What Really Killed VALIANT: Editorial Incompetence

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:04 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:All this time I thought low sales killed it.

That's the economics. This thread is about content

The accountants meet on another thread monday to friday from 3 to 4

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:06 pm

x-omatic wrote:The printed comic is only evidence of a mistake. Nothing more.
There is no way to know hwo the mistake happened. Maybe you want to blame teh editor for the pages being out of order in Magnus 57. I am sure he must have done that on purpose because there is no other possiblity. Unless someone else made a mistake. I mean, maybe the printer did it on purpose.

But we are not talking about the printing, we're talking about the content, like getting the name of the city wrong, coloring characters wrong, approving contradictory stories, merging characters out of ignorance.

Does someone have the exact job description of an editor handy?

Is it "Sit down and scratch your belly until the clock strikes 5?" Somehow I doubt it...

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:07 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
x-omatic wrote:The printed comic is only evidence of a mistake. Nothing more.
There is no way to know hwo the mistake happened. Maybe you want to blame teh editor for the pages being out of order in Magnus 57. I am sure he must have done that on purpose because there is no other possiblity. Unless someone else made a mistake. I mean, maybe the printer did it on purpose.
But we are not talking about the printing, we're talking about the content, like getting the name of the city wrong, coloring characters wrong, approving contradictory stories, merging characters out of ignorance.

Does someone have the exact job description of an editor handy?

Is it "Sit down and scratch your belly until the clock strikes 5?" Someone I doubt it...

Doing something out of ignorance in not the same as doing it "on purpose".

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:13 pm

x-omatic wrote:Doing something out of ignorance in not the same as doing it "on purpose".

The writer is ignorant, the editor is incompetent, not only for letting the comic be published with the mistakes on purpose, but not correcting them BEFORE they were made.

The editor starts by reading the script. A competent editor would have noticed that Ostrander got the name of Synchron and Neville Allcott wrong LONG before the script got to the penciller and letterer.

AFTER the script was pencilled, a COMPETENT editor would have noticed that the penciler drew a nonexistant character and told him to make the proper correction BEFORE it was inked, lettered, and colored.

A COMPETENT editor would have changed the wrong name of Synchron BEFORE the comic went to the printers.

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:14 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
x-omatic wrote:Doing something out of ignorance in not the same as doing it "on purpose".
The writer is ignorant, the editor is incompetent, not only for letting the comic be published with the mistakes on purpose, but not correcting them BEFORE they were made.

The editor starts by reading the script. A competent editor would have notuiced that Ostrander got the name of Synchron and Neville Allcott wrong LONG before the script got to the penciller and letter.

AFTER the script was pencilled, a COMPETENT editor would have noticed that the penciler drew a nonexistant character and told him to make the proper correction BEFORE it was inked, lettered, and colored.

A COMPETENT editor would have changed the wrong name of Synchron BEFORE the comic went to the printers.

You are right.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:14 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:Now, if this was DC or Marvel, do you think that the writers and editors would forget that Aunt May lives in Forest Hills, or that the asylum is called Arkham?

Marvel *IS* perfect. Tommy B says so right here.

What was the name of the book marvel published full of their mistakes? "Goof Book"? "Error Book"?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Now, if this was DC or Marvel, do you think that the writers and editors would forget that Aunt May lives in Forest Hills, or that the asylum is called Arkham?
Marvel *IS* perfect. Tommy B says so right here.

What was the name of the book marvel published full of their mistakes? "Goof Book"? "Error Book"?

No idea.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:24 pm

Here's another Ostrander great

In EW 40 Gilad says that his son has the jaguar spirit.

Last I checked, it was leopard spirit.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:34 pm

You're right, MOTA. It's all the editor's fault and they did it intentionally. In fact, Ostrander didn't even make those mistakes. He got those facts right when he turned in the stories. The editors changed the words. "On purpose." They also used magic markers to recolor hair in a few panels. On purpose. It was all intentional just as you said. The evidence is right there in the book. I mean, the only way mistakes can make it to the printed page is if it is intentional sabotage by the editors.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:35 pm

Heath wrote:You're right, MOTA. It's all the editor's fault and they did it intentionally. In fact, Ostrander didn't even make those mistakes. He got those facts right when he turned in the stories. The editors changed the words. "On purpose." They also used magic markers to recolor hair in a few panels. On purpose. It was all intentional just as you said. The evidence is right there in the book. I mean, the only way mistakes can make it to the printed page is if it is intentional sabotage by the editors.

ManofTheAtom wrote:The mistake here is that you're assigning a negaive connotation to the words "on purpose", like it was done for an evil motive.

That is not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that it was done on purpose (i.e. deliberately) in lieu of telling the writer and colorists that they made a mistake.

There is no evil intent, just simple incompetetence brought upon by fear of telling an uber popular writer that he was wrong.

The hive mind is real, I just witnessed it with your post

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:37 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Heath wrote:You're right, MOTA. It's all the editor's fault and they did it intentionally. In fact, Ostrander didn't even make those mistakes. He got those facts right when he turned in the stories. The editors changed the words. "On purpose." They also used magic markers to recolor hair in a few panels. On purpose. It was all intentional just as you said. The evidence is right there in the book. I mean, the only way mistakes can make it to the printed page is if it is intentional sabotage by the editors.

ManofTheAtom wrote:The mistake here is that you're assigning a negaive connotation to the words "on purpose", like it was done for an evil motive.

That is not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that it was done on purpose (i.e. deliberately) in lieu of telling the writer and colorists that they made a mistake.

There is no evil intent, just simple incompetetence brought upon by fear of telling an uber popular writer that he was wrong.
The hive mind is real, I just witnessed it with your post

He's on to me! Quick, somebody tell me what I'm supposed to think!!!

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:38 pm

I'm surrounded by pod people

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:46 pm

This one is just ridicolous.

In EW 40, on page 11 the character's name is Roy, but by page 28 it becomes Ray

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:48 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:This one is just ridicolous.

In EW 40, on page 11 the character's name is Roy, but by page 28 it becomes Ray

You have way too much time on your hands. Do you have a full time job?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:51 pm

x-omatic wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:This one is just ridicolous.

In EW 40, on page 11 the character's name is Roy, but by page 28 it becomes Ray
You have way too much time on your hands. Do you have a full time job?

Right now, it is to finish the summaries (9 to 5 job), on top of that I'm working on a graphic novel.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:58 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
x-omatic wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:This one is just ridicolous.

In EW 40, on page 11 the character's name is Roy, but by page 28 it becomes Ray
You have way too much time on your hands. Do you have a full time job?
Right now, it is to finish the summaries (9 to 5 job), on top of that I'm working on a graphic novel.

I will give you credit ... you're doing a great job with the info and doing all of us a service compiling this stuff (I hope you're getting paid well).

Above, you did not spell ridiculous correctly, because you are incompetent.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:59 pm

depluto wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
x-omatic wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:This one is just ridicolous.

In EW 40, on page 11 the character's name is Roy, but by page 28 it becomes Ray
You have way too much time on your hands. Do you have a full time job?
Right now, it is to finish the summaries (9 to 5 job), on top of that I'm working on a graphic novel.
I will give you credit ... you're doing a great job with the info and doing all of us a service compiling this stuff (I hope you're getting paid well).

Above, you did not spell ridiculous correctly, because you are incompetent.

No, I'm ignorant.

I'm a writer, not an editor

Wait...

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:00 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:45 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Now, if this was DC or Marvel, do you think that the writers and editors would forget that Aunt May lives in Forest Hills, or that the asylum is called Arkham?
Marvel *IS* perfect. Tommy B says so right here.

What was the name of the book marvel published full of their mistakes? "Goof Book"? "Error Book"?

Wasn't that the Fumetti book? I'm flying off the top of my head, so I could be wrong...

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:47 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Wasn't that the Fumetti book? I'm flying off the top of my head, so I could be wrong...

I remember Reed Richards with an extra hand instead of a foot (or was it a foot instead of a hand) and, of course, the cover to "Giant-Sized Man-Thing," but that's it.

Gosh-darned feeblemindedness!

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:48 pm

MOTA's right.

(God, I never, EVER thought I'd see myself typing that. Wow.)

Anyhoo....that's the job of an editor. They are supposed to EDIT the material.

They are supposed to fix any mistakes that make a book like a professional publication, rather than a high school term paper.

Readers have contempt...whether they acknowledge it or not...when they encounter mistakes in a book, regardless of whose fault it is.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:05 pm

Heath wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Heath wrote:You're right, MOTA. It's all the editor's fault and they did it intentionally. In fact, Ostrander didn't even make those mistakes. He got those facts right when he turned in the stories. The editors changed the words. "On purpose." They also used magic markers to recolor hair in a few panels. On purpose. It was all intentional just as you said. The evidence is right there in the book. I mean, the only way mistakes can make it to the printed page is if it is intentional sabotage by the editors.

ManofTheAtom wrote:The mistake here is that you're assigning a negaive connotation to the words "on purpose", like it was done for an evil motive.

That is not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that it was done on purpose (i.e. deliberately) in lieu of telling the writer and colorists that they made a mistake.

There is no evil intent, just simple incompetetence brought upon by fear of telling an uber popular writer that he was wrong.
The hive mind is real, I just witnessed it with your post
He's on to me! Quick, somebody tell me what I'm supposed to think!!!

"Buy more VALIANT."

[Hive Mind]

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:06 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:MOTA's right.

DANGER! ZWH'S ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED!

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:17 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:MOTA's right.
DANGER! ZWH'S ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED!

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:18 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
depluto wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
x-omatic wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:This one is just ridicolous.

In EW 40, on page 11 the character's name is Roy, but by page 28 it becomes Ray
You have way too much time on your hands. Do you have a full time job?
Right now, it is to finish the summaries (9 to 5 job), on top of that I'm working on a graphic novel.
I will give you credit ... you're doing a great job with the info and doing all of us a service compiling this stuff (I hope you're getting paid well).

Above, you did not spell ridiculous correctly, because you are incompetent.
No, I'm ignorant.

I'm a writer, not an editor

Wait...

You did that on purpose!