The V2 X-O Manowar # 1 A.S.H. edition! (Surprise VcVSS!)

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:21 pm

DawgPhan wrote:
Yeah but I dont want everyone to have the same chance. It doesnt matter...People are going to do whatever it is they want to do with them. oh well...

Dawg, what happened to the ---->

Don't let these fools get you down in the dumps!

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:24 pm

The bottom line is there's no easy way to do this with out somefealing slighted or left out.
Greg we need your wisdom..

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:24 pm

here ya go...nothing really...worked all weekend trying to make some extra money and check in on monday to find this. This particular one doesnt bother me. First it isnt a valiant, then there is no number #34, but it just makes me wonder about things to come. Oh and I also didnt like the way it was just dropped, but there is nothing I can do about that...now will someone please tell me about the coa on this thing.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:26 pm

gowaltrip wrote: And I just came on and got one. I understood that point. Since then, I have made it a point to be an active member of the board. I have no idea if my posts have any merit or not, I hope someone enjoys and responds, but I also notice the board does have a few clicks.

I think you are the only one that didn't hit and run!!

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:29 pm

DawgPhan wrote: now will someone please tell me about the coa on this thing.

No clue, dude. From the pic, it doesn't look like Greg's COA. I know Valiant1 said that Sonic Dan helped to design it. That's all I know. BTW, did you see SonicDan's Turok card set offering. Think there might be a few left if it strikes your fancy and it went up to #42!

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:36 pm

maybe we should try it this way...

what if the vcvss or a.s.h. editions were scheduled thru greg.

now, i'm totally not speaking for greg or anything like that, just go with me for a sec...or a few minutes...i tend to get wordy.

so, i decide i want to do a vcvss book. i talk to greg and tell him when i want to present it. greg tells me someone's already got one planned for that month but no one's set anything the month after. so i now have the time period to which i can start to work. if the month greg has available doesn't work for me, i have 2 choices. one, i can push it back to another month or two, i can chat with greg and the person doing the book the same month i need and see if we can't work out a deal where i can offer my book either before or after the other one.

now, once greg has attached a month to a particular project, it can be announced on a new thread available to registered members only (vcvss projects or somesuch).

that way, you could conceivably have 2 to 3 months of notice that a book is coming up. the person coordinating the project may not have all the specifics, but they should at least know what book they're offering and who's going to be signing it.

as for quanitity, i'll leave that up to the individuals involved with their respective projects. however, i'd like to go on record again with my concerns over the "print runs" being too high.

now on to the biggie...how to make sure everyone has an equal opportunity to share in the coolness that is vcvss and a.s.h. edition books...i think the absolute fairest way to do it is this...with the 2 to 3 month advance notice, everyone should get an opportunity to see that post and decide from the very beginning whether or not they want one. if you happen to be in the first 25, 40, 50 or however many then you get a book. if not, tough.

now, how can i be so firm on that? simple. because it affects me as equally as it does everyone else. if someone decides to offer a vcvss book for september, and they post it in june when i'm in chicago and away from the boards, well i guess i just don't get that one. i can always put my name on an alternates list, for people who reserve a copy and then either change their minds or don't pay.

from what i can tell about the last 2 i was a part of (solar #1 and magnus #0) there seems to be a signifigant amount of effort that goes into the process of offering these to the board. and it seems rather unappreciative to put more pressure on guys who are actually trying to do something cool for as many people as possible.

so...let the hate mail begin!

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:42 pm

jedimarley wrote:The bottom line is there's no easy way to do this with out somefealing slighted or left out.
Greg we need your wisdom..

I dont care about people being left out...I care about 1 of these project sbeing dumped on this board every few weeks....it appears right now that there are atleast 3-4 know project going on right now. People are going to get screwed. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem if the wrong people get screwed and if people get screwed for the wrong reasons.

anyway this is really pointless to argue about. People are going to do what they want to do. I guess if greg didnt want to sign the coa or emboss it would be ableut the only way to stop anyone's project.

Yeah I saw the Turok card set, but copies of art doesnt really do it for me and I dont really care about the card. It does look kinda neat, but it is just not something that I am interested in. Though it would be a way to go with a future vcvss project. Besides I started a new hobby this weekend. Collecting handpainted concert posters. Most of done by either silk screening or by block pressings...rather neat if you ask me...the turok set could get me a new poster...well atleast one of the new ones...older ones that I want run into the $500 area...

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:43 pm

Well, of course, being in Arizona, taking care of my disabled aunt (being the only man left in the family who gives a damn), I was out of access until now...

...and yes, I have officially missed a VcVSS.

Wow.

I dunno....some advance warning (like Greg gave) would have been really, really nice.

I'm bummed as hell.

Oh well.

F**K me.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:45 pm

cinlach@aol.com wrote:
*snip, snip*

correctly...this doesnt need to run uncontroled...I thought that there was an unwritten rule of about 3-4 per year...now we are look at 3 in about 2 months...with 3-4 more inthe works...control...damn you dino for starting something so cool...

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:55 pm

i think 1 every quarter would be cool...but we should allow a little spur of the moment stuff too.

my scenario was by no means a finalization of plans, simply a starting point to establish some guidelines.

i can see the logic in 3 to 4 a year though.

k_c_collectibles · Post by **k_c_collectibles** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:01 pm

Cinlach,

I have no problem at all with your ideas. I think it is a grerat idea to have Greg do a schedule for who is doing a VcVSS book and when. That way the "surprise" factor will be gone.

The new thread idea is pretty cool also. How will that work? You sign up for the book when the thread is posted and have a certain amount of time to pay before your book goes to an alternate?

I also think the idea of keeping the books limited is to a set number is good as well. Steve did not know there would be that much interest in the VH2 book characters - that is why he only did 25.

I know there was a gread deal of preparation that went into the books and appreciate the effort put forth by all the people involved. Unfortunately due to financial issues I was unable to get the 1st three, but I can now!!

Technique · Post by **Technique** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:12 pm

I had drill this weekend so it looks like I missed out as well. I understand that no one is entitled to one of these but I would have liked a fair shot. I mean *SQUEE*, I may not be the biggest Acclaim fan on the boards, but I’m top five for sure. The way this was done I had *******0******** chance of getting one.

If I were to do one of these (and I should since Bob Hall lives here in town) I would try to make sure that it was done fairly so that no one would have a legitimate gripe with me.

I agree with Dawg on the timing of these. They will lose their significance if a new one materializes every few weeks. *Rant Deleted*

I still think that the best way to do these is via dutch auction with the proceeds going to charity(ies).

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:13 pm

The new thread idea is pretty cool also. How will that work? You sign up for the book when the thread is posted and have a certain amount of time to pay before your book goes to an alternate?

possibly.

maybe the person running their book could say that they'll be accepting reservations beginning at a certain time or date, and that anyone who hasn't paid in X number of days, forfeits their place in line.

I think it is a grerat idea to have Greg do a schedule for who is doing a VcVSS book and when. That way the "surprise" factor will be gone.

i do too, but again, i'm not going to speak for greg...if i was in charge and greg worked for me (now there's an interesting thought..."quit hoarding unity red's ya nutball!"

) i might try it that way.

but ultimately, since we're doing this in part to ease the financial burden of running the site, i'd hate to <B>tell</B> greg how to run it or how to do it.

the bottom line is this, we're all fairly intelligent and moderately mature so we should be able to get this to work...well, in theory anyway.

but remember, in theory communisim works.

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:29 pm

Honestly, I don't consider these books to be official as far as a complete collection is concerned. I really think this "VcVSS" madness/*SQUEE* a load of bull $ # ! +.

One person is always going to be left out. If it were for 50 books or 10. Someone will always be left out. Advance warning, lottery style, random number generator, or not. You can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

Also, think about it. The way it stands now, any person with a large stash of comics of a particular issue [say Turok #1] could find one of the major people from the book and have them sign a case/huge stash for them. Then they print up some fancy "certificates of legitimacy". Finally, they come here to hawk their wears.

A great way to unload some slow moving product.

~The Unblessed Soul

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:36 pm

Unblessed wrote:

Also, think about it. The way it stands now, any person with a large stash of comics of a particular issue [say Turok #1] could find one of the major people from the book and have them sign a case/huge stash for them. Then they print up some fancy "certificates of legitimacy". Finally, they come here to hawk their wears.

A great way to unload some slow moving product.

~The Unblessed Soul

Please don't give anybody ideas

There will be one of these every other week

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:37 pm

jedimarley wrote:
Unblessed wrote:

A great way to unload some slow moving product.

~The Unblessed Soul
Please don't give anybody ideas There will be one of these every other week

The first "VcVSS" gave everyone the idea.

~The Unblessed Soul

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:40 pm

which is why I would like much more transparency in the whole process, but to each his own..

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:45 pm

strong valid points...

i don't go out of my way to get the vvss books. if i find them for a decent price then i get them, but i don't feel as though they're required for me to have a full run. i feel the same about our projects...i don't feel the desire to own them all...i missed the ew #5 myself, such is life.

i guess the reasons i enjoy "our" versions is because it's 10 years later and we get a chance to show the creators how much we enjoyed their books, we're able to provide a little financial windfall to our bud greg, and we get something that we feel good about...something that is special because of the hard work that went into it.

these books are just as "valid" as any of the vvss books and they're nearly microscopic in terms of their availability.

i don't think anyone has made money on these little projects. if anything, they might have lost a little money. maybe it calls for some detailed record keeping to ensure that isn't what's happening.

does anyone disagree with this? should the coordinators of the board projects profit a little from the ventures they offer?

i do agree that someone will always be left out and someone will always be *SQUEE*. it's totally unavoidable. all you can do is the best you can...and hope your work is appreciated.

it takes a thick skin to run one of these things...i don't think i could do it.

i also wouldn't necessarily call magnus #0 or solar #1 "slow moving product"...ew #5 and vh2 x-o #1 maybe.

greg · Post by **greg** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:22 pm

jedimarley wrote:Greg we need your wisdom..

For the record...

I consider this project as "nearly identical" to the Turok set offered by SonicDan
for several reasons.

First, it's not a Valiant comic.

Second, it did not require the creation of a
Valiantcomics.com Validated Signature Series certificate.
Valiant_1 created his own certificate...
(Thus far, I have only created the certificates for three projects:
Magnus #0 from Bob Layton, Solar #1 signed by three major creators,
and Eternal Warrior #5 for the 5th Anniversary of ValiantComics.com).

Third, it is a "wholly fan-produced" project that just happened
to be distributed via this messageboard.

I recommended that Valiant_1 should use the same approach that SonicDan
did for the Turok set. It worked well for Dan, and I figured it would work well
for Valiant_1.

Honestly, I didn't know what you guys might think about a signed book
from VH2, without a ValiantComics.com certificate...
so it was logical to assume it might have the same response
as SonicDan's Turok set. Have there been any problems with that?

In the future... I can certainly recommend that "prior notice" should be
used for the announcement of a "fan-created" project via the messageboard,
but apart from "next time"... I don't know what else to tell you guys.

Hopefully, Mark Waid and Sean Chen are smiling from ear-to-ear
after seeing how excited everyone is for their signatures on this book.

dino · Post by **dino** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:23 pm

Here's how I see it:

The creator of these books has specifically called them A.S.H's not VcVSS. He even emailed me and told me they weren't vcvss's! THEY ARE NOT part of the series in the creators mind.

For what its worth they dont count as vcvss's in my mind either.

VcVSS's have a set format.
-Great books - the types that made us all come back and remember valiant, the types that we drool over (Magnus #0, Solar 1 etc).
-Standard COA - same format everytime. Similar to the VVSS coa, a blurb about the books origin, gregs signature and the creators sig.
-Print run - small but at least 40 so people can get the same number every time. I like #10's, greg likes 40s etc.
-Auction Copy - #25 is auctioned with proceeds going to this board.
-A little creator pizzaz - some originality from the creator.
-Valiant Talent - the blessing and hard work of some very talented former valiant employees (jayjay, layton, perlin, shooter and BWS)

This great offering had some of these traits BUT not all. The creator purposely changed the COA, purposely renamed the series, purposely choose a VH2 book, purposely limited them to 25. This is no differnet than Petralaks Unity Files or Dans Turok print set. It's damn cool but its not a vcvss.

Gregs EW#5 follows most if not all those traits BUT he said himself it was more an anniversary commemrative that took the same shape as a VcVSS than a VcVSS. He even said, I think, its like what Bloodshot #6 or XO database is to the VVSS's - its a VcVSS related item.

For what its worth, in my mind there have only been TWO (2) VcVSS so far. Two books whose preplanning, execution, idea and distribution reach such high standards for me (determined by the amount of time I spent drooling about them) that I would consider them worthy of Valiant, of this board and this magnificant community.

but thats just me.

Valiant_1 · Post by **Valiant_1** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:28 pm

Thanks for the clear-up Greg!
WOW! This has heated up a bit since last night!

I understand that it wasn't very cool to not give advance notice to the book being offered, but even if I did, there still would have been someone upset because they couldn't get it.

How about if next time there is a vague timeframe, say "The book will be posted for sale sometime between such and such date, and you'll have to keep checking back."

Greg suggested the format should follow SonicDan's format of the TUROK card set. It does NOT have a VcVSS COA, as shown on the post, but it is V2, and not Valiant. I don't think it's any less important as the other signed books though. Maybe not as sought after, but I was proud to do it, if onyl to help with Greg's site.

Anyway, if anyone isn't pleased with the fact that the COA doesn't match, you are MORE than welcome to cancel and get money back. I don't wish to make anyone unhappy with the book, and it's all good. Shoot me an e-mail if anyone doesn't want theirs. No harm on foul.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:57 pm

For the record I think that this is a great project. Super. Everyone involved will probably be very happy. I just needed to clear a few things up. I also didnt want this to be a precident, so I thought that I would say something. Anyway congrats to all involved it looks great...

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:04 pm

I'll be happy to get mine!!

I'm one of the few that liked some of the Acclaim stuff!

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:40 pm

i'm looking forward to mine as well...i'm not a big fan of the vh2 stuff, but i dig sean chen's art so much i jumped on this.

got #7 comin' baby!

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:21 pm

So , what's the pecking order for the next VcVVss or non-VcVss?
First come first serve? Or based on seniority?
There has to be guide lines or all hell is going to break loose.