Miracleman?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

"Watchmen" was what it was, but it wasn't, ultimately, what Moore wanted in the end.

What do you mean by that?

the last issue isn't moore's

What is this in response to?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Hmmm.

It would have made sense to me if the last issue wasn't Alan Moore's. It just seemed to shift the whole story in a wierd direction, and felt starnge and unresolved. It seemed like the whole story was dealing with one set of ideas, and dealing with them really well, then all of a sudden a whole new idea was put into it to end the story.

It almost felt like Grant Morrison wrote the last issue instead of Alan Moore.

I wasn't talking about who wrote the last issue, if that's what the discussion was about (ignore creates some weird discussions sometimes). I was talking about the fight Alan had with DC over the merchandising and licensing rights, which is PRECISELY why Alan swore never to work for DC ever again, and why Watchmen "ended up" feeling weird and unresolved.

The issue wasn't whether Moore wrote what IS issue #12...the issue was that SOME feel that Moore deliberately tanked the last issue, and didn't hand over what he REALLY wrote, or had originally sketched out, or had in mind, because of his decaying relationship with DC.

So, in the end, Watchman ended up being not what he really wanted, hence my original statement.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

... #24 can sell for $40 on good days.

Granted, it's CGC graded, but it's only a 9.2, and it went for $96.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0177329513

MM #24 is a rare book to begin with, and an even rarer book in CGC high grade.

And: "it's CGC graded".

I see, however, that a couple of raw copies have been sold for $55 and $70 respectively, so I revise my statement to "#24 can sell for $60 on good days."

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I am incredibly surprised at the numbers Miracleman has been pulling recently:

http://cgi.ebay.com/COMPLETE-MIRACLEMAN ... dZViewItem

4-5 years ago, this was a solid $150-$200 set. 15 years ago, these books were cover price or less (mostly less.)

Amazing.

And it seems as if #15 is now the third most valuable 1980's comic....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Miracleman-3-11-12- ... dZViewItem

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Ouch....


http://cgi.ebay.com/Miracleman-15-Moore ... dZViewItem

[Dr. Solar]

Hmmm.

It would have made sense to me if the last issue wasn't Alan Moore's. It just seemed to shift the whole story in a wierd direction, and felt starnge and unresolved. It seemed like the whole story was dealing with one set of ideas, and dealing with them really well, then all of a sudden a whole new idea was put into it to end the story.

It almost felt like Grant Morrison wrote the last issue instead of Alan Moore.

I wasn't talking about who wrote the last issue, if that's what the discussion was about (ignore creates some weird discussions sometimes). I was talking about the fight Alan had with DC over the merchandising and licensing rights, which is PRECISELY why Alan swore never to work for DC ever again, and why Watchmen "ended up" feeling weird and unresolved.

The issue wasn't whether Moore wrote what IS issue #12...the issue was that SOME feel that Moore deliberately tanked the last issue, and didn't hand over what he REALLY wrote, or had originally sketched out, or had in mind, because of his decaying relationship with DC.

So, in the end, Watchman ended up being not what he really wanted, hence my original statement.

I guess that makes some sense. I thought that the Alan Moore's fight with DC came a bit later thogh, because I had heard that contractually, the rights to Watchmen would revert to Alan Moore when it went out of print. DC then just never took it out of print (which was unusual for the TPB printing practices of the time).

Maybe I'm misremembering.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Hmmm.

It would have made sense to me if the last issue wasn't Alan Moore's. It just seemed to shift the whole story in a wierd direction, and felt starnge and unresolved. It seemed like the whole story was dealing with one set of ideas, and dealing with them really well, then all of a sudden a whole new idea was put into it to end the story.

It almost felt like Grant Morrison wrote the last issue instead of Alan Moore.

I wasn't talking about who wrote the last issue, if that's what the discussion was about (ignore creates some weird discussions sometimes). I was talking about the fight Alan had with DC over the merchandising and licensing rights, which is PRECISELY why Alan swore never to work for DC ever again, and why Watchmen "ended up" feeling weird and unresolved.

The issue wasn't whether Moore wrote what IS issue #12...the issue was that SOME feel that Moore deliberately tanked the last issue, and didn't hand over what he REALLY wrote, or had originally sketched out, or had in mind, because of his decaying relationship with DC.

So, in the end, Watchman ended up being not what he really wanted, hence my original statement.

I guess that makes some sense. I thought that the Alan Moore's fight with DC came a bit later thogh, because I had heard that contractually, the rights to Watchmen would revert to Alan Moore when it went out of print. DC then just never took it out of print (which was unusual for the TPB printing practices of the time).

Maybe I'm misremembering.

Unless I'm totally high, according to Moore himself (and Gibbons), the issue over rights and merchandising and whatnot blew up DURING the series.....keeping in mind that the series came out over the course of a year......

Of course, Killing Joke was the last official DC work to see print that Moore did, but they were working on that all throughout 1987, and even though it didn't see print until roughly Feb-March 1988, it was certainly completed by Moore (who is the tightest scripter in the business) long before then.

Watchmen #12, with a 10/87 cover date, was almost certainly the last thing Moore wrote for DC.

[Dr. Solar]

Hmmm.

It would have made sense to me if the last issue wasn't Alan Moore's. It just seemed to shift the whole story in a wierd direction, and felt starnge and unresolved. It seemed like the whole story was dealing with one set of ideas, and dealing with them really well, then all of a sudden a whole new idea was put into it to end the story.

It almost felt like Grant Morrison wrote the last issue instead of Alan Moore.

I wasn't talking about who wrote the last issue, if that's what the discussion was about (ignore creates some weird discussions sometimes). I was talking about the fight Alan had with DC over the merchandising and licensing rights, which is PRECISELY why Alan swore never to work for DC ever again, and why Watchmen "ended up" feeling weird and unresolved.

The issue wasn't whether Moore wrote what IS issue #12...the issue was that SOME feel that Moore deliberately tanked the last issue, and didn't hand over what he REALLY wrote, or had originally sketched out, or had in mind, because of his decaying relationship with DC.

So, in the end, Watchman ended up being not what he really wanted, hence my original statement.

I guess that makes some sense. I thought that the Alan Moore's fight with DC came a bit later thogh, because I had heard that contractually, the rights to Watchmen would revert to Alan Moore when it went out of print. DC then just never took it out of print (which was unusual for the TPB printing practices of the time).

Maybe I'm misremembering.

Unless I'm totally high, according to Moore himself (and Gibbons), the issue over rights and merchandising and whatnot blew up DURING the series.....keeping in mind that the series came out over the course of a year......

Of course, Killing Joke was the last official DC work to see print that Moore did, but they were working on that all throughout 1987, and even though it didn't see print until roughly Feb-March 1988, it was certainly completed by Moore (who is the tightest scripter in the business) long before then.

Watchmen #12, with a 10/87 cover date, was almost certainly the last thing Moore wrote for DC.

Well, no wonder it sucked then!!!

[JLThorpe]

Hmmm.

It would have made sense to me if the last issue wasn't Alan Moore's. It just seemed to shift the whole story in a wierd direction, and felt starnge and unresolved. It seemed like the whole story was dealing with one set of ideas, and dealing with them really well, then all of a sudden a whole new idea was put into it to end the story.

It almost felt like Grant Morrison wrote the last issue instead of Alan Moore.

Apparently, he did.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=90814

[Draco]

Now that is a funny thread indeed.

Nice link.

cheers for the laugh.

[Zool]

I'm a huge Moore fan and have a particular interest in Watchmen, which is the comic which changed how I felt about the whole comics medium and is probably why I still buy comics, weekly, nearly twenty years since I first read it.

I've read every interview I can find on the subject, I've seen Alan Moore give an extended talk on his works in which he criticised his own work on the Killing Joke and spoke briefly about his fall out with DC (and Warner Bros, post his famous filmic bust-up over the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen).

Never, outside of this thread, have I heard any indication that Moore put anything other than his best into the final issue of Watchmen, or that it played out in a manner different to how he originally planned it (and he planned it in ridiculous detail, long before he wrote the issue).

Can anyone point me a link, or in the broad direction of an independant source that says otherwise?

[X-O HoboJoe]

Can anyone point me a link, or in the broad direction of an independant source that says otherwise?

Here ya go!

[Zool]

Can anyone point me a link, or in the broad direction of an independant source that says otherwise?

Here ya go!

Yeah, was kind of hoping for something a little moor[e] independent (and I realise I typo'd the first comment).

[X-O HoboJoe]

Can anyone point me a link, or in the broad direction of an independant source that says otherwise?

Here ya go!

Yeah, was kind of hoping for something a little moor[e] independent (and I realise I typo'd the first comment).

Moore Independent -- I'd buy a book with that title in a heartbeat.

[greg]

moor[e]

Moops!

[X-O HoboJoe]

moor[e]

Moops!

Try not to burst anyone's bubble.

[maraxusofkeld]

I had no idea that the print run on #15 was that low!

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Can anyone point me a link, or in the broad direction of an independant source that says otherwise?

Here ya go!

Yeah, was kind of hoping for something a little moor[e] independent (and I realise I typo'd the first comment).

Or even a little mo[o]re independent.....

Hey, I'm about as independent as it gets.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Hmmm.

It would have made sense to me if the last issue wasn't Alan Moore's. It just seemed to shift the whole story in a wierd direction, and felt starnge and unresolved. It seemed like the whole story was dealing with one set of ideas, and dealing with them really well, then all of a sudden a whole new idea was put into it to end the story.

It almost felt like Grant Morrison wrote the last issue instead of Alan Moore.

Apparently, he did.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=90814

Oh, man, that's just PAINFUL to watch....it's like the guy isn't satisfied with his OWN foot, he's got to eat everyone ELSE'S feet, too....

Quote:
Originally Posted by md62
Alan Moore wrote Watchmen.

Moore did V for Vendetta and a lot of other good books. Morrison did Watchmen. Their names sound similar so people get confused sometimes. You aren't the first person I heard make that error.

That just hurts. Poor ignorant guy....

[JohnnyRnR]

I can't recall where I read it (but I will attempt to figure it out), but I was under the impression that Watchmen 12 changed drastically as a result of DC editorial input.

[JohnnyRnR]

And happy 800th to me! PS, ZWH-what was in that Miracleman 15 link that read Ouch.. from you?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

And happy 800th to me! PS, ZWH-what was in that Miracleman 15 link that read Ouch.. from you?

I don't know....I checked to see myself...

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I can't recall where I read it (but I will attempt to figure it out), but I was under the impression that Watchmen 12 changed drastically as a result of DC editorial input.

Nice to know I'm not the only one.....

[Zool]

I can't recall where I read it (but I will attempt to figure it out), but I was under the impression that Watchmen 12 changed drastically as a result of DC editorial input.

I'd be really interested to read that (like I say, outside of this thread I've never encountered any hint of this before).

I'd personally I don't see any change in tone or content, structurally it's a little different because of all the splash pages, but then, it is the finale.

As for the Newsarama guy, he's clearly just mucking around.