What Really Killed VALIANT: Editorial Incompetence

[ManofTheAtom]

From Ostrander's inability to keep the name of the robot state of Synchron right, to the blonde who become a brunette-who becomes a blonde in Geomancer, and finally the infamous panel mistake from Unity 2000 (Phil holding the wrong cover of the Doctor Solar comic), the VALIANT (and VH 2) books tended to suffer from some of the most strange editorial incompetence I've seen.

Just today, while doing the Timewalker summaries, I saw an editorial on the last issue promising a Timewalker mini series about Gilad, Aram, and Ivar meeting King Arthur.... but didn't Ostrander say that Gilad was King Arthur in one of his issues?!?!

If VEI is to succeed, they need competent editors, who will pay attention to the minutia and not fan service to the writers.

Note to all potential editors: writers do not always know best.

Be it Morrison, who wants Sue Richards to have sex with her brother, or Ostrander, who can't spell Synchron right, writers are fallible creatures who need guidance.

Left to their own devices, writers will do whatever they want and the only ones that will suffer are the readers and the characters (i.e. the properties).

[Cyberstrike]

I think also some it is the amount of titles an editor is editing that can also affect titles, when you one editor overseeing a line of say of 12 titles each with a different creative team you're going to have mistakes.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think also some it is the amount of titles an editor is editing that can also affect titles, when you one editor overseeing a line of say of 12 titles each with a different creative team you're going to have mistakes.

But surely both VALIANT and Acclaim had more than enough editors to oversee their lines.

And at the time Banmally and Marts were editing four titles; Q&W, U2K, Armorines, and Shadowman.

That wasn't too much, was it?

[IanAlexavier]

4 titles seems VERY reasonable..

I agree. Writers should write what the editors have hired them to write. Should writers have influence on title directions? Sure as long as its passed by the editor AND the editor truly approves. In other words, as long as the editor is truly in charge and not being a pushover because of a writers popularity.

Keep it small, keep it tight!

[BloodOfHeroes]

But surely both VALIANT and Acclaim had more than enough editors to oversee their lines.

And at the time Banmally and Marts were editing four titles; Q&W, U2K, Armorines, and Shadowman.

That wasn't too much, was it?

When I met Shooter in NYC, Omar stopped by to chat with Shooter and JayJay. Shooter made a point of telling Omar to his face that Acclaim had saddled him (Omar) with too many responsibilities.

I also remember Omar owning up to the wrong "Solar #1" cover scan, saying that he personally had scanned the wrong issue.

Sounded like they were spread too thin and working a lot of other jobs, other than the "traditional" editorial roles.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

From Ostrander's inability to keep the name of the robot state of Synchron right, to the blonde who become a brunette-who becomes a blonde in Geomancer, and finally the infamous panel mistake from Unity 2000 (Phil holding the wrong cover of the Doctor Solar comic), the VALIANT (and VH 2) books tended to suffer from some of the most strange editorial incompetence I've seen.

Just today, while doing the Timewalker summaries, I saw an editorial on the last issue promising a Timewalker mini series about Gilad, Aram, and Ivar meeting King Arthur.... but didn't Ostrander say that Gilad was King Arthur in one of his issues?!?!

If VEI is to succeed, they need competent editors, who will pay attention to the minutia and not fan service to the writers.

Note to all potential editors: writers do not always know best.

Be it Morrison, who wants Sue Richards to have sex with her brother, or Ostrander, who can't spell Synchron right, writers are fallible creatures who need guidance.

Left to their own devices, writers will do whatever they want and the only ones that will suffer are the readers and the characters (i.e. the properties).

Son of a GUN! I agree 1000% with this post!

[ManofTheAtom]

When I met Shooter in NYC, Omar stopped by to chat with Shooter and JayJay. Shooter made a point of telling Omar to his face that Acclaim had saddled him (Omar) with too many responsibilities.

I have a feeling that if Shooter did think that (and I believe you when you say he did) that he would have offered to help Omar and aliviate the editorial burden IF he trusted that what Acclaim was doing was for the good of the properties. He strikes me as being that sort of professional.

The fact that he didn't....

I also remember Omar owning up to the wrong "Solar #1" cover scan, saying that he personally had scanned the wrong issue.

Yet he made the same mistake in another issue

Sounded like they were spread too thin and working a lot of other jobs, other than the "traditional" editorial roles.

Is it any wonder that Marts jumped ship to Marvel to edit Nicieza on Gambit?

I remember that at the time Marts was the biggest U2K supporter, there was an interview about it at Mania.

Just look at what Pelham said about him

JP: We had all the hings. If we had everything hitting on all cylinders, it was going to move. It was going to be fantastic. Unfortunately, rapidly things started to spiral out of control.

MDT: Was there a single catalyst that precipitated this?

JP: One of the people who was the vision behind Unity 2000 and was going to be the driving force behind it left the company.

MDT: Was that Mike Marts, who had called Shooter?

JP: Yes. In many ways, Mike was the brainchild behind this thing. And he jumped ship. He decided he had a better offer over at Marvel. He had a better opportunity and he had to go for it. Unfortunately, the people that were left behind weren't up to the task of keeping the thing going.

[BloodOfHeroes]

I have a feeling that if Shooter did think that (and I believe you when you say he did) that he would have offered to help Omar and aliviate the editorial burden IF he trusted that what Acclaim was doing was for the good of the properties. He strikes me as being that sort of professional.

Well, he was being paid as a freelance writer. Nothing more, nothing less. Why do you think Shooter would volunteer to make copies/scan artwork/etc.?

And I think U2K tells you what Shooter thought about Acclaim.

And, MOTA? It's PeRham.

[BloodOfHeroes]

And, BTW, I agree that a solid editing team is critical for any publishing effort. I've said it before and I'll say it again: once Jeff Gomez left, so went the last of any editorial control. The books Gomez edited had the tightest continuity (including early VALIANT) I've ever seen.

[ManofTheAtom]

And, BTW, I agree that a solid editing team is critical for any publishing effort. I've said it before and I'll say it again: once Jeff Gomez left, so went the last of any editorial control. The books Gomez edited had the tightest continuity (including early VALIANT) I've ever seen.

Yeah, I noticed that while doing the summaries.

[ManofTheAtom]

And, MOTA? It's PeRham.

Are you sure it's not spelled V-I-P? Some people think it is

[JustCallMeAric]

I agree Editing was one of the problems. Oh yeah and the writing SUCKED

[depluto]

... writers are fallible creatures who need guidance.

So are editors, although editors are more likely to be overworked. And they generally get the final word over the writer ... after all, they see the product last.

What's the point here, that Valiant should hire qualified people and not overwork them? No *SQUEE*!

[cobra_commander]

Keep it small, keep it tight!

Words to live by

[Vault-Keeper]

It was Capitalism that killed Valiant.

[Heath]

But it was Video that killed the Radio Star.

[siren3-4]

It was beauty, killed the beast.

[IanAlexavier]

So, it was the writer that killed the editor that made the books so terrible that people stopped buying that encouraged the writers to write even worse as to drive the editor crazy and then no one bought the book that killed the series that was once a great universe where we all went to for weekly avoidance of the world outside of our window and now we are sad. (gasp for breath)...


.. and thats what broke baby birds balloon


But then in a universe far far away, several mighty men of valor gathered together their riches to use in purchasing that once grand universe and.....

[Squirrel]

It was Capitalism that killed Valiant.

who in thier right mind wouldnt turn up the presses with the success they were having? People bought those over pressed books, the bottom fell out on alot of companys, look at marvel, the largest of the comic companies. they fell HARD! Diffrent reason, but it happens to all companies, some have backers to help them back up....others don't.. but the strong will always come up in the end...thats why valiant is back...who cares what happened in the past, stop pointing fingers. Learn from it and go on. As they say " you can't change the past, only the future"

[ManofTheAtom]

Another example


Mallak vs Mallik

When Aric returned to 408/9 AD after Unity, he met Mallak, Alaric's advisor.

In the last three issues of XO, Aric met Mallik, a wizard.

I bet that Layton intended for Aric to meet Mallak, but forgot the name and wrote it as Mallik, and the editor did not catch it (just like they didn't catch Ostrander's mistakes with Synchron).

[xodacia81]

From Ostrander's inability to keep the name of the robot state of Synchron right, to the blonde who become a brunette-who becomes a blonde in Geomancer, and finally the infamous panel mistake from Unity 2000 (Phil holding the wrong cover of the Doctor Solar comic), the VALIANT (and VH 2) books tended to suffer from some of the most strange editorial incompetence I've seen.

Just today, while doing the Timewalker summaries, I saw an editorial on the last issue promising a Timewalker mini series about Gilad, Aram, and Ivar meeting King Arthur.... but didn't Ostrander say that Gilad was King Arthur in one of his issues?!?!

If VEI is to succeed, they need competent editors, who will pay attention to the minutia and not fan service to the writers.

Note to all potential editors: writers do not always know best.

Be it Morrison, who wants Sue Richards to have sex with her brother, or Ostrander, who can't spell Synchron right, writers are fallible creatures who need guidance.

Left to their own devices, writers will do whatever they want and the only ones that will suffer are the readers and the characters (i.e. the properties).

I've been arguing this as a major reason for ages.

[Vault-Keeper]

It was Capitalism that killed Valiant.

who in thier right mind wouldnt turn up the presses with the success they were having? People bought those over pressed books, the bottom fell out on alot of companys, look at marvel, the largest of the comic companies. they fell HARD! Diffrent reason, but it happens to all companies, some have backers to help them back up....others don't.. but the strong will always come up in the end...thats why valiant is back...who cares what happened in the past, stop pointing fingers. Learn from it and go on. As they say " you can't change the past, only the future"

My point isn't the huge print runs, gimmicks, etc. My point is that Shooter was cheated out of HIS dream company by greedy partners. Thus, Capitalism killed Valiant (or Shooter's dream of it, which most of us thought was the first death-nail for Valiant in general). And this happened in Spring 1992, way before the mega print runs which started that Fall with Bloodshot #1.

[depluto]

Another example


Mallak vs Mallik

When Aric returned to 408/9 AD after Unity, he met Mallak, Alaric's advisor.

In the last three issues of XO, Aric met Mallik, a wizard.

I bet that Layton intended for Aric to meet Mallak, but forgot the name and wrote it as Mallik, and the editor did not catch it (just like they didn't catch Ostrander's mistakes with Synchron).

That sounds like a mistake to me. I think it's pretty *SQUEE* harsh and rude of you to slap an "incompetent" tag on people who make mistakes.

[ManofTheAtom]

That sounds like a mistake to me. I think it's pretty *SQUEE* harsh and rude of you to slap an "incompetent" tag on people who make mistakes.

It's not rocket science, it's editing comics. It's not that hard to pay attention to things like the name of the robot's city or that Gilad was established as being King Arthur... all that requires is to read the comics.

It's a fairly simple thing to do.

If the people who made the darn things (and got paid to do it to boot) could not bother to give a damn, is it any wonder that readers stopped giving a damn too?

Now, if this was DC or Marvel, do you think that the writers and editors would forget that Aunt May lives in Forest Hills, or that the asylum is called Arkham?

[depluto]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Everybody who makes a mistake is incompetent. Marvel and DC, those guys never make mistakes. Perfect and competent, which is why their lines of comics are still around.

Criticize all you want, but those are real people you are talking about. A newspaper such as the New York Times has some of the most skilled editors in the world, and yet mistakes get in there. So I guess they are incompetent.

Jim Shooter sure made some mistakes. Incompetent.

Tom Brady kept getting sacked in the Super Bowl. Incompetent.

Warren Buffett made some bad stock picks. Incompetent.

George W. Bush led us into a war in Iraq. Incompetent.

Oh, uh, wait a second ...