Virgin Comics

[ManofTheAtom]

Any opinions about what's happened with Virgin Comics, and possible theories as how, if at all, it might affect VALIANT?

[JustCallMeAric]

All I know is that I love Richard Branson. What happened?

[ManofTheAtom]

All I know is that I love Richard Branson. What happened?

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.ph ... 5&id=59153

Virgin Comics, a collaboration between Virgin Books and India-based comics publisher Gotham Entertainment, announced on Aug. 27 that it is closing its New York offices and will reorganize its operations, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

Citing "the current macro-economic downturn," the company, under CEO Sharad Devarajan and president Suresh Seetharaman, said it hopes to restructure the business and consolidate its operations in Los Angeles.

The partnership between Sir Richard Branson, Deepak Chopra and director Shekhar Kapur was launched in 2006 with a series of comics inspired by Indian/Hindu mythology. It later moved into a line known as Director's Cut, which attempted to lure filmmakers into the comic world in the hopes of subsequently getting the books set up as film projects.

Some of the contributors to the line include Guy Ritchie, John Woo, Nicolas Cage, Ed Burns and musician Dave Stewart. A feature adaptation of Ritchie's comic The Gamekeeper is currently in development at Warner Brothers.

Despite the slick look of the comics, the titles have suffered low sales and Virgin remains a marginal publisher in the comic-book arena. The future of the film projects is unclear, though the company did say it would not remain idle.

[Zaphod]

Sounds like a victim of a conglomorate downsizing to me. I don't think this is indicative of anything specific to the comicbook industry except that comics (for the most part) are a luxury and with the economy the way it is, luxuries tend to get axed first.

I've already been under the belief that now is a difficult time for Valiant to try and launch anything massive...and at the same time to try and secure rackspace can't go too small.

Knowing nothing about the behind-the-scenes and inner workings of producing, marketing and selling funny books I would hope VEI explores any and every option to remain viable. Up to (and including) exploring a publishing agreement with a currently established publisher & E-comics.

[superman-prime]

dang it they had a few good things, maybee dark horse will buy their properties

[Eternalwarrior68]

Never read any of the Virgin books, where they any good?

[ManofTheAtom]

Never read any of the Virgin books, where they any good?

I got their FCBD offering, butI never got around to read it, and the Devi/Witchblade crossover. That one was very well done.

Did Virgin have a character universe, or just concepts based on Hindu mythology that never interacted with each other?

[robb77]

Never read any of the Virgin books, where they any good?

I got their FCBD offering, butI never got around to read it, and the Devi/Witchblade crossover. That one was very well done.

Did Virgin have a character universe, or just concepts based on Hindu mythology that never interacted with each other?

from what ive seen i think they are individual stories and they dont interact with each other

[ManofTheAtom]

Never read any of the Virgin books, where they any good?

I got their FCBD offering, butI never got around to read it, and the Devi/Witchblade crossover. That one was very well done.

Did Virgin have a character universe, or just concepts based on Hindu mythology that never interacted with each other?

from what ive seen i think they are individual stories and they dont interact with each other

That's what I thought.

[Cyberstrike]

Never read any of the Virgin books, where they any good?

I got their FCBD offering, butI never got around to read it, and the Devi/Witchblade crossover. That one was very well done.

Did Virgin have a character universe, or just concepts based on Hindu mythology that never interacted with each other?

from what ive seen i think they are individual stories and they dont interact with each other

That's what I thought.

TBPH I think that Virgin Comics were doomed from the start, a good portion of their titles were from India with no known creators and characters to appeal to US readers and titles like Dan Dare a little known to US readers character would have been sold on the creator's name rather than on the character.

VEI does have some name value it's characters the only problem is that many retailers and fans don't have fond memories of Valiant Comics.

[JustCallMeAric]

Most of the retailers that I talk to are excited about VEI. I hope it spreads

[ManofTheAtom]

Never read any of the Virgin books, where they any good?

I got their FCBD offering, butI never got around to read it, and the Devi/Witchblade crossover. That one was very well done.

Did Virgin have a character universe, or just concepts based on Hindu mythology that never interacted with each other?

from what ive seen i think they are individual stories and they dont interact with each other

That's what I thought.

TBPH I think that Virgin Comics were doomed from the start, a good portion of their titles were from India with no known creators and characters to appeal to US readers and titles like Dan Dare a little known to US readers character would have been sold on the creator's name rather than on the character.

VEI does have some name value it's characters the only problem is that many retailers and fans don't have fond memories of Valiant Comics.

Are all comic book retailers in operation today the same ones that were in operation 16 years ago, or have there been ones that opened since then that might be run by VALIANT fans who might support VEI?

[Geomancer]

This is a good question that I'm surprised the major comics new channels haven't gotten into more.

I think Virgin's troubles call into question the non-superhero comic book market. The market exists, but evidently not in enough numbers.

It raises interesting questions about all-new characters in the coic book marketplace, too.

I don't think Virgin's situation affects VEI because VEI seems to be headed towards an interconnected superhero universe that has some pre-existing popular characters.

As long as VEI puts out books of noticeably higher quality writing than its competitors, it will do well. While i personally enjoy classic marvel and DC charcaters, I sense that - as when VALIANT debuted, there is a significant number of fans looking for something new they can get on the ground floor with.

If VEI can tap into that, then they can make a real dent in the comic book marketplace - something Virgin never did.

Its a shame Virgin wasn't able to make it - I think it could have brought in genuinely new readers to the marketplace.

[Cyberstrike]

Never read any of the Virgin books, where they any good?

I got their FCBD offering, butI never got around to read it, and the Devi/Witchblade crossover. That one was very well done.

Did Virgin have a character universe, or just concepts based on Hindu mythology that never interacted with each other?

from what ive seen i think they are individual stories and they dont interact with each other

That's what I thought.

TBPH I think that Virgin Comics were doomed from the start, a good portion of their titles were from India with no known creators and characters to appeal to US readers and titles like Dan Dare a little known to US readers character would have been sold on the creator's name rather than on the character.

VEI does have some name value it's characters the only problem is that many retailers and fans don't have fond memories of Valiant Comics.

Are all comic book retailers in operation today the same ones that were in operation 16 years ago, or have there been ones that opened since then that might be run by VALIANT fans who might support VEI?

Around here in Indianapolis we have basically 2 comic book store chains, Downtown Comics and Comic Carnival, both of them were around when the market busted and at one Comic Carnival store I was at back in May, I asked if they had copy of X-O Manowar: Birth and the guy told me that they were scared to order new Valiant Comics because of the supposed role that they played in the glut and didn't order any more than 2 copies of the book and once they were sold that they wouldn't order anymore unless someone that was good regular customer special ordered one from them.

The Comic Carnival chain has been around for over 20 years and it's a safe bet that the store owners lost a lot of money with Valiant Comics the last time around and so they naturally very leery (and they might still have some strong negative feelings towards them). Downtown Comics being a little over 10 years old I THINK is also leery of Valiant due to the glut and their perceived role in it. But this just idle speculation on my part though.

[nutflush76]

I think that the Virgin line was a stupid idea at the outset and then when they tried to get the movie properties going they already had a less than desireable reputation.

I mean really, who wants to read a comic by Deepak Chopra?

As far as all of the comic book stores being around when Valiant went under.

That's tough to answer.

There are a few of them and there are also a few that have come after. As far as retailers not ordering books because of the role that Valiant played in their downfall, well that's just stupid.

The reason Valiant led to retailers going out of business was because those retailers got greedy and ordered hundreds of copies of single issues hoping to get the speculators to buy them. Buying 5 or 10 copies of a new series isn't going to make the comic book industry collapse all over again. Refusing to buy the new series because of what happened in the past shows that you learned nothing from what you did before.

[Zaphod]

The reason Valiant led to retailers going out of business was because those retailers got greedy and ordered hundreds of copies of single issues hoping to get the speculators to buy them. Buying 5 or 10 copies of a new series isn't going to make the comic book industry collapse all over again. Refusing to buy the new series because of what happened in the past shows that you learned nothing from what you did before.

Agreed, Valiant is hardly to blame for what happend in the 90's. Did they contribute? As much as DC, Marvel or Image did. Individual comic retailers got greedy and got burned.

At the same time I don't blame them for not wanting to order large numbers of Valiant right now. Valiant needs to prove themselves all over again.

[ManofTheAtom]

But see, that makes no sense whatsoever.

The people that own the VALIANT characters today (VALIANT Entertainment Inc) are not the same people that owned them in the 90's (Voyager Comunications Inc and later Acclaim Entertainment Inc), just like the people that own the Marvel characters today (Isaac Perlmutter and Avi Arad - though I'm not completely sure that they are still the owners -) are not the same people that owned them in the 90's (Ronald Perelman).

These companies are managed differently than they were in the 90's, though in the case of VALIANT we're talking about a completely different company completely.

None of the people that were involved with the gimmicks of the 90's work at this company today.

[UnknownTales]

The government owns us all.

[depluto]

Comics for virgins? Seems like it would be a popular idea judging from the last con I attended.

[J-Scott-R]

Comics for virgins? Seems like it would be a popular idea judging from the last con I attended.

[Steve Topper]

But see, that makes no sense whatsoever.

The people that own the VALIANT characters today (VALIANT Entertainment Inc) are not the same people that owned them in the 90's (Voyager Comunications Inc and later Acclaim Entertainment Inc), just like the people that own the Marvel characters today (Isaac Perlmutter and Avi Arad - though I'm not completely sure that they are still the owners -) are not the same people that owned them in the 90's (Ronald Perelman).

These companies are managed differently than they were in the 90's, though in the case of VALIANT we're talking about a completely different company completely.

None of the people that were involved with the gimmicks of the 90's work at this company today.

You're making a huge assumption that the retailers in question even care about the management teams and philosophies. You do, it's apparent. I do and so does just about everyone on THIS board. But we're the cream of the crop -- we want new, good Valiant stories.

The retailers, on the other hand, don't care about the Kothari Group and VEI. They see X-O Manowar; they see Harbinger; they see Shadowman -- and because of that -- they see the 90s all over again. Logical? No. But it's a reality and a very stark one at that. It's something VEI is going to have carefully overcome. Is it right? Probably not. But it is a gut reaction many retailers have. Hopefully, it's a raction VEI will overcome. Slow and steady!!!

[robb77]

But see, that makes no sense whatsoever.

The people that own the VALIANT characters today (VALIANT Entertainment Inc) are not the same people that owned them in the 90's (Voyager Comunications Inc and later Acclaim Entertainment Inc), just like the people that own the Marvel characters today (Isaac Perlmutter and Avi Arad - though I'm not completely sure that they are still the owners -) are not the same people that owned them in the 90's (Ronald Perelman).

These companies are managed differently than they were in the 90's, though in the case of VALIANT we're talking about a completely different company completely.
None of the people that were involved with the gimmicks of the 90's work at this company today.

You're making a huge assumption that the retailers in question even care about the management teams and philosophies. You do, it's apparent. I do and so does just about everyone on THIS board. But we're the cream of the crop -- we want new, good Valiant stories.

The retailers, on the other hand, don't care about the Kothari Group and VEI. They see X-O Manowar; they see Harbinger; they see Shadowman -- and because of that -- they see the 90s all over again. Logical? No. But it's a reality and a very stark one at that. It's something VEI is going to have carefully overcome. Is it right? Probably not. But it is a gut reaction many retailers have. Hopefully, it's a raction VEI will overcome. Slow and steady!!!

[ManofTheAtom]

But see, that makes no sense whatsoever.

The people that own the VALIANT characters today (VALIANT Entertainment Inc) are not the same people that owned them in the 90's (Voyager Comunications Inc and later Acclaim Entertainment Inc), just like the people that own the Marvel characters today (Isaac Perlmutter and Avi Arad - though I'm not completely sure that they are still the owners -) are not the same people that owned them in the 90's (Ronald Perelman).

These companies are managed differently than they were in the 90's, though in the case of VALIANT we're talking about a completely different company completely.

None of the people that were involved with the gimmicks of the 90's work at this company today.

You're making a huge assumption that the retailers in question even care about the management teams and philosophies. You do, it's apparent. I do and so does just about everyone on THIS board. But we're the cream of the crop -- we want new, good Valiant stories.

The retailers, on the other hand, don't care about the Kothari Group and VEI. They see X-O Manowar; they see Harbinger; they see Shadowman -- and because of that -- they see the 90s all over again. Logical? No. But it's a reality and a very stark one at that. It's something VEI is going to have carefully overcome. Is it right? Probably not. But it is a gut reaction many retailers have. Hopefully, it's a raction VEI will overcome. Slow and steady!!!

It is my understanding that there are days during SDCC and other conventions throughout the years where retailers get to meet with publishers to discuss over issues.

It is during those meetings that retailers get to interact with the Kothari Group (aka VEI) - and viceversa - and they are told how this VALIANT is different from the original.

It's not like retailers are in a blind spot and the only info they have comes from Previews (i.e. the solicits). They actually get to interact directly with the publishers during those conventions.

[Steve Topper]

It is my understanding that there are days during SDCC and other conventions throughout the years where retailers get to meet with publishers to discuss over issues.

It is during those meetings that retailers get to interact with the Kothari Group (aka VEI) - and viceversa - and they are told how this VALIANT is different from the original.

It's not like retailers are in a blind spot and the only info they have comes from Previews (i.e. the solicits). They actually get to interact directly with the publishers during those conventions.

Agreed, but many retailers don't attend conventions. My LCS, for example, goes only to one or two local shows a year. He doesn't go to SDCC, WizardWorld Chicago, or NY Comicon. He reads news and stuff via the internet and uses Previews and Diamond extensively, and has to make hard value judgments. And I consider my LCS a very enlightened shop. He carries the VEI hardcovers. He will order books that customers request. But, given the current economic climate in Ohio, he doesn't speculate much on unproven commodities. He can't afford to.

I do my part by pre-ordering the VEI HCs from him. I could get them cheaper from online sources, but if I do that, I'm effectively telling him not to order VEI. Why? Because I've found a cheaper, online source that doesn't have the overhead and costs he incurs. And he can't afford to speculate that somebody else will casually drop in and ask for a VEI book.

Remember, the majority of retailers being discussed are not the Chuck Rozanskis and Buddy Saunders. They are small businesses with limited profit margins. Do I hope and wish they would take that kind of a chance on VEI? Of course. But right now, all they have to base their judgments on are two published HCs and one planned. They don't have the insight or knowledge of the inner workings of VEI. They read the press releases and they sound like the press releases for every other fledging comic company.

And did VEI attend SDCC this year? I was under the impression they didn't. but that is based on no VEI announcements. I don't remember anybody mentioning even a VEI booth this year or even last year. I'll defer to you on that as I didn't go to SDCC and you did.

[ManofTheAtom]

It is my understanding that there are days during SDCC and other conventions throughout the years where retailers get to meet with publishers to discuss over issues.

It is during those meetings that retailers get to interact with the Kothari Group (aka VEI) - and viceversa - and they are told how this VALIANT is different from the original.

It's not like retailers are in a blind spot and the only info they have comes from Previews (i.e. the solicits). They actually get to interact directly with the publishers during those conventions.

Agreed, but many retailers don't attend conventions. My LCS, for example, goes only to one or two local shows a year. He doesn't go to SDCC, WizardWorld Chicago, or NY Comicon. He reads news and stuff via the internet and uses Previews and Diamond extensively, and has to make hard value judgments. And I consider my LCS a very enlightened shop. He carries the VEI hardcovers. He will order books that customers request. But, given the current economic climate in Ohio, he doesn't speculate much on unproven commodities. He can't afford to.

I do my part by pre-ordering the VEI HCs from him. I could get them cheaper from online sources, but if I do that, I'm effectively telling him not to order VEI. Why? Because I've found a cheaper, online source that doesn't have the overhead and costs he incurs. And he can't afford to speculate that somebody else will casually drop in and ask for a VEI book.

Remember, the majority of retailers being discussed are not the Chuck Rozanskis and Buddy Saunders. They are small businesses with limited profit margins. Do I hope and wish they would take that kind of a chance on VEI? Of course. But right now, all they have to base their judgments on are two published HCs and one planned. They don't have the insight or knowledge of the inner workings of VEI. They read the press releases and they sound like the press releases for every other fledging comic company.

And did VEI attend SDCC this year? I was under the impression they didn't. but that is based on no VEI announcements. I don't remember anybody mentioning even a VEI booth this year or even last year. I'll defer to you on that as I didn't go to SDCC and you did.

Keep in mind that the booths are done for the publisher to interact with the readers and sell their product.

VEI only has two products out right now, so there really was no justification for them to get a booth.

It is my undertanding that Dinesh and Jason were in SDCC. Doing what, I don't know, but it's safe to assume that it was important behind the scenes stuff, like maybe talk with retailers and pros.