Why were the 90's so oversaturated?

greg · Post by **greg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:45 am

Unblessed wrote:Thanks Greg. I am not a comic expert of the 90's.

~The Unblessed Soul

No worries, you recognized a "better talent" for Savage Dragon...
and that was definitely the case!

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:47 am

i'm sooooooooo gonna get flamed for this one...

let me say i'm NOT a fan of rob's work at all. i think his storytelling abilities are limited at best. interestingly enough his early stuff (hawk & dove for example) was almost decent. i thought the guy had some real potential.

but the bottom line is that rob liefield was and is being discussed because he is one of the iconic figures in the industry. once again, let me say...i DO NOT dig on his stuff...quite the opposite.

all the icons of the industry have one thing in common...their own wholly unique style and art. there are lots of guys i'm not big fans of who fall into this catagory.

you pick up a jim lee book and you know, without looking that it's jim lee.
same goes for frank miller, walt simonson, dan jurgens, tim truman, neal adams, mark bagley, marc silvestri, michael turner, art adams, bill sienkewicz...the list goes on and on.

the reason these guys are "names" in the industry is because they and their styles have had an impact on the industry. like it or not, god knows i don't, but liefield is part of that group.

their styles and the ability to set their work apart from the crowd is what makes them special. think of it in terms of famous painters...i'm not a jackson pollack fan but i know his work when i see it. the same is true for van gogh, warhol, dali, wyeth...there's really a direct relation.

you don't have to like any of those guys to know what impact they had on their medium. do i wish rob liefield would learn how to draw feet and fists? hell yes! but that's part of his style...like it or not.

so...let the flaming begin...this is gonna hurt.

all i can do, as a consumer, is to let my dollar be my voice. rob liefield puts a book out, i don't buy it. steve epting gets put on captain america, i buy every issue.

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm

I blame Wizard and their flavor of the second mentality. Flame that, flamers.

~The Unblessed Soul

MedicAR · Post by **MedicAR** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:25 pm

cinlach@aol.com wrote:i'm sooooooooo gonna get flamed for this one...

let me say i'm NOT a fan of rob's work at all. i think his storytelling abilities are limited at best. interestingly enough his early stuff (hawk & dove for example) was almost decent. i thought the guy had some real potential.

but the bottom line is that rob liefield was and is being discussed because he is one of the iconic figures in the industry. once again, let me say...i DO NOT dig on his stuff...quite the opposite.

all the icons of the industry have one thing in common...their own wholly unique style and art. there are lots of guys i'm not big fans of who fall into this catagory.

you pick up a jim lee book and you know, without looking that it's jim lee.
same goes for frank miller, walt simonson, dan jurgens, tim truman, neal adams, mark bagley, marc silvestri, michael turner, art adams, bill sienkewicz...the list goes on and on.

the reason these guys are "names" in the industry is because they and their styles have had an impact on the industry. like it or not, god knows i don't, but liefield is part of that group.

their styles and the ability to set their work apart from the crowd is what makes them special. think of it in terms of famous painters...i'm not a jackson pollack fan but i know his work when i see it. the same is true for van gogh, warhol, dali, wyeth...there's really a direct relation.

you don't have to like any of those guys to know what impact they had on their medium. do i wish rob liefield would learn how to draw feet and fists? hell yes! but that's part of his style...like it or not.

so...let the flaming begin...this is gonna hurt.

all i can do, as a consumer, is to let my dollar be my voice. rob liefield puts a book out, i don't buy it. steve epting gets put on captain america, i buy every issue.

No takers? Ok, I'll handle it.....

You sir, are an idiot!

How's that for a flame?

Not really, you do make a good point. I don't care for his work, but I do recognize it instantly. That alone means he left a mark on the industry. It may be a scar, but it is a mark! I'll have to dig them out, but I do seem to recall his Hawk & Dove actually wasn't bad, that book may be one reason I looked forward to the launch of Image!

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:31 pm

MagnusRF wrote:I looked forward to the launch of Image!

Someone please flame this poster. He knows not what he posts.

~The Unblessed Soul

MedicAR · Post by **MedicAR** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:37 pm

Unblessed wrote:
MagnusRF wrote:I looked forward to the launch of Image!
Someone please flame this poster. He knows not what he posts.

~The Unblessed Soul

It was a long time ago, just after I had the plate put in my head. Now, please turn off the microwave oven before I pee my pants and forget who I am for half an hour!!!!

greg · Post by **greg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:43 pm

Nah, it's ok if he looked forward to the launch of Image...

Everybody looks forward to the LAUNCH of something new.
It's the poor implementation that kills a company.
Concepts are always great on the drawing board, right?

(Well, except Deathmate.)

riff13 · Post by **riff13** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:09 pm

I looked forward to the launch of Image. I'd always been a fan of indipentents, Mirage Studios (TMNT) is home to the beginning of my serious comic collection.

I loved the artists, God help me I liked McFarlane, but I was and still am a rabid Jim Lee fan.

And it was kind of cool because they tried to have the universe continuity that valiant had, but it didn't work for them because Image was built on multiple egos instead of just one.

MedicAR · Post by **MedicAR** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:15 pm

I fell in love with McFarlane's stuff during Batman: Year Two in Detective. It made me think of Marshall Rogers.... it was cartoony, but not silly, and I loved the line work and Bat's cape! It was long before he went overboard with capes (i.e. Spawn)

riff13 · Post by **riff13** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:20 pm

Actually I admit that I still love his Spider-man comics, but the man's ego is bigger than Billy Coragan's.

That's what turned me off of him.

MedicAR · Post by **MedicAR** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:35 pm

I try to seperate the person from their art, but it can be hard at times.....

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:52 pm

SiBill wrote: I so wanted to support Millinium Comics (the African American DC line).

Now - tell me - if Valiant had any freaking sense whatsoever, why didn't they hold out for a Spawn, Master Darque, Shadowman crossover?

Nice story. I think you meant you supported Milestone Comics (which was a really, really good line).

And Jack, Al, and Darque would've rocked so damn much in a x-over, especially if they let Bob Hall do it.

I really wanted to see a crossover between Starman and Shadowman (you could call it "The Two Jacks"

). I can just see the Shade and Master Darque having tea together now....

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:54 pm

Unblessed wrote:Liefeld the savage dragon or shadowhawk guy? Cause I thought SD was one of the Better Image rags. Though I only got into the WILD Cats mini.

~The Unblessed Soul

Liefield is the X-Force, Youngblood, Prophet, Supreme guy.

riff13 · Post by **riff13** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:04 pm

MagnusRF wrote:I try to seperate the person from their art, but it can be hard at times.....

True, I really tried to do that, but it go to the point with Spawn where there were inconsistansies from pannel to pannel (some one the same page even), and in that instance it seemed to me that Mcfarlane got to the point where he thought "I'm so good everybody will buy this no matter what I draw."

Consistancy is essential, that's a big part of why I loved the VH-1 universe so much.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:41 pm

" I'm so good everybody will buy this no mater what I draw" IS exactly what he thought. That mentality carried over to the other Image creators.
I blame Image for what happend during the early '90s and not for ther artistic style or ther writing style. Ther egos, ther commitment to ther titles , and ther commitment to ther fans! Yeah, lets solicit books we have no intention of getting out on time(or at all) ,lets put out a #1 issue wiyh 5 different covers!

greg · Post by **greg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:06 pm

jedimarley wrote:...lets put out a #1 issue wiyh 5 different covers!

That was Marvel's idea, though.

riff13 · Post by **riff13** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:24 pm

greg wrote:
jedimarley wrote:...lets put out a #1 issue wiyh 5 different covers!
That was Marvel's idea, though.

Yeah, actually Mcfarlane hated the idea of putting out the same book with multiple covers. Notice that no issues of Spawn ran mutiple covers.

For as huge as his ego was Mcfarlane was a good artist (When he had a editor forcing him to be consistent) and did have some good points, like the one issue one cover thing.

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:26 pm

nobody ripped out my spleen??

you guys are slipping!

i'll have to make a more inflammatory point next time...lol

seriously, thats one of the things i dig about the valiant boards, for the most part we're all pretty tolerent and supportive of each other.

i'm starting to get the warm fuzzies...

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:28 pm

cinlach@aol.com wrote: i'm starting to get the warm fuzzies...

Only loosers admit to collecting Image and liking art > story.. I hope your kids need to use your comics for fuel one day.

How was that? Was that what you wanted?

~The Unblessed Soul

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:01 pm

Todd Luck wrote:
Unblessed wrote:Liefeld the savage dragon or shadowhawk guy? Cause I thought SD was one of the Better Image rags. Though I only got into the WILD Cats mini.

~The Unblessed Soul
Liefield is the X-Force, Youngblood, Prophet, Supreme guy.

And the Levi's jeans commercial guy. I actually liked his early work on Hawk and Dove. Other than that, he's right up there with Nicieza for me.

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:36 pm

400yrs wrote:
Todd Luck wrote:
Unblessed wrote:Liefeld the savage dragon or shadowhawk guy? Cause I thought SD was one of the Better Image rags. Though I only got into the WILD Cats mini.

~The Unblessed Soul
Liefield is the X-Force, Youngblood, Prophet, Supreme guy.
And the Levi's jeans commercial guy. I actually liked his early work on Hawk and Dove. Other than that, he's right up there with Nicieza for me.

Funny you should mention Nicieza--he and Liefeld recently worked on X-FORCE again.

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:40 pm

Wait, someone doesn't like Nicieza...?

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:44 pm

Does anyone like his work or am I alone in feeling ripped off everytime I used to pick something up that he did? He's one of those writers where I'd buy a book based on the characters, not looking at who wrote it and then after I am done reading it, I make a mental note that it was pure crap and a waste of money. Nothing against the guy, just don't care for his work. At all.

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:55 pm

400yrs wrote:Does anyone like his work

There are. I think there might be enough of a fanbase. I do admit that I actually liked TROUBLEMAKERS.

And people have been recommending me Nicieza's run on PSI FORCE, but I haven't had the chance to pick it up yet.

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:01 pm

Will wrote:Wait, someone doesn't like Nicieza...?

Wasn't he of the same blood of Satan? I don't know the guy, but SOME people on a NAMELESS BOARD, don't like him

~The Unblessed Soul