Can anyone tell me how Aric Dacia Dies in X-O Manowar Book68

[Xanithar]

This issue is hard to come by. Sooner or later I'm going to buy it. But I'm so curious how he dies.

[Elveen]

This issue is hard to come by. Sooner or later I'm going to buy it. But I'm so curious how he dies.

Don't you want to read it........

[ManofTheAtom]

This issue is hard to come by. Sooner or later I'm going to buy it. But I'm so curious how he dies.

Don't you want to read it........

He wants to, but it's hard to come by.

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/wik ... 93_Part_II

There's a summary of what happens in the issue for when you'd like to read it.

[Brother J]

I thought Aric died fighting Harada in the future as a naked old man?

[ManofTheAtom]

I thought Aric died fighting Harada in the future as a naked old man?

Yep.

Xanithar thinks that he died in 68 because he hasn't read it yet.

[Dr. Solar]

I thought Aric died fighting Harada in the future as a naked old man?

Yep.

Xanithar thinks that he died in 68 because he hasn't read it yet.

Keep dreaming

[dave]

isn't that the issue were the whole VU dies? (literally)

[ManofTheAtom]

isn't that the issue were the whole VU dies? (literally)

It's the issue where it was implied that it never existed, which was done as a springboard for Nicieza's pile of crap.

VEI could easily fix it.

[dave]

so you're saying i'm right, right?

[ManofTheAtom]

so you're saying i'm right, right?

In the sense that XO 68 was done to kill the VALIANT Universe to make way for Nicieza's Marvelized, DC-Lite version... yes.

In the sense that it has to stick in order to catter to it... no.

VEI can fix the story, as since Nicieza didn't actually use it, it has no harmful bearing on the overall VALIANT Universe.

The stories that came before it help explain it out.

[Xanithar]

LOL! Ok, I get the gist of it. I lost track of Valiant, because I was getting into me late years of High School and my life was moving too fast.

But It makes sense. I stopped reading near the Chaos Effect as that began. So there is plenty they can do to bring back the Universe of Original Characters.

Thanks, I DEFINITELY Have to read the book. I was just curious if it was possible to bring Aric Back or would they have to do the Spawn thing and go through the ages. Not that that is a bad idea. It would be interesting to have different X-O Manowars and stories of new characters and such. But WE ALL LOVe Aric Dacia. It's hard to get used to a new one.

[dave]

VEI fixing things is going to be very easy...they can do it exactly the way are friends are doing it right now..."things are wrong, and must be righted" easy. i always thought that that was the way to go.

[etos45]

VEI fixing things is going to be very easy...they can do it exactly the way are friends are doing it right now..."things are wrong, and must be righted" easy. i always thought that that was the way to go.

I assume you're talking about Playing God? That's how I kind of figured VEI was going to fix any issues that they might have with picking the VH1 universe back up. That's how I'd like to see it done, anyways.

[ManofTheAtom]

VEI fixing things is going to be very easy...they can do it exactly the way are friends are doing it right now..."things are wrong, and must be righted" easy. i always thought that that was the way to go.

No offense toward PG, but I hope not.

I don't want to see another cosmic reset button, I don't want to see another "God-like being with incredible powers that comes down to Earth to fix what went wrong".

That's what DC has been doing over the last 5-6 years and I'm tired of it.

I rather have a more human solution to the problem, something more down to Earth that follows the stories from the comics.

Doug Freedman hired Sister Serenity to kidnap Ken Clarkson and then he used what he learned from him to capture Aric in a virtual reality scenario in which his daughter took on the persona of Crescendo to mess with his head while Doug used his knowledge of genetic engineering to try to replicate the Good Skin.

That's an extremely simple solution that doesn't require God-like powers.

[dave]

isn't the god-like persona trying to fix things-exactly what erica pierce was attempting at unity? i think that that is a far better solution...virtual reality and assuming another's persona is down to earth?

[ManofTheAtom]

isn't the god-like persona trying to fix things-exactly what erica pierce was attempting at unity? i think that that is a far better solution...virtual reality and assuming another's persona is down to earth?

Yeah, it's more realistic.

It doesn't require the intervention of a God-like being to explain anything. It's the simple solution to a complex problem that works.

God-like beings just show up to snap their fingers and fix problems. Hence the term "deus ex machina".

We don't need that when there is no need for it, when there are better ways to fix the problem that lead to actual storytelling.

All a God-like being would do is snap his fingers and make it so that so and so never happend and everything can go back to the status quo.

That's BORING.

[etos45]

VEI fixing things is going to be very easy...they can do it exactly the way are friends are doing it right now..."things are wrong, and must be righted" easy. i always thought that that was the way to go.

No offense toward PG, but I hope not.

I don't want to see another cosmic reset button, I don't want to see another "God-like being with incredible powers that comes down to Earth to fix what went wrong".

That's what DC has been doing over the last 5-6 years and I'm tired of it.

I rather have a more human solution to the problem, something more down to Earth that follows the stories from the comics.

Doug Freedman hired Sister Serenity to kidnap Ken Clarkson and then he used what he learned from him to capture Aric in a virtual reality scenario in which his daughter took on the persona of Crescendo to mess with his head while Doug used his knowledge of genetic engineering to try to replicate the Good Skin.

That's an extremely simple solution that doesn't require God-like powers.

The way I see PG playing out is that you have a Unity like situation, but it isn't successful (like before) but in the aftermath there are things that are altered and that is where the VEI universe pops in. I'm not seeing it as God-like character pops in... poof... everything ret-coned. I know you still wouldn't approve, but I just don't see it as a bad situation. It's kind of reminiscent of the Solar introduction and of Unity and to me that's not all bad. There's a lot of way that Playing God could pan out, and it may not be all "Doom and Gloom meet Crisis on Infinite Earths as see through the eyes of the Goat".

[ManofTheAtom]

VEI fixing things is going to be very easy...they can do it exactly the way are friends are doing it right now..."things are wrong, and must be righted" easy. i always thought that that was the way to go.

No offense toward PG, but I hope not.

I don't want to see another cosmic reset button, I don't want to see another "God-like being with incredible powers that comes down to Earth to fix what went wrong".

That's what DC has been doing over the last 5-6 years and I'm tired of it.

I rather have a more human solution to the problem, something more down to Earth that follows the stories from the comics.

Doug Freedman hired Sister Serenity to kidnap Ken Clarkson and then he used what he learned from him to capture Aric in a virtual reality scenario in which his daughter took on the persona of Crescendo to mess with his head while Doug used his knowledge of genetic engineering to try to replicate the Good Skin.

That's an extremely simple solution that doesn't require God-like powers.

The way I see PG playing out is that you have a Unity like situation, but it isn't successful (like before) but in the aftermath there are things that are altered and that is where the VEI universe pops in. I'm not seeing it as God-like character pops in... poof... everything ret-coned. I know you still wouldn't approve, but I just don't see it as a bad situation. It's kind of reminiscent of the Solar introduction and of Unity and to me that's not all bad. There's a lot of way that Playing God could pan out, and it may not be all "Doom and Gloom meet Crisis on Infinite Earths as see through the eyes of the Goat".

That to me is boring

I don't want to see a magical solution, they are a drag.

I don't want to be told that, out of a snap of the fingers, Bloodshot no longer perished in the Artic, or that X-O never learned that his experiences in the 20th Century were a dream.

I want to read STORIES that solve this for each individual character.

I don't want to see this anymore than I want to see Peter Parker make a deal with Mephisto to end his marriage to save Aunt May's life so that the comics can rehash old plots from the 70's.

[etos45]

That to me is boring

I don't want to see a magical solution, they are a drag.

I don't want to be told that, out of a snap of the fingers, Bloodshot no longer perished in the Artic, or that X-O never learned that his experiences in the 20th Century were a dream.

I want to read STORIES that solve this for each individual character.

I don't want to see this anymore than I want to see Peter Parker make a deal with Mephisto to end his marriage to save Aunt May's life so that the comics can rehash old plots from the 70's.

I'm going to take a stretch on this one, but Playing God takes place in 1997 and VH1 ended in 1996... So maybe it's not to erase the past issues, but more just the future premonitions or just to give some kind of Unity sized event to give a start to the universe. They have a lot of ground to cover from 1996 to 2008, the universe has basically been on pause since then, and this story could either be something as simple as an establishment that Valiant starts back in 1997 or a springboard to get it to 2008 or a way to introduce a Solar-replacement or just a fan-fic... who knows? I'll also point out that X-O hasn't been seen yet... so maybe he's in that VR chamber you love so much and they are on their way to spring him right now.

[ManofTheAtom]

That to me is boring

I don't want to see a magical solution, they are a drag.

I don't want to be told that, out of a snap of the fingers, Bloodshot no longer perished in the Artic, or that X-O never learned that his experiences in the 20th Century were a dream.

I want to read STORIES that solve this for each individual character.

I don't want to see this anymore than I want to see Peter Parker make a deal with Mephisto to end his marriage to save Aunt May's life so that the comics can rehash old plots from the 70's.

I'm going to take a stretch on this one, but Playing God takes place in 1997 and *VALIANT (1991-1996)* ended in 1996... So maybe it's not to erase the past issues, but more just the future premonitions or just to give some kind of Unity sized event to give a start to the universe. They have a lot of ground to cover from 1996 to 2008, the universe has basically been on pause since then, and this story could either be something as simple as an establishment that Valiant starts back in 1997 or a springboard to get it to 2008 or a way to introduce a Solar-replacement or just a fan-fic... who knows? I'll also point out that X-O hasn't been seen yet... so maybe he's in that VR chamber you love so much and they are on their way to spring him right now.

PG is just a fanfic, it's not an official comic book from VEI. That much is a fact.

Comic book-wise, the solution that the guys behind PG came up with, and the solution that Petrilak came up with (to have Ivar save Jack from falling to his death), and other fanfic solutions we've seen over the last 15 years don't work for VALIANT.

The comics have to be more compelling than that, and NOT retread material that DC and Marvel have been doing.

When Crisis on Infinite Earths came out, it was revolutionary because nothing like that had ever happened before.

TODAY, what happend in Crisis has become a CLICHE. It's OVERUSED, it's become boring.

VEI needs to do something that would be as revolutionary today as Crisis was 25 years ago, NOT more of the same.

If something like Project Superpowers can bring back 40 year old characters without the hand of God, then surely VEI can do the same with charaters that are much younger than that.

[etos45]

PG is just a fanfic, it's not an official comic book from VEI. That much is a fact.

I thought I read in another thread that Playing God was commissioned from VEI and whether or not it is "canon" was still up in the air? Maybe I misread that.

As for how Valiant can best do things... that is a thread that I'm pretty sure has been gone over and over. I was just talking about the "What if it was the PG way" not even really knowing where they're going with it.

Could Valiant come up with some massively inventive, never before thought of way to relaunch without erasing anything? Sure. But, I believe that putting your expectations too high is going to leave you disappointed no matter what. I would like to see them keep all past stories, but I am also open to the idea that they may have to start somewhere in the middle and I have no problem with them voiding out Rai #0 (I know... blasphemy). The reason why is because it takes too much of the mystery out of the stories. If Archer gets put in a situation of danger, the reader isn't even remotely phased, because they know that Archer doesn't die until such and such time, such and such way. I prefer the surprise death. Rai #0 was a great read, and one of my favorite Valiant comics, but I do think it revealed more than what I wanted to know that far in advance. /blasphemy

[ManofTheAtom]

As for how Valiant can best do things... that is a thread that I'm pretty sure has been gone over and over. I was just talking about the "What if it was the PG way" not even really knowing where they're going with it.

Having God come down to Earth to fix things so that issue 44 of one title and issue 33 of another never happened is what DC and Marvel do. VEI should do things the way VALIANT does since that's the universe they acquired.

Could Valiant come up with some massively inventive, never before thought of way to relaunch without erasing anything? Sure. But, I believe that putting your expectations too high is going to leave you disappointed no matter what.

It really depends on who they hire to write the comics.

If the hire the same bunch of idiots, like Busiek, Waid, Morrison, Ennis, Nicieza, et all, who haven't come up with an original idea in 20 years and keep recycling the same plots over and over again, then we're bound to see more of the same.

If instead they hire people with new ideas, we might see stuff we've never seen before, instead of have someone push the almighty reset button just to pander to the fans.

I would like to see them keep all past stories, but I am also open to the idea that they may have to start somewhere in the middle and I have no problem with them voiding out Rai #0 (I know... blasphemy). The reason why is because it takes too much of the mystery out of the stories. If Archer gets put in a situation of danger, the reader isn't even remotely phased, because they know that Archer doesn't die until such and such time, such and such way. I prefer the surprise death. Rai #0 was a great read, and one of my favorite Valiant comics, but I do think it revealed more than what I wanted to know that far in advance. /blasphemy

Why does the death of a character have to define a character?

Look at Shadowman. Hall managed to end the series with the mother of all cliffhangers, and despite the fact that we know that Jack could not have died when he jumped off the building we're still debating it over a decade later.

[etos45]

Having God come down to Earth to fix things so that issue 44 of one title and issue 33 of another never happened is what DC and Marvel do. VEI should do things the way VALIANT does since that's the universe they acquired.

You are assuming that it's God coming down. We don't know what that character is yet. It could be Solar... Erica... someone new. Unless I missed something major in this series, they haven't really covered what it is yet or where they are going with it. I am still very curious what you think the meaning of their choice of date is? Because I think that the decision to set it in 1997 could be significant in itself...

It really depends on who they hire to write the comics.

If instead they hire people with new ideas, we might see stuff we've never seen before, instead of have someone push the almighty reset button just to pander to the fans.

That's the key.... you might see something new... or you might not. All I'm aiming for is a well written story that keeps the damage to a minimum. After the train wreck that was the Star Wars prequels, I've learned it's best to keep expectations low. I hear a lot of people enjoyed the prequels... but I was expecting something massive.

Why does the death of a character have to define a character?

Look at Shadowman. Hall managed to end the series with the mother of all cliffhangers, and despite the fact that we know that Jack could not have died when he jumped off the building we're still debating it over a decade later.

It's not that the death defines the character, but I just think it takes a lot away from the character to know the exact way, shape, and form of his death. It also limits a writer from doing something truly inventive with a character because now Flamingo HAS to be with Archer. Archer had no life altering deformity. The Archies will start around this time. Bloodshot dies here from this guy. Sting has a kid and it makes the whole "Sting is gay" thing hard to do. I dunno... that's just a big deal to me. It's like if someone tells you the plot twist of the end of a movie before you see it.

[myron]

I thought Aric died fighting Harada in the future as a naked old man?

Yep.

Xanithar thinks that he died in 68 because he hasn't read it yet.

Keep dreaming

oh no you didn't...

[ManofTheAtom]

You are assuming that it's God coming down. We don't know what that character is yet. It could be Solar... Erica... someone new. Unless I missed something major in this series, they haven't really covered what it is yet or where they are going with it. I am still very curious what you think the meaning of their choice of date is? Because I think that the decision to set it in 1997 could be significant in itself...

Its as significant as it has to be for the fan fic to work.

I also noticed that they made the mistake of making a reference to the Fantastic Four movie, which didn't come out in 97, but almost a decade later.

PG has no bearing on VEI except as a possible path to take, one I strongly disagree with as the "Cosmic Being who comes to make everything better" solution has already been done in comics one too many times.

That's the key.... you might see something new... or you might not. All I'm aiming for is a well written story that keeps the damage to a minimum. After the train wreck that was the Star Wars prequels, I've learned it's best to keep expectations low. I hear a lot of people enjoyed the prequels... but I was expecting something massive.

VEI is not DC, Marvel, or Star Wars. VEI is the newest incarnation of VALIANT, and as such it should be judged on the same principles as the VALIANT Universe.

It's not that the death defines the character, but I just think it takes a lot away from the character to know the exact way, shape, and form of his death. It also limits a writer from doing something truly inventive with a character because now Flamingo HAS to be with Archer. Archer had no life altering deformity. The Archies will start around this time. Bloodshot dies here from this guy. Sting has a kid and it makes the whole "Sting is gay" thing hard to do. I dunno... that's just a big deal to me. It's like if someone tells you the plot twist of the end of a movie before you see it.

Like Memento, right? Man, that movie sucked.../sarcasm

Sometimes it's not about knowing who wins the race, but how they getthere.