Can anyone tell me how Aric Dacia Dies in X-O Manowar Book68

[X-O HoboJoe]

PG has no bearing on VEI except as a possible path to take, one I strongly disagree with as the "Cosmic Being who comes to make everything better" solution has already been done in comics one too many times.

Sounds like MOTA woke up on the wrong side of the goat this morning . . .

You should ask yourself this: If it is really such a powerful cosmic being, why is it doing what it's doing? Not all that powerful or cosmic.

[ManofTheAtom]

PG has no bearing on VEI except as a possible path to take, one I strongly disagree with as the "Cosmic Being who comes to make everything better" solution has already been done in comics one too many times.

Sounds like MOTA woke up on the wrong side of the goat this morning . . .

You should ask yourself this: If it is really such a powerful cosmic being, why is it doing what it's doing? Not all that powerful or cosmic.

The only question I have is where the notion that PG has any bearing on the published comics came from.

It's a good self contained comic, but what makes it more valid than Solar 2004 or Petrilak's take on the 99 event?

Whatever happens in the story is contained to your story, just like every other fic that has been written in the last 10 years, but for some reason people think that you're doing something official that will be used in the comics.

[X-O HoboJoe]

PG has no bearing on VEI except as a possible path to take, one I strongly disagree with as the "Cosmic Being who comes to make everything better" solution has already been done in comics one too many times.

Sounds like MOTA woke up on the wrong side of the goat this morning . . .

You should ask yourself this: If it is really such a powerful cosmic being, why is it doing what it's doing? Not all that powerful or cosmic.

The only question I have is where the notion that PG has any bearing on the published comics came from.

It's a good self contained comic, but what makes it more valid than Solar 2004 or Petrilak's take on the 99 event?

Whatever happens in the story is contained to your story, just like every other fic that has been written in the last 10 years, but for some reason people think that you're doing something official that will be used in the comics.

Well, the source is from VH1 alone, if that helps.

As far as what we're doing, I guess the only thing we want to accomplish is to get fellow Valiant nuts excited again about what's about to happen. Will the story ever wind up in cannon? I don't know . . . there are some things that have happened and will happen that may actually prevent that from being possible. I suppose some of what happens may one day find a way into anything new that's done, but really that's up to VEI and I hope there to be something they can eventually use.

There is definite reason we're using the characters that have been shown (I can't draw anyone else! ) If you'll notice, most of the "Big Guns" are absent . . .

[Xanithar]

I agree with Manoftheatom, that If Valiant returns, it shouldn't be something magical or Godlike. That is over done.

Maybe some sensible answer to where some of the strongest characters survived. If they absolutely had to use the GOD Scenario, maybe Solar could have transported them somewhere safe as it looked like they were dying.

But the Human Solution sounds better. Surviving the destruction on their own behalfs. Or Perhaps the Chaos Effect was nothing more than one Huge Illusion to making the characters thinking they were really dying, which put them into a sort of Stasis, in some Grand scheme by Spider ALiens who have spent many years to find ways to gather all the hero's and extract their powers. (Hey, just a thought, lol! )

[ManofTheAtom]

PG has no bearing on VEI except as a possible path to take, one I strongly disagree with as the "Cosmic Being who comes to make everything better" solution has already been done in comics one too many times.

Sounds like MOTA woke up on the wrong side of the goat this morning . . .

You should ask yourself this: If it is really such a powerful cosmic being, why is it doing what it's doing? Not all that powerful or cosmic.

The only question I have is where the notion that PG has any bearing on the published comics came from.

It's a good self contained comic, but what makes it more valid than Solar 2004 or Petrilak's take on the 99 event?

Whatever happens in the story is contained to your story, just like every other fic that has been written in the last 10 years, but for some reason people think that you're doing something official that will be used in the comics.

Well, the source is from *VALIANT (1991-1996)* alone, if that helps.

As far as what we're doing, I guess the only thing we want to accomplish is to get fellow Valiant nuts excited again about what's about to happen. Will the story ever wind up in cannon? I don't know . . . there are some things that have happened and will happen that may actually prevent that from being possible. I suppose some of what happens may one day find a way into anything new that's done, but really that's up to VEI and I hope there to be something they can eventually use.

There is definite reason we're using the characters that have been shown (I can't draw anyone else! ) If you'll notice, most of the "Big Guns" are absent . . .

All fic writers hope that publishers might use their ideas, but what I'm asking is, is PG a VEI project or a fan fic project?

It's cool if it's just a fic project, that doesn't diminish it in the least, it's just that some people are of the idea that it's a VEI project.

[X-O HoboJoe]

PG has no bearing on VEI except as a possible path to take, one I strongly disagree with as the "Cosmic Being who comes to make everything better" solution has already been done in comics one too many times.

Sounds like MOTA woke up on the wrong side of the goat this morning . . .

You should ask yourself this: If it is really such a powerful cosmic being, why is it doing what it's doing? Not all that powerful or cosmic.

The only question I have is where the notion that PG has any bearing on the published comics came from.

It's a good self contained comic, but what makes it more valid than Solar 2004 or Petrilak's take on the 99 event?

Whatever happens in the story is contained to your story, just like every other fic that has been written in the last 10 years, but for some reason people think that you're doing something official that will be used in the comics.

Well, the source is from *VALIANT (1991-1996)* alone, if that helps.

As far as what we're doing, I guess the only thing we want to accomplish is to get fellow Valiant nuts excited again about what's about to happen. Will the story ever wind up in cannon? I don't know . . . there are some things that have happened and will happen that may actually prevent that from being possible. I suppose some of what happens may one day find a way into anything new that's done, but really that's up to VEI and I hope there to be something they can eventually use.

There is definite reason we're using the characters that have been shown (I can't draw anyone else! ) If you'll notice, most of the "Big Guns" are absent . . .

All fic writers hope that publishers might use their ideas, but what I'm asking is, is PG a VEI project or a fan fic project?

It's cool if it's just a fic project, that doesn't diminish it in the least, it's just that some people are of the idea that it's a VEI project.

Man, I really don't know how to answer that . . . I guess the best answer is that if VEI wants it once it's done it's already theirs.

Our purpose is to stir up intrest in the people that once read Valiant to aid in facilitating the characters returning.

[BloodOfHeroes]

Doug Freedman hired Sister Serenity to kidnap Ken Clarkson and then he used what he learned from him to capture Aric in a virtual reality scenario in which his daughter took on the persona of Crescendo to mess with his head while Doug used his knowledge of genetic engineering to try to replicate the Good Skin.

snip

That's an extremely simple solution that doesn't require God-like powers.

It's far from "extremely simple" and there's not one whit of canon to support it. VR wasn't that developed in VALIANT continuity (or the world outside my window), and using genertic engineering to replicate the good skin is a deliberate swipe from VH-2 X-O.

PLAYING GOD, on the other hand, respects what came before it and builds on it. You know, like good literature ought.

Given that VH-1 started with the interference of "god," the appearance of a highly powered being trying to set things right is very much in line with what VALIANT was founded on and continued to develop.

[Elveen]

I am not sure what I think about all of this.


But I do know this.

If I was a just hired as new football head coach. Should I feel any need to keep the all of the same plays? Can't I put my own plays in?

If I buy a business, do I need to run it exactly the same way? If I had an employee that sucked and was not getting the job done.... can't I get rid of him?


I am not saying VEI should do anything..... I am just saying that I am open to whatever they do.

And it will be fact..... that whatever they do...... will be VALIANT.


We might not like it.... or maybe we'll love it..... but regardless of my/our opinions.... it will be VALIANT.




You know.... reading this and thinking of all the posts we have had that are similar...... came across this thought.....

one thing I love about Sandman is that everything is not explained. Gamian does not connect all of the dots for us. He does not feel a need to have every loose end tied up.

I like that. Maybe VEI will just start with new books, books that are well written and thought out and connected and clever and all of that, with great art and inking and lettering and coloring... and all of that. Any maybe Jack will be Shadowman....... and they will never address Rai #0 or Shadowman #43, there will just be new Shadowman stories.

I don't think I need everything explained and cleaned up right away... if ever.

I just want new stories with the characters I love. Stories that capture the imagination.


And hopefully don't cost $3 a pop.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's far from "extremely simple" and there's not one whit of canon to support it. VR wasn't that developed in VALIANT continuity (or the world outside my window), and using genertic engineering to replicate the good skin is a deliberate swipe from VH-2 X-O.

The VU had alien tech. The world outside our window doesn't.

Why is it that people have a hard time grasping that "world outside our window" does NOT mean "carbon copy of the world outside our window", but that it means that it is SET in a world outside our window that INCLUDES the elements from the comics that we see in them, like Darque Power and alien tech?

Doug Freedman had a connection to the Spider-Aliens. The virtual reality tech could be theirs, not something that is bought on Radio Shack.

Btw, in Solar we saw what virtual reality was like in the VU. It would NOT be that far fetched for Doug Freedman to enhance it using alien tech.

FAR FROM IT.

It, being the VALIANT UNIVERSE, and NOT DC or Marvel, Doug could be using the EXACT SAME machine that Solar used to contact the Destroyer, a machine that was not only touched by Solar's energies, but also the alien entity's.

Given that VH-1 started with the interference of "god," the appearance of a highly powered being trying to set things right is very much in line with what VALIANT was founded on and continued to develop.

Except that it's also a comic book cliche, and a bad one.

Having a God like being come in and snap his fingers so that things after Chaos Effect or Birthquake didn't happen is bs.

[ManofTheAtom]

I am not sure what I think about all of this.

But I do know this.

If I was a just hired as new football head coach. Should I feel any need to keep the all of the same plays? Can't I put my own plays in?

If I buy a business, do I need to run it exactly the same way? If I had an employee that sucked and was not getting the job done.... can't I get rid of him?

I am not saying VEI should do anything..... I am just saying that I am open to whatever they do.

And it will be fact..... that whatever they do...... will be VALIANT.

We might not like it.... or maybe we'll love it..... but regardless of my/our opinions.... it will be VALIANT.

You know.... reading this and thinking of all the posts we have had that are similar...... came across this thought.....

one thing I love about Sandman is that everything is not explained. Gamian does not connect all of the dots for us. He does not feel a need to have every loose end tied up.

Right. DON'T do things like DC and Marvel, and have a God-like character or a Devil-like character snap his fingers to fix things.

Instead do it like VALIANT did it, using CONTINUITY and what came before.

I like that. Maybe VEI will just start with new books, books that are well written and thought out and connected and clever and all of that, with great art and inking and lettering and coloring... and all of that. Any maybe Jack will be Shadowman....... and they will never address Rai #0 or Shadowman #43, there will just be new Shadowman stories.

I don't think I need everything explained and cleaned up right away... if ever.

I just want new stories with the characters I love. Stories that capture the imagination.


And hopefully don't cost $3 a pop.

VALIANT is not Sandman.

Sandman did things its way, VALIANT did things its way.

[etos45]

VEI is not DC, Marvel, or Star Wars. VEI is the newest incarnation of VALIANT, and as such it should be judged on the same principles as the VALIANT Universe.

I don't care how you may compare VEI to what they're not, I'm still saying that if you set your expectations too high, you're going to hate whatever VEI does... no matter how good it may be, it won't be good enough.

Like Memento, right? Man, that movie sucked.../sarcasm

Sometimes it's not about knowing who wins the race, but how they getthere.

It may not always be about who wins the race, but what would be the point in watching every race if you knew exactly who was going to win and how every single time. Like I said before... if someone tells you the end to every movie before you see it, you're not going to enjoy it as much and the plot twist will have no effect on you. Kind of like the John G thing in Momento. What would be the fun if you already knew?

[ManofTheAtom]

VEI is not DC, Marvel, or Star Wars. VEI is the newest incarnation of VALIANT, and as such it should be judged on the same principles as the VALIANT Universe.

I don't care how you may compare VEI to what they're not, I'm still saying that if you set your expectations too high, you're going to hate whatever VEI does... no matter how good it may be, it won't be good enough.

Like Memento, right? Man, that movie sucked.../sarcasm

Sometimes it's not about knowing who wins the race, but how they getthere.

It may not always be about who wins the race, but what would be the point in watching every race if you knew exactly who was going to win and how every single time. Like I said before... if someone tells you the end to every movie before you see it, you're not going to enjoy it as much and the plot twist will have no effect on you. Kind of like the John G thing in Momento. What would be the fun if you already knew?

Movies run two hrs, at most.

The comics VALIANT was plotting to do were designed to run for 30 years (in the case of Archer), 7 years (in the case of Shadowman), 40 years in the case of Bloodshot, and so on and so forth, from their first appearance to their death.

Sure, you knew Archer was going to die in 2020, but that was 30 years away, so it didn't matter, you were going to read what was going to happen BETWEEN points A and B. That was what mattered, to know how he went from what he was in Point A to what he became in Point B.

PLUS, we know he dies, but we don't know HOW he dies.

And that applies to all of them except Bloodshot, who we know Ax shot.

How did Archer die? We know it was while saving Aram from Harada, but nothing else.

How did Jack die? Same issue. We know what he was doing, but we don't know anything else.

[X-O HoboJoe]

Instead do it like VALIANT did it, using CONTINUITY and what came before.

Which is what we're doing with Playing God.

[ManofTheAtom]

Instead do it like VALIANT did it, using CONTINUITY and what came before.

Which is what we're doing with Playing God.

I don't doubt it.

I've seen tons of VALIANT fan fic that used continuity.

Is PG ff or a comic that VEI will publish and use to build their new continuity?

[X-O HoboJoe]

Instead do it like VALIANT did it, using CONTINUITY and what came before.

Which is what we're doing with Playing God.

I don't doubt it.

I've seen tons of VALIANT fan fic that used continuity.

Is PG ff or a comic that VEI will publish and use to build their new continuity?

Until further notice, I'd consider it non-canonical marketing for VEI.

[Xanithar]

VEI is not DC, Marvel, or Star Wars. VEI is the newest incarnation of VALIANT, and as such it should be judged on the same principles as the VALIANT Universe.

I don't care how you may compare VEI to what they're not, I'm still saying that if you set your expectations too high, you're going to hate whatever VEI does... no matter how good it may be, it won't be good enough.

I like the quote above. If you pre-conceive everything, it is going to suck for what you imagined it should be. Well just have to wait and see what happens. I'm sure the stories will be good and original. Valiant isn't going to invest money to watch it fall in the toilet again as Acclaim did to their name.

[ManofTheAtom]

VEI is not DC, Marvel, or Star Wars. VEI is the newest incarnation of VALIANT, and as such it should be judged on the same principles as the VALIANT Universe.

I don't care how you may compare VEI to what they're not, I'm still saying that if you set your expectations too high, you're going to hate whatever VEI does... no matter how good it may be, it won't be good enough.

I like the quote above. If you pre-conceive everything, it is going to suck for what you imagined it should be. Well just have to wait and see what happens. I'm sure the stories will be good and original. Valiant isn't going to invest money to watch it fall in the toilet again as Acclaim did to their name.

The misconception is that any judgement about VEI is a pre-conception.

It's not, since we already have the two hardcovers to know what they're doing, and that's tell VALIANT stories in the VALIANT style.

[etos45]

Movies run two hrs, at most.

Lord of the Rings.

The comics VALIANT was plotting to do were designed to run for 30 years (in the case of Archer), 7 years (in the case of Shadowman), 40 years in the case of Bloodshot, and so on and so forth, from their first appearance to their death.

Sure, you knew Archer was going to die in 2020, but that was 30 years away, so it didn't matter, you were going to read what was going to happen BETWEEN points A and B. That was what mattered, to know how he went from what he was in Point A to what he became in Point B.

PLUS, we know he dies, but we don't know HOW he dies.

And that applies to all of them except Bloodshot, who we know Ax shot.

How did Archer die? We know it was while saving Aram from Harada, but nothing else.

How did Jack die? Same issue. We know what he was doing, but we don't know anything else.

I was pretty much thinking of Bloodshot when I said when and how etc etc etc. I have no complaints with the fact that they would plot out their stories for 7-40 years, but I just don't know how I feel about KNOWING it. Seeing the journey is interesting, but for me, not knowing the future makes it even more interesting... because anything could happen. Archer could turn out to be gay and marry Armstrong and then they could both die in a Titanic scenario.... but now, thanks to Rai #0, that wonderful story can never be told.

[ManofTheAtom]

Movies run two hrs, at most.

Lord of the Rings.

The comics VALIANT was plotting to do were designed to run for 30 years (in the case of Archer), 7 years (in the case of Shadowman), 40 years in the case of Bloodshot, and so on and so forth, from their first appearance to their death.

Sure, you knew Archer was going to die in 2020, but that was 30 years away, so it didn't matter, you were going to read what was going to happen BETWEEN points A and B. That was what mattered, to know how he went from what he was in Point A to what he became in Point B.

PLUS, we know he dies, but we don't know HOW he dies.

And that applies to all of them except Bloodshot, who we know Ax shot.

How did Archer die? We know it was while saving Aram from Harada, but nothing else.

How did Jack die? Same issue. We know what he was doing, but we don't know anything else.

I was pretty much thinking of Bloodshot when I said when and how etc etc etc. I have no complaints with the fact that they would plot out their stories for 7-40 years, but I just don't know how I feel about KNOWING it. Seeing the journey is interesting, but for me, not knowing the future makes it even more interesting... because anything could happen. Archer could turn out to be gay and marry Armstrong and then they could both die in a Titanic scenario.... but now, thanks to Rai #0, that wonderful story can never be told.

There is nothing wrong with having stories that have a beginning, middle, and end.

The "anything can happen" model has resulted in most DC and Marvel characters rotting into repetitive bs.

How many times can these characters do the same things over and over again until people stop giving a damn?

With the VALIANT model, at least there is a goal to reach, the stories have an ending.

I've learned that once a story's ending has been decided, what happesn before it is easier to lay out because you already know what you're working towards.

It bears to note that, despite Rai #0, a lot of stuff happened to the VALIANT heroes that we didn't see coming.

Did you expect Bloodshot to be blown up in the Artic during a battle with a nanite-monster from the future?

I didn't.

Did you expect Jack to jump from a building to his apparent death?

I didn't.

Did you expect Aric to discover that everything he lived through in the 20th Century was a dream?

I didn't.

Did you expect Archer and Armstrong to be sent to the Lost Land?

I didn't.

We know that they have to survive those ordeals so that they can later die as Rai #0 says. What we don't know is HOW they'll survive them.

You ask for the unexpected to happen, and it did, but since you didn't like it you want them to ignore it and try again.

I rather they keep these unexpected twists and resolve them so they can put the story back on track and we can see the characters die as depicted in Rai #0 (their deaths being the end of the story).

Hopefully, along the way, we'll see more twists like this ones that, seemingly, contradict Rai #0, but in the end are simple perils the heroes face between the start and end of their sagas.

[ManofTheAtom]

using genertic engineering to replicate the good skin is a deliberate swipe from VH-2 X-O.

From X-O Manowar 1/2 (strange that they call him Freedman here)

After the Shadowman crossover, X-O will be involved in a major storyline dealing with the attempted takeover of Orb Industries. The previous owner of Orb, Doug Freedman, who was introduced in issue #36, will be coming back to try to not only take over the company, but also clone the X-O armor. "He's a scientist who deals with genetics, and he also has a major conglomerate under him." As the story moves along, Gonzales will be dealing with Aric's relationship with both Randy and Ken Clarkson - Orb's head of operations - in significant ways. Ken has to make a decision as to whether his loyalties lie with Aric or Freedman, now that Ken's arm has completely regenerated, and Aric has no control over him.

"Randy and Aric kind of have it out, and decide if they should be friends or lovers, or not even talk to each other," Gonzalez says. Also, Lauren, the stripper from issue #5, will be returning to the series, to considerably worsen matters. This reunion will also give Rik Levins a chance to pencil another different character.

If anything, VH 2 swiped from VH 1, just like they swiped from everyone else.

Furthermore, the original solicit for the issue with Sister Serenity said that she worked for Doug. That was changed in the lettering to Crescendo when Birthquake happened.

[ManofTheAtom]

no magic doohickey that solves everything.

[Squirrel]

i thought dingos ate his face off as he slept

[dellamorte]

Damn. You know I've been begging for people to have an honest to god chat about our little story and it just has not happened. Until now.

I always knew mota would be the negative side of the conversation. Just call it a hunch. A few quick things.

1. Playing God walks a fine line on what it is and has a wide open door on what it might be. Is it fanfic? I don't think it can be. I didn't wake up one morning and decide to make a Valiant web comic. It was asked of us, if we could come up with a reoccurring web feature that would bring people back and keep Valiant on their minds. I (we) were not given any instruction on what to do. We are telling the story we created with very limited handcuffs on what we can do or who we can use. Could it be cannon one day? The door is open on that one. Maybe, maybe not.

2.

God-like beings just show up to snap their fingers and fix problems. Hence the term "deus ex machina".

All a God-like being would do is snap his fingers and make it so that so and so never happend and everything can go back to the status quo.

That's BORING.

Please read the story. From Playing God chapter one.

Clay: “You can’t just blink and change what you perceive is wrong. You are not God.”

God: “Such reckless use of power created this mess. Sadly you can't undo an eternity of errors by sweeping them under the rug. Too many innocents would suffer a fate not of their making. Justice must be delivered. I must pass judgment upon the errors."

If I wanted to just have God snap his fingers, what would the fun be in telling that story? There is motivation behind this character, dig for it and you might find it.

I'm (we're) not retconning anything. We are telling a Valiant story that the fans have not had a chance to read until now. Just a glimpse into what was a dark age in the Valiant timeline.

As for the FF movie reference. Just check here and compare the dates.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109770/

[ManofTheAtom]

Playing God walks a fine line on what it is and has a wide open door on what it might be. Is it fanfic? I don't think it can be. I didn't wake up one morning and decide to make a Valiant web comic. It was asked of us, if we could come up with a reoccurring web feature that would bring people back and keep Valiant on their minds. I (we) were not given any instruction on what to do. We are telling the story we created with very limited handcuffs on what we can do or who we can use. Could it be cannon one day? The door is open on that one. Maybe, maybe not.

Got it.

Please read the story. From Playing God chapter one.

Clay: “You can’t just blink and change what you perceive is wrong. You are not God.”

God: “Such reckless use of power created this mess. Sadly you can't undo an eternity of errors by sweeping them under the rug. Too many innocents would suffer a fate not of their making. Justice must be delivered. I must pass judgment upon the errors."

If I wanted to just have God snap his fingers, what would the fun be in telling that story? There is motivation behind this character, dig for it and you might find it.

I'm (we're) not retconning anything. We are telling a Valiant story that the fans have not had a chance to read until now. Just a glimpse into what was a dark age in the Valiant timeline.

Got it.

As for the FF movie reference. Just check here and compare the dates.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109770/

That one only came out in bootleg, though, heh. Very few people know it exists... but okay, let's say it counts.

[xodacia81]

Except that it's also a comic book cliche, and a bad one.

Having a God like being come in and snap his fingers so that things after Chaos Effect or Birthquake didn't happen is bs.

I would argue that:

1. Dino and Company can do whatever they want with these characters, but I have faith they won't mess it up.

2. ANY story can become ANYTHING through the power of COMPREHENSION. What do I mean by this? Any writer can have a "take" or "understanding". If I were to write 12 issue of a new series of my own creation and then say "yo, Mike, take it from here" (for the next12)...whatever and I do mean WHATEVER you wanted to do would then become "cannon" for that period. Let's say that when your run ended, I returned. I could then BUILD on your work IN ANY WAY I WANTED TO. Just because it wasn't how you thought it should play out, doesn't mean it isn't how it IS playing out. Now, to connect this to the VU.

3. The story for the dawn of the new VU could be that whatever caused all the wierdness for the titles around the time of BQ was not just the act of bad writing (although, imo, it was) but that there was a PURPOSE, one that, due to cancellation and the lack of solid editorial cooridination, never got told. NOW, the tale CAN be told. Into this the new writers can plug whatever they need IN ORDER to rescue things. Yes, they can still "use" BQ material, but they can do so in a variety of ways. For XO, it could all have been VR. For Solar, who is now gone..."The man in the red suit left and never came back". I don't know if they could get away with even that little bit, or if they would have to-as I think they have to find something to replace SOLAR-but...there are ways. Bloodshot could have had some sort of programming where he lived a nightmarish final few months and upon his "death"...well...how to say this...He never died. What we saw was "programming" which ended with his becoming a weapon for a government agency. Now, he's broken free of the programming and is trying to make up for lost time. These are just some examples of the sorts of things that they could do. As for the "binding event"...it could be whatever they want it to be, something which would respect what came before and allow new stories to be built. Who knows, maybe the even could even be used to explain why there is no Solar/Magnus/Turok, anymore. Something along the lines of, and this is very basic, just a ALONG THE LINES, mind you, of "everything went weird, the world isn't right, things are missing, nothing is the same anymore." Wait...isn't that sort of what parts of PG are doing?

4. I believe that it is possible to make silk out of the sows ear of BQ and that to show things as "not being real" isn't a copout, especially if it is done within the "ground rules" of VALIANT and somehow, maybe as "what you saw happening wasn't the WAY you thought it was happening." What I'm saying is, they can recast the stories and still "respect" what has come before. Being locked in by every detail is BAD. I'll give you an example. Take a look at Paul Revere's engraving of the Boston Massacre. Notice the little dog at the bottom. Notice how it was a nice spring day. Notice how the British officer in charge is IN FRONT of his men as they fire. Now realize this. The dog was not there. It was at NIGHT and it happened in the dead of winter. Captain Preston was shown in court to be standing BEHIND his men and incapable of having given the order to fire. What am I trying to say here? Wait...stop looking at the frame. Stop looking at the dog. And realize that the facts you THINK you know can, and are, very very often, not what you THINK they are. In order to come up with new stories which fit into VALIANT...certain things may have to give, but it doesn't mean there is a betrayal. It means, like in so many other things, that what you believed was true, wasn't. What if, say, DC did a storyline where Clark Kent discovered that Krypton didn't die the way he always thought it had? Yes, it was still destroyed, yes, he's the last of his kind, but new facts have surfaced. There's nothing WRONG with this. To ignore new evidence is stupid. If you are sitting on death row, but you KNOW you are innocent, do you just say "oh well, too bad. Guess I'm gonna die" or do you try to prove that you did not commit the crime you were charged with? And, when the evidence finally surfaces which would exhonerate you, do you tell the authorities "sorry, but you guys just didn't know about that before now. I guess that means it never really existed, so I guess I have to die." Nope. There are ways around the trash of BQ which, rather than destroying things, could enrich them. I don't know what VEI has planned, but the fact that so many possibilities exist is very enticing.