that officially brings the total number of Psi-Lords fans up to.........one!

No, it doesn't. Psi-lords fans can't count. That book never existed.

Hahaha....good point.

[Solitude]

One advantage of a team book is that it gives readers multiple characters to latch on to. Don't like Superman? He's not the only guy in JLA. Don't like Radioactive Man? Songbird's on the Thunderbolts too. It's also a way to bring in other readers: Like Captain America? He's in Avengers too, so you might like that.

And while it doesn't HAVE to be the Dark Secret/Judas kind of stuff, multiple people in a book opens up different opportunities for drama and conflict than a book covering a single person. I think Young X-Men did this well.

Hardcorps, I liked because while the characters basically had the same powers, they were sufficiently different. They felt like individuals. It probably helped that they were so visually distinct.

Armorines, Secret Weapons, and Psi-Lords... None of those characters stand out to me. They were too uniform, and always just struck me as cannon fodder. As a reader, I didn't feel any investment in the individuals, so the teams fell flat.

[BloodOfHeroes]

I liked SECRET WEAPONS and I agree with Kevin VanHook, who once said somewhere that they should have launched the book under a different title. Psi-Lords were good as guest stars. I never dug Armorines as a title, but liked Gunny [especially now in PLAYING GOD] and Sirot.

H.A.R.D.Corps was good, for many of the same reasons Solitude outlined, above.

[Cyberstrike]

My biggest gripe with Armorines was that all the characters when in costume they all looked the same and I couldn't tell them apart. I also had the same problem when I was reading Wetworks.

[Daniel Jackson]

Hardcorps, I liked because while the characters basically had the same powers, they were sufficiently different. They felt like individuals. It probably helped that they were so visually distinct.

Armorines, Secret Weapons, and Psi-Lords... None of those characters stand out to me. They were too uniform, and always just struck me as cannon fodder. As a reader, I didn't feel any investment in the individuals, so the teams fell flat.

Harcorps never lived up to it's potential. I liked the concept, but as with Armorines, SW and Psi-Lords, the titles were all too bland and generic for me.

I think they should stick with guest shots until they come up with a winning formula for them.

[xodacia81]

Hardcorps, I liked because while the characters basically had the same powers, they were sufficiently different. They felt like individuals. It probably helped that they were so visually distinct.

Armorines, Secret Weapons, and Psi-Lords... None of those characters stand out to me. They were too uniform, and always just struck me as cannon fodder. As a reader, I didn't feel any investment in the individuals, so the teams fell flat.

Harcorps never lived up to it's potential. I liked the concept, but as with Armorines, SW and Psi-Lords, the titles were all too bland and generic for me.

I think they should stick with guest shots until they come up with a winning formula for them.

I think that is what killed Valiant. Too much "sameness". Gunny was a great character. Psi-Lords was better as an ELEMENT. The "original" Secret Weapons was, imo, more fun. I don't think any of them really needed their own book, though. Did we really need a group of "let us all gather and beat each other up" books? Nope, didn't think so. I liked HC prior to issue 14. After that, it just sort of lost focus. Still, never a "top book" imo. Not bad, but not GREAT.