Next "new" story?

[yardstick]

What if the founder of the Anti-grannies WAS the proto Rai? Or perhaps even Sho Sugino?

Or what if the founder of the anti-grannies was also somehow involved in a proto-Rai?

Founder of the Anti-Grannies = Proto Rai ?

man, am I psychotic or what...


oops.. i mean psychic...

[yardstick]

not to mention the Goat Rai...

Ah, it's already been done to death...

Shouldnt the goat-rai's mask be blue? And maybe a blue cape...

[yardstick]

not to mention the Goat Rai...

Ah, it's already been done to death...

Shouldnt the goat-rai's mask be blue? And maybe a blue cape...


nevermind. I was gettin him confused with the goat-shadowman...

or is that shadowgoat?

Shoat?

[yardstick]

If the Goat had nanites and needed to absorb meat to regenerate a wound, would it use a man like Bloodshot used a cat?

Only ewe would think of such a thing, MOTA...

[yardstick]

Shadowman, Harbinger, Solar, A&A, X-O Manowar, Rai, and Harbinger all used plots from Shooter or the other writers involved in the pre Unity titles except for EW, which we know used a different plot from the one that appeared in Previews).

Mota, can you share the previews plot? I missed it the first time around...

Thanks

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/postunityprev.asp

See if it opens for you. Now that I remember, the other titles also had some minor differences, like Andar the Geomancer in Solar instead of Geoff, but for the most part, the solicits reflect the published comics.

Link did not work...

[yardstick]

... like the one on Neptune where Torque found Armstrong.

When did this happen?

I missed this...

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/wik ... 0Geomancer

It happened in Magnus 43-44-45 I think

Thanks...

[cjv]

Perhaps Japanese robots are more advanced than North Am robots?

It's not a matter of technology but need. The Japanese people did not require robots to police, tender their guardens, built for them, etc, like the North Americans did since Grandmother took care of that for them.

But prior to grandmother, she was NOT there, and they might have wanted/neede Robots.

And since we are talking about using a robot as a proto-Rai, this WOULD have occured right around when Grandmother was "born" in 3050.

Bringing up the concept that Grandmother cared for everything is moot, since Grandmother didn't exist prior to 3050.

You can't use facts about Grandmothers existance in 4000AD to argue about what life was like in Japan before she existed, before 3050.

Chris

[cjv]

Actually there is evidence of highly advanced robots that existed prior to Magnus' time.

Proteus came from 2045 or 2055 (according the entry on the Valiant wikipedia).

Proteus is a highly advanced robot, and existed prior to Magnus' time.

Chris

Until Bloodshot destroyed him, at which point he ceased to exist.

Just because Proteus existed it doesn't mean that others like him could exist as well.

Proteus was an isolated case of a virus that evolved into a nanite-based lifeform that traveled into the past.

Oh I see...an isolated case.

It happened once..but..but..but...it can't happen ever again!

Whatever man.

Chris

No, it can't happen again.

The people who created Proteus, Yoshi and Ito, were killed, while Proteus was destroyed.

Yoshi? Ito? very Japanese sounding names...

But it can't happen. Even though it happened once, even though the technology existed for it to happen, MOTA says it can't happen again.



Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

But prior to grandmother, she was NOT there, and they might have wanted/neede Robots.

And since we are talking about using a robot as a proto-Rai, this WOULD have occured right around when Grandmother was "born" in 3050.

Bringing up the concept that Grandmother cared for everything is moot, since Grandmother didn't exist prior to 3050.

You can't use facts about Grandmothers existance in 4000AD to argue about what life was like in Japan before she existed, before 3050.

Chris

3050 comes after the end of the Harbinger Wars in 2999, so the state of robotics between now and then doesn't have to be based on the state of robotics today.

Given the "world outside our window" model, it is possible for there to today (both in the VU and the real world) be robots that are more advanced than the ones seen in Magnus in Rai, but given that the Harbinger Wars take place between now and 3050, we can't use today's state of robotics to judge what robotics will be like in 3050, barely 59 years after the war ended.

[cjv]

But prior to grandmother, she was NOT there, and they might have wanted/neede Robots.

And since we are talking about using a robot as a proto-Rai, this WOULD have occured right around when Grandmother was "born" in 3050.

Bringing up the concept that Grandmother cared for everything is moot, since Grandmother didn't exist prior to 3050.

You can't use facts about Grandmothers existance in 4000AD to argue about what life was like in Japan before she existed, before 3050.

Chris

3050 comes after the end of the Harbinger Wars in 2999, so the state of robotics between now and then doesn't have to be based on the state of robotics today.

Given the "world outside our window" model, it is possible for there to today (both in the VU and the real world) be robots that are more advanced than the ones seen in Magnus in Rai, but given that the Harbinger Wars take place between now and 3050, we can't use today's state of robotics to judge what robotics will be like in 3050, barely 59 years after the war ended.

That's not what I am saying at all.
You said that Japan didn't need robots, since Grandmother took care of everything.

Except we are talking about a proto-Rai in/about the year 3050 (let's say from 3050 to 3150). in 3050, there was no "grandmother". That was in 4000. So we don't know what they needed in 3050.

Robots were not needed in the year 4000AD in Japan. NOT in 3050 AD, when Grandmother was "born". We have no idea what the Japanese people had, didn't have, needed, or didn't need then. To say they didn't need robots because Grandmother took care of them doesn't make sense, since Grandmother wasn't "alive" until 3050, which is the time period we are talking about.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

That's not what I am saying at all.
You said that Japan didn't need robots, since Grandmother took care of everything.

Except we are talking about a proto-Rai in/about the year 3050 (let's say from 3050 to 3150). in 3050, there was no "grandmother". That was in 4000. So we don't know what they needed in 3050.

Robots were not needed in the year 4000AD in Japan. NOT in 3050 AD, when Grandmother was "born". We have no idea what the Japanese people had, didn't have, needed, or didn't need then. To say they didn't need robots because Grandmother took care of them doesn't make sense, since Grandmother wasn't "alive" until 3050, which is the time period we are talking about.

Chris

I'm pretty sure that we can guess quite accurarely what the people of Japan needed coming out of a 1000 year war. Just like everyone else, they needed to rebuild, and that rebuilding was Grandmother (or as it was called before it gained freewill, the Japanese Electronic Network).

Japan became a vas circuit board in 2500, 500 years into the war. 400 years later, in 2900 (99 years before the war ended) the Japanese Electronic Network was large enough to encompass the entire island).

150 years later, the JEN gained freewill and became Grandmother, at which point it began to take care of the populace.

Built to maintain every aspect of Japan’s functions, Japan’s central computer gained freewill in 3050. Dubbed Grandmother because of its desire to care for and protect the people of Japan, Grannie faced contempt from a group of citizens that felt oppressed by their lack of control over their own lives. Calling themselves Anti–Grannies, these citizens banded together to plot her downfall. To protect herself, Grandmother created Rai in the image of the 20h Century hero Bloodshot.

From the onset, JEN was built to mantain every aspect of Japan's functions, EVEN BEFORE it became freewill.

Unlike North American culture, Japanese culture didn't built billions of robots, they built ONE GIANT robot (the JEN) which then developed freewill.

[ManofTheAtom]

But prior to grandmother, she was NOT there, and they might have wanted/neede Robots.

And since we are talking about using a robot as a proto-Rai, this WOULD have occured right around when Grandmother was "born" in 3050.

Bringing up the concept that Grandmother cared for everything is moot, since Grandmother didn't exist prior to 3050.

You can't use facts about Grandmothers existance in 4000AD to argue about what life was like in Japan before she existed, before 3050.

Chris

Grandmother was NOT born in 3050. The JEN was built in 2500 until it became one vast circuit board in 2900 and gained freewill in 3050.

JEN was built to do for Japan what billions of individual robots did for North Am, mantain every aspect of Japan's functions.

The Japanese had need for robots, sure, so they built ONE MASSIVE robot called Grandmother.

[cjv]

Touche!

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Touche!

Chris

I think that the best two options for Proto-Rai are Shadowrai and X-O Raiowar, and either one could turn on Grannie and become the founder of the Anti-Grannies.

I like either idea and would like either one to get made.

If they go with Shadowrai, the imitation Darque energy that Grannie could use for it would be proto Rai energy, the one that later allows the Rais to make weapons.

If they go with X-O Raiowar, I can see one of Grannie's keepers stealing the XO seed and founding the Anti-Grannies to destroy the rogue AI

[cjv]

Lest you get a swelled head ( ) the "touche" was merely in response to the statement about Grandmothers birth, and what Japan was like prior to that. I now see that Grandmother "existed" for quite some time before she became freewill. Not only that, but she was designed to look after and protect Japan, even before she became freewill.

Hmmm...did Grandmother intiaited the Rai/Japan Champion concept, or perhaps it was incorporated into her programming...or perhaps the people who built Grandmother ALSO built some sort of protector/champion as well. And when she became freewill, she simply continued the project, eventually creating the human Rai.

However, I still maintain that a robot-Rai would be possible. EVEN IF robots and much of robotic technology was destroyed during the Harbinger wars, Grandmother may have the records and plans (designs, schematics, blueprints, etc) of robots (potentially including Proteus) that existed prior to her being built

(BTW, what comics describes when and how Grandmother was built, ie from a vast circuit board, and the Japanese Electronic Network?)

Chris

[cjv]

BTW, I don't like the idea of a "Shadowman" Rai. It just doesn't sit well with me.

Was Rai specifically desgined to look like Bloodshot? I seem to remember in Rai 0 that he was.

I do like the idea of reverse engineering alien technology from the XO suit to create a Rai armor or something (not actually XO Manowar, but something Grandmother designed). Or if not armor, then cybord technology like Ax, incorporating XO technology. In fact, that could be how Grandmother learned of the spider aliens, and started preparing for their possible attack.

I would love to see the origin of the Rai energy, though, and how Grandmother found it, tapped into it, and enabled people to tap into it.


Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Hmmm...did Grandmother intiaited the Rai/Japan Champion concept, or perhaps it was incorporated into her programming...or perhaps the people who built Grandmother ALSO built some sort of protector/champion as well. And when she became freewill, she simply continued the project, eventually creating the human Rai.

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/wiki/index.php/Rai

While reviewing the works of Joseph Campbell (The Power of Myth, The Hero With A Thousand Faces), Grannie birthed the idea to pattern a champion that would inspire the populace after the legendary warrior known as Bloodshot.

However, I still maintain that a robot-Rai would be possible. EVEN IF robots and much of robotic technology was destroyed during the Harbinger wars, Grandmother may have the records and plans (designs, schematics, blueprints, etc) of robots (potentially including Proteus) that existed prior to her being built

There is no indication of that. If she had such technology in 3050-3216, then why wasn't Japan crawling with robots a 1000 years later?

(BTW, what comics describes when and how Grandmother was built, ie from a vast circuit board, and the Japanese Electronic Network?)

Magnus #5

[ManofTheAtom]

Was Rai specifically desgined to look like Bloodshot? I seem to remember in Rai 0 that he was.

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/wik ... wo_Mothers

Standing before a holographic representation of the fabled Blood of Heroes, Rai listened as Grandmother explained that the genesis of his origin harkened back to the late Twentieth-Century, when a series of nano-computer experiments resulted in the creation of the legendary warrior known as Bloodshot. Hoping to invoke the spirit of his heroic exploits in her people, Grandmother patterned Rai after him. She gave birth to the idea while reviewing her library on the works of Joseph Campbell (The Power of Myth, The Hero With A Thousand Faces). Rai was the result of that research. As the Anti-Grannies had found the Blood of Heroes, Grandmother was worried that if they found a suitable latent psionic into whom they could inject the blood that being would posses, among other powers, total mental control over all electronic devices, including her.

The VALIANT Wiki... read it... learn it... love it

I do like the idea of reverse engineering alien technology from the XO suit to create a Rai armor or something (not actually XO Manowar, but something Grandmother designed). Or if not armor, then cybord technology like Ax, incorporating XO technology. In fact, that could be how Grandmother learned of the spider aliens, and started preparing for their possible attack.

She wasn't that well prepared, heh.

I would love to see the origin of the Rai energy, though, and how Grandmother found it, tapped into it, and enabled people to tap into it.

I think that may be what the new story might be more likely to explore, the discovery of the energy and the foundation of the Anti-Grannies.

[cjv]

Hmmm...did Grandmother intiaited the Rai/Japan Champion concept, or perhaps it was incorporated into her programming...or perhaps the people who built Grandmother ALSO built some sort of protector/champion as well. And when she became freewill, she simply continued the project, eventually creating the human Rai.

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/wiki/index.php/Rai

While reviewing the works of Joseph Campbell (The Power of Myth, The Hero With A Thousand Faces), Grannie birthed the idea to pattern a champion that would inspire the populace after the legendary warrior known as Bloodshot.

That could be read as

She birthed the idea of a champion.....which would pattern Bloodshot.

or

she birthed the idea to pattern a champion after Bloodshot. (IE, the idea of a champion already existed)

There is no indication of that. If she had such technology in 3050-3216, then why wasn't Japan crawling with robots a 1000 years later?

Because, as you say, there was little or no need for them since Grandmother existed.

We have the technology to make stema ships very easilly. We don't, because there is no need or desire for them.

(BTW, what comics describes when and how Grandmother was built, ie from a vast circuit board, and the Japanese Electronic Network?)

Magnus #5

Thanks.

Look - a robotic squirrel and lizard! link

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Look - a robotic squirrel and lizard! link

Chris

ooooooooooooooooooohh

[ManofTheAtom]

Magnus #5

Thanks.

[Virgule]

Actually I bit of looking at the arguments a bit sideways but were there not malev ship with technology though not actual robot I think in an issue of solar ? (and then wayyyyy in the past ?)

[ManofTheAtom]

Actually I bit of looking at the arguments a bit sideways but were there not malev ship with technology though not actual robot I think in an issue of solar ? (and then wayyyyy in the past ?)

That was alien technology, and they were computers that created an energy-based being. There were no robotics.

Grandmother is terran technology, and on Earth there were no such things as robots in the timeframe that is being discussed.