Speculation as to why A&A is the next HC

[siren3-4]

They need to release this now because they want Jack Black to play armstrong in the movie . . .

[X-O Dudeowar]

While I'm always hesitant (and probably more apt, against) using what seems to be net talk as something that should be taken into account when making business decisions involving comics, the two most talked about comics from VALIANT/ACCALAIM I always find to be are A&A and Quantum and Woody when it comes to talk at comic book communities I'm in.

Outside of valiantfans, I have noticed the exact same thing.

Whenever non-diehard valiant fans talk about the hardcovers, and which series they hope gets collected, Archer & Armstrong is mentioned most frequently from what I have heard.

I think thats a great point. A&A has a huge fan base it seems. I think it has something to do with Armstrong's *ahem*... build?

Maybe a few comicbook fans can relate?

Jokes aside, I've noticed the same thing. I mentioned with some surprise to my mild VALIANT fan brother that A&A was going to be the next hardcover and not Shadowman, but instead of the expected surprise, he was pretty excited. "Really? A&A is great!"

[Knob]

If I recall, everyone was expecting Shadowman to be the next HC that was printed, not A&A.

Any speculation as to why they printed A&A next?

I am not sure about the sales figures, but after BWS left, I am pretty sure that Shadowman was a more popular figure.

A&A, of all the Valiant books, may be the least "critical" to the Universe. It is/was a comedy series, lighthearted, and not really impacting the Valiant Universe as a whole. (Shadowman, on the other hand, involved one of the major bad guys in the universe). So it doesn't seem like it could have been printed because of its importance to Valiant.

Perhaps they are still working out details for the Shadowman HC (assuming there is one)?

Perhaps they could print this one precisely BECAUSE it is somewhat detached - they don't have to worry about the continuity as much as with other titles.

Or maybe this was the plan all along - try to include something a little "lighter" after pounding out two of the "big boys".

Chris

When you own the rights to some great work by one of comics top ten all time talents, it's a massive waste if you DON'T reprint it.

Dark Horse did pretty well with the Conan reprints of BWS work.

I think the A&A decision was largely to show that Valiant is connected with a true comics legend other than Shooter. At least that's what I'd have thought.

[cobra_commander]

If I recall, everyone was expecting Shadowman to be the next HC that was printed, not A&A.

Any speculation as to why they printed A&A next?

I am not sure about the sales figures, but after BWS left, I am pretty sure that Shadowman was a more popular figure.

A&A, of all the Valiant books, may be the least "critical" to the Universe. It is/was a comedy series, lighthearted, and not really impacting the Valiant Universe as a whole. (Shadowman, on the other hand, involved one of the major bad guys in the universe). So it doesn't seem like it could have been printed because of its importance to Valiant.

Perhaps they are still working out details for the Shadowman HC (assuming there is one)?

Perhaps they could print this one precisely BECAUSE it is somewhat detached - they don't have to worry about the continuity as much as with other titles.

Or maybe this was the plan all along - try to include something a little "lighter" after pounding out two of the "big boys".

Chris

When you own the rights to some great work by one of comics top ten all time talents, it's a massive waste if you DON'T reprint it.

Dark Horse did pretty well with the Conan reprints of BWS work.

I think the A&A decision was largely to show that Valiant is connected with a true comics legend other than Shooter. At least that's what I'd have thought.

Another good point

[Squirrel]

If I recall, everyone was expecting Shadowman to be the next HC that was printed, not A&A.

Any speculation as to why they printed A&A next?

I am not sure about the sales figures, but after BWS left, I am pretty sure that Shadowman was a more popular figure.

A&A, of all the Valiant books, may be the least "critical" to the Universe. It is/was a comedy series, lighthearted, and not really impacting the Valiant Universe as a whole. (Shadowman, on the other hand, involved one of the major bad guys in the universe). So it doesn't seem like it could have been printed because of its importance to Valiant.

Perhaps they are still working out details for the Shadowman HC (assuming there is one)?

Perhaps they could print this one precisely BECAUSE it is somewhat detached - they don't have to worry about the continuity as much as with other titles.

Or maybe this was the plan all along - try to include something a little "lighter" after pounding out two of the "big boys".

Chris

When you own the rights to some great work by one of comics top ten all time talents, it's a massive waste if you DON'T reprint it.

Dark Horse did pretty well with the Conan reprints of BWS work.

I think the A&A decision was largely to show that Valiant is connected with a true comics legend other than Shooter. At least that's what I'd have thought.

Good point...but did you have help? No one from Chicago can think that well on their own

[sanman]

I think the A&A decision was largely to show that Valiant is connected with a true comics legend other than Shooter. At least that's what I'd have thought.

Good point but how aware do you think most current readers are of BWS? I would think that anyone for whom the HC books are serving as a Valiant introduction, BWS is probably not that big of a deal. Granted, BWS is awesome but reprinting Joe Quesada's work would be much more relevant.

Further, I don’t know that capitalizing on BWS would be a sound decision as he remains a bit hostile towards Valiant while Quesada appears to be proud of his early start.

[Knob]

I think the A&A decision was largely to show that Valiant is connected with a true comics legend other than Shooter. At least that's what I'd have thought.

Good point but how aware do you think most current readers are of BWS? I would think that anyone for whom the HC books are serving as a Valiant introduction, BWS is probably not that big of a deal. Granted, BWS is awesome but reprinting Joe Quesada's work would be much more relevant.

Further, I don’t know that capitalizing on BWS would be a sound decision as he remains a bit hostile towards Valiant while Quesada appears to be proud of his early start.

I know what you mean, it would make sense to reprint some Quesada stuff especially if they really plaster "BY JOE QUESADA" to all of the promotions, they should do the same with BWS and the A&A HC.

As for BWS, the only people who won't know him are young 20s or teens who started collecting mid 90s and after. That's a smaller group of comics fans than it used to be and hopefully is again.

70s fans know him from Conan, late 80s and early 90s fans know him from Weapon X and Valiant. Not a lot of quantity over his career, but amazing quality. Even mention him as the guy who originally told Wolverine's origin if focus groups say people don't know his name.

They've paid the rights to use stories and art by Shooter, BWS and Quesada so those names are probably nearly as valuable as the characters until they can get back into the comic fans vernacular.

[Daniel Jackson]

Further, I don’t know that capitalizing on BWS would be a sound decision as he remains a bit hostile towards Valiant while Quesada appears to be proud of his early start.

I'm actually surprised that Q doesn't harbor some bad feelings for Valiant as well after being "fired" by Layton.

[sanman]

I know what you mean, it would make sense to reprint some Quesada stuff especially if they really plaster "BY JOE QUESADA" to all of the promotions, they should do the same with BWS and the A&A HC.

As for BWS, the only people who won't know him are young 20s or teens who started collecting mid 90s and after. That's a smaller group of comics fans than it used to be and hopefully is again.

70s fans know him from Conan, late 80s and early 90s fans know him from Weapon X and Valiant. Not a lot of quantity over his career, but amazing quality. Even mention him as the guy who originally told Wolverine's origin if focus groups say people don't know his name.

They've paid the rights to use stories and art by Shooter, BWS and Quesada so those names are probably nearly as valuable as the characters until they can get back into the comic fans vernacular.

Readers of the day who would care about BWS probably already know that he was heavily involved with Valiant. I’m not sure that reprinting A&A has much to do with readers recognizing "that Valiant [was] connected with a true comics legend" at all.

Certainly BWS is a large part of why the book should still appeal to readers today (and in a round about way I do agree with you) but I just don’t see any celebrity factor enhancing book sales.

Further, I don’t think it would be wise for VE to focus too much on who was involved with Valiant unless he or she is at least willing to support the company’s return like Shooter, Hall...etc.. VE needs to focus on just the characters and what was great about Valiant as opposed to taking the chance with dropping disgruntled illustrators’ names too often who might only later blast the company or a product in Wizard, Newsarama, CBR...etc.

[sanman]

I'm actually surprised that Q doesn't harbor some bad feelings for Valiant as well after being "fired" by Layton.

Yeah, but VE has been circulating several Quesada quotes for some time without a problem. So he either has moved on from the situation or has his hands too full with Marvel to really care. Certainly, if Quesada wanted to vent he could have easily done so as VE has him quoted twice on the X-O HC.

[Zaphod]

Its probable (I figure) that Quesada is simply more of a professional than BWS is, was, ever will be. I don't know if that is not true but it isn't as if Q has ever had trouble speaking his mind with the number of times he slags DC publically.

And lets face it, who is in the better position at the moment, Q or Layton?

[Daniel Jackson]

And lets face it, who is in the better position at the moment, Q or Layton?

Hmm....I'll have to go with Q on this one......

[Cyberstrike]

Another thing to consider is that the seven issues of Archer & Armstrong being reprinted in HC pretty much tells a full story.

IIRC Shadowman #1-7 is more all over place after. especially the issues following after the Unity crossover.
Shadowman was kind of adrift for a little while, also Shadowman #0 would make no sense with context #1-6.

I might be wrong I haven't slept very well for weeks so my memory is kind of fuzzy.

[Knob]

Another thing to consider is that the seven issues of Archer & Armstrong being reprinted in HC pretty much tells a full story.

IIRC Shadowman #1-7 is more all over place after. especially the issues following after the Unity crossover.
Shadowman was kind of adrift for a little while, also Shadowman #0 would make no sense with context #1-6.

I might be wrong I haven't slept very well for weeks so my memory is kind of fuzzy.

I reread shadowman 0-30 recently and you're right. The best early shadowman arc to be a hardcover would not start at 1 or 0.

[sanman]

I reread shadowman 0-30 recently and you're right. The best early shadowman arc to be a hardcover would not start at 1 or 0.

How does the original Shadowman TP (reprints Shadowman #1 - 3 and #6) read? I’d like to see a Shadowman HC reprinting #1-6 at least with a new back up feature but I agree that #0 should be omitted—that really would be confusing.

[xodacia81]

Another thing to consider is that the seven issues of Archer & Armstrong being reprinted in HC pretty much tells a full story.

IIRC Shadowman #1-7 is more all over place after. especially the issues following after the Unity crossover.
Shadowman was kind of adrift for a little while, also Shadowman #0 would make no sense with context #1-6.

I might be wrong I haven't slept very well for weeks so my memory is kind of fuzzy.

I reread shadowman 0-30 recently and you're right. The best early shadowman arc to be a hardcover would not start at 1 or 0.

The problem with a Shadowman collection is that unless one wants to put in Unity, the early issues make no sense. On top of that, the series didn't really start until # 6 or 7. The best arc is, of course, Hall's Bloodrunner story, but without the setup of the previous issues, new readers might well be lost as to who, why and how certain things and characters exist and act. I'm very curious to see what they do for a SM HC.

[nutflush76]

I think that Bloodshot should be the next hardcover.

Sure, Bloodshot #1 has kinda turned into a joke because of how many copies of it are out there, but I think that is one of the best books that Valiant put out.

The first splash page of issue #1 where Bloodshot swings in and blows that guys brains out would sell a TON of books!

[ManofTheAtom]

Another thing to consider is that the seven issues of Archer & Armstrong being reprinted in HC pretty much tells a full story.

IIRC Shadowman #1-7 is more all over place after. especially the issues following after the Unity crossover.
Shadowman was kind of adrift for a little while, also Shadowman #0 would make no sense with context #1-6.

I might be wrong I haven't slept very well for weeks so my memory is kind of fuzzy.

I reread shadowman 0-30 recently and you're right. The best early shadowman arc to be a hardcover would not start at 1 or 0.

The problem with a Shadowman collection is that unless one wants to put in Unity, the early issues make no sense. On top of that, the series didn't really start until # 6 or 7. The best arc is, of course, Hall's Bloodrunner story, but without the setup of the previous issues, new readers might well be lost as to who, why and how certain things and characters exist and act. I'm very curious to see what they do for a SM HC.

Prior to Hall taking over, most issues of Shadowman were pretty self contained.

A hardcover with issues 1-6 would tell self contained stories (like 1-3 with the origin, 4-5 with Unity, and 6 with the encounter with the cannibals).

A second hardcover could collect issues 7-13, which tell the Bloodrunners arc (from 7 to 12), Sosa's return, and a self-contained story before Jack leaves New Orleans.

[xodacia81]

Another thing to consider is that the seven issues of Archer & Armstrong being reprinted in HC pretty much tells a full story.

IIRC Shadowman #1-7 is more all over place after. especially the issues following after the Unity crossover.
Shadowman was kind of adrift for a little while, also Shadowman #0 would make no sense with context #1-6.

I might be wrong I haven't slept very well for weeks so my memory is kind of fuzzy.

I reread shadowman 0-30 recently and you're right. The best early shadowman arc to be a hardcover would not start at 1 or 0.

The problem with a Shadowman collection is that unless one wants to put in Unity, the early issues make no sense. On top of that, the series didn't really start until # 6 or 7. The best arc is, of course, Hall's Bloodrunner story, but without the setup of the previous issues, new readers might well be lost as to who, why and how certain things and characters exist and act. I'm very curious to see what they do for a SM HC.

Prior to Hall taking over, most issues of Shadowman were pretty self contained.

A hardcover with issues 1-6 would tell self contained stories (like 1-3 with the origin, 4-5 with Unity, and 6 with the encounter with the cannibals).

A second hardcover could collect issues 7-13, which tell the Bloodrunners arc (from 7 to 12), Sosa's return, and a self-contained story before Jack leaves New Orleans.

True enough. Still, do they want to put out multiple HC's of a single series? What would work better as a 1st volume? To begin where it all started, or something else? I'm all for putting out 1-6.

[ManofTheAtom]

Another thing to consider is that the seven issues of Archer & Armstrong being reprinted in HC pretty much tells a full story.

IIRC Shadowman #1-7 is more all over place after. especially the issues following after the Unity crossover.
Shadowman was kind of adrift for a little while, also Shadowman #0 would make no sense with context #1-6.

I might be wrong I haven't slept very well for weeks so my memory is kind of fuzzy.

I reread shadowman 0-30 recently and you're right. The best early shadowman arc to be a hardcover would not start at 1 or 0.

The problem with a Shadowman collection is that unless one wants to put in Unity, the early issues make no sense. On top of that, the series didn't really start until # 6 or 7. The best arc is, of course, Hall's Bloodrunner story, but without the setup of the previous issues, new readers might well be lost as to who, why and how certain things and characters exist and act. I'm very curious to see what they do for a SM HC.

Prior to Hall taking over, most issues of Shadowman were pretty self contained.

A hardcover with issues 1-6 would tell self contained stories (like 1-3 with the origin, 4-5 with Unity, and 6 with the encounter with the cannibals).

A second hardcover could collect issues 7-13, which tell the Bloodrunners arc (from 7 to 12), Sosa's return, and a self-contained story before Jack leaves New Orleans.

True enough. Still, do they want to put out multiple HC's of a single series? What would work better as a 1st volume? To begin where it all started, or something else? I'm all for putting out 1-6.

It makes sense to begin where it all started. Skipping to issue 7 lacks logic as nothing in those stories tell us anything about the characters.

[yardstick]

If I recall, everyone was expecting Shadowman to be the next HC that was printed, not A&A.

Any speculation as to why they printed A&A next?

I am not sure about the sales figures, but after BWS left, I am pretty sure that Shadowman was a more popular figure.

A&A, of all the Valiant books, may be the least "critical" to the Universe. It is/was a comedy series, lighthearted, and not really impacting the Valiant Universe as a whole. (Shadowman, on the other hand, involved one of the major bad guys in the universe). So it doesn't seem like it could have been printed because of its importance to Valiant.

Perhaps they are still working out details for the Shadowman HC (assuming there is one)?

Perhaps they could print this one precisely BECAUSE it is somewhat detached - they don't have to worry about the continuity as much as with other titles.

Or maybe this was the plan all along - try to include something a little "lighter" after pounding out two of the "big boys".

Chris

When you own the rights to some great work by one of comics top ten all time talents, it's a massive waste if you DON'T reprint it.

Dark Horse did pretty well with the Conan reprints of BWS work.

I think the A&A decision was largely to show that Valiant is connected with a true comics legend other than Shooter. At least that's what I'd have thought.

Good point...but did you have help? No one from Chicago can think that well on their own

Must be something in the water?