Apathy

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:05 pm

Is it me or does it seem next to impossible to drum up any interest in anything, VALIANT or otherwise, when going around to comic shops and conventions? Maybe I'm doing it wrong or I'm speaking to the tougher parts of the crowd, but at least 2/3rds of the people I speak to don't even seem interested in knowning that ANYTHING is happening. Such as, I mentioned the Harbinger OPTION for a film. This is followed, often, by people saying "well, that doesn't mean there is a movie coming." This is something I understand, but they miss the point.

These characters, these properties, are back in the public eye and if stores had any sense, they would embrace anything positive going on instead of yawning and wondering why the walls are crashing down around thier heads. In the case of the one store I was at earlier in the week, the man said "well, nobody ever cared about VALIANT to begin with, so why would they ever make a movie? I think it's just a rumor." THIS is even WORSE. Official announcements of OPTIONS are dismissed as RUMOR by people too stupid to do give themselves a shampoo in the morning. Besides, in the case of VALIANT, a great many people DID care back when books were coming out. Sure, speculation helped drive sales but it wasn't the market as much as bad marketing that killed VALIANT. I will say that as much frustration as I have over this, for every 10 people negative about VALIANT, I find one or two who recall the titles very fondly. It's just sad to see a once-great industry felled, in great part, by a lack of interest and passion, from those involved in selling the product.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:15 pm

A good majority of the LCS dudes have a bad taste in the mouth about Valiant.

Some don't even know what Valiant is.

Bottom line, if the new product is good, everything will be fine.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:23 pm

Yeah, people still have a bad taste in their mouth. Until Valiant's noticeable and triumphant return, just buy up all their copies of Rai 3 for less than a buck. I pulled a Rai 3, Rai 5, Magnus 11, Vintage Magnus 4, and Solar 11 for ten cents each yesterday. Wouldn't be possible in a world where folks know Valiant is on the rise.

Also, I say this for perspective only, but it's VEI's job to create awareness and excitement about their books, not ours. I will talk about Valiant with folks all day long, but it is up to them to make people want to listen.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:26 pm

Dr. Solar wrote:Yeah, people still have a bad taste in their mouth. Until Valiant's noticeable and triumphant return, just buy up all their copies of Rai 3 for less than a buck. I pulled a Rai 3, Rai 5, Magnus 11, Vintage Magnus 4, and Solar 11 for ten cents each yesterday. Wouldn't be possible in a world where folks know Valiant is on the rise.

Also, I say this for perspective only, but it's VEI's job to create awareness and excitement about their books, not ours. I will talk about Valiant with folks all day long, but it is up to them to make people want to listen.

Agreed

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:01 pm

I agree that we're going to have to wait for people to get excited.

I have faith in VEI and have been following any news I could get very closely, but I can genuinely understand why there isn't more excitement because no definitive creative personnel have been announced, nor have any release dates.

So there's nothing really solid there to hang on to.

Once a quality product starts hitting the stands, a new fanbase will grow and fans from earlier will return.

As far as the movie goes, there is again legitimate reason to hold back any excitement until casting news and a shooting date begins.

I'm excited, but i can understand why the general public might be apathetic. Movie deals are unreliable, and often disappointing when they hit the theaters -- and Valiant will actually have to start producing new books on a regular basis.

As for local LCS guys, they are often a unique breed I no longer pretend to udnerstand. Perhaps I've been lucky in that most of the ones I've run into have been really good people.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:26 pm

It's going to take awhile for the ones who got burnt overspeculating to come around again. Their last memories of Valiant were not a good experience and many were left with tons of books they couldn't give away in the end. Other people either don't know about Valiant or don't care until they see it listed in Wizard as a "hot" pick.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:43 pm

They don't really like having to sell books in the bargain bins. especially if they originally received them as new releases.

People tend to think of books in the bargain bin as not being any good.

I've had to fight this mentality before, noting that just about every character finds some of their books in a bargain bin. People try to put down something I like by saying it was so bad they can pick up a lot of the run in the bargain bin. But its easy for me to tell them how I've found issues of books they like in bargain bins too.

nevertheless, its a mindset that will take some time to erase.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:54 pm

I think DJ has it right, anyone that got burnt the first time around will be sceptical and till new material (comics) start coming out no one besides us will care then

attn will come

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:59 pm

There is a plus side, to all, as noted. We who know of VALIANT can still pick up the issues for much less than they will start going for if things really take off once new books hit the shelves. I mean, I doubt Turok # 1 will ever be even a 2 dollar book, but who knows. Meanwhile, Harbinger 1 may once again regularly book for 50+. I'm not really in it for profit, although I'm not opposed to selling a book or two here and there. I want to have as close to a complete run before the new titles start hitting the shelves and I don't think I'm alone. Am I going to sell my collection? No, not a chance. It's going to be a legacy.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:08 pm

xodacia81 wrote:Meanwhile, Harbinger 1 may once again regularly book for 50+.

Looks like it's already happening....

-Brian

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:13 pm

betterthanezra wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:Meanwhile, Harbinger 1 may once again regularly book for 50+.
Looks like it's already happening....

-Brian

Get yer Harbies, here...step right up,. don't be shy...Hurry hurry hurry...(says all the hoarders)

JustCallMeAric · Post by **JustCallMeAric** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:16 pm

The guys at my shop like Valiant alot but not everyone knows about them yet.........but they will

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:24 pm

JustCallMeAric wrote:The guys at my shop like Valiant alot but not everyone knows about them yet.........but they will

If VEI could get even half the market these books had in, say, 93, they'd be doing great. Especially as a "startup"

Asharad · Post by **Asharad** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:32 pm

Let us remember that price speculation and overselling/overhype is what busted valiant. I don't care if my old comics increase in price, because I never intend to sell them (just like my old Star Wars toys).

Anyone a fan of Firefly? It was a short run TV show, but it was the best in recent memory. I'll settle for new stories that are well thought out, even if VEI is not successful in the long term. Of course the long term goal is Valiant forever, but I'd settle for good run of stories.... and a movie!

myron · Post by **myron** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:10 am

Daniel Jackson wrote:It's going to take awhile for the ones who got burnt overspeculating to come around again. Their last memories of Valiant were not a good experience and many were left with tons of books they couldn't give away in the end. Other people either don't know about Valiant or don't care until they see it listed in Wizard as a "hot" pick.

Many of those that got burned aren't in the business anymore...probably for the better

JustCallMeAric · Post by **JustCallMeAric** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:24 am

myron wrote:
Daniel Jackson wrote:It's going to take awhile for the ones who got burnt overspeculating to come around again. Their last memories of Valiant were not a good experience and many were left with tons of books they couldn't give away in the end. Other people either don't know about Valiant or don't care until they see it listed in Wizard as a "hot" pick.
Many of those that got burned aren't in the business anymore...probably for the better

It all went bad because people got greedy and started to hoard and over collect *SQUEE*. I feel bad for them because I know people lost a lot of money but to me the moral of the story is dont collect for money

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:28 am

Dr. Solar wrote:Yeah, people still have a bad taste in their mouth. Until Valiant's noticeable and triumphant return, just buy up all their copies of Rai 3 for less than a buck. I pulled a Rai 3, Rai 5, Magnus 11, Vintage Magnus 4, and Solar 11 for ten cents each yesterday. Wouldn't be possible in a world where folks know Valiant is on the rise.

Also, I say this for perspective only, but it's VEI's job to create awareness and excitement about their books, not ours. I will talk about Valiant with folks all day long, but it is up to them to make people want to listen.

Wowzers!

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:55 am

JustCallMeAric wrote:
myron wrote:
Daniel Jackson wrote:It's going to take awhile for the ones who got burnt overspeculating to come around again. Their last memories of Valiant were not a good experience and many were left with tons of books they couldn't give away in the end. Other people either don't know about Valiant or don't care until they see it listed in Wizard as a "hot" pick.
Many of those that got burned aren't in the business anymore...probably for the better
It all went bad because people got greedy and started to hoard and over collect *SQUEE*. I feel bad for them because I know people lost a lot of money but to me the moral of the story is dont collect for money

Or maybe if they would have actually read the books they would have known when to stop ordering so many copies. Any fan of Valiant could see when the books started to slide. Too bad the LCS owners couldn't see it.

JustCallMeAric · Post by **JustCallMeAric** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:02 am

Agreed

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:19 am

Elveen wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:Yeah, people still have a bad taste in their mouth. Until Valiant's noticeable and triumphant return, just buy up all their copies of Rai 3 for less than a buck. I pulled a Rai 3, Rai 5, Magnus 11, Vintage Magnus 4, and Solar 11 for ten cents each yesterday. Wouldn't be possible in a world where folks know Valiant is on the rise.

Also, I say this for perspective only, but it's VEI's job to create awareness and excitement about their books, not ours. I will talk about Valiant with folks all day long, but it is up to them to make people want to listen.

Wowzers!

The annoying thing is that they put their store stamp in the cover of each on to mark it as a ten cent book. That is really annoying, especially with the Rai 3. It would have been in VF to VF/NM condition without the stamp. Stupid lame comic shop.

Then they wouldn't sell me a Solar 10 with a RUSTED STAPLE in it for $5. Other than that, it was pretty nice, but a rusted staple brings down the grade a bit, I'd say.

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:20 am

Apathy amongst comic book collectors and retailers is a massive problem i have and it wont ever likely change.

Too many reason to list.

Ill have a go tomorrow when i can see properly. At this time im still reeling from the comic mart i did on sunday after not sleeping saturday nite.

It hurts

maraxusofkeld · Post by **maraxusofkeld** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:22 pm

I think one of the reasons for apathy is mosf of the dealers probably lost a ton of money hoarding the books while they were hot and extremely expensive. Then they watched them plumet down in value and had to sell them off for extremely cheap prices just for somewhat of profit. A LCS relatively near was voted the best shop in NE PA for a few years and he barely had any Valiants when I went there over spring break. He said when they started to really loose value he had to sell to free up inventory space because no one was buying.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:41 pm

You know, given the demise of Valiant, and the problems retailers had with speculation (which in part they were responsible for), I can't really fault retailers for being apathetic. I mean, how many "startup comic companies" have there been that have failed, never really amounting to much? Do retailers have any reason to think VEI is any different?

I think it is up to us to convince retailers there is a difference, both by our words (talking it up) and actions (ordering the comics through them).

Once retailers see that VEI can make them money, I think they will become much less apathetic. But until then, they will remain so.

Of course, it is a vicious cycle. Retailers are apathetic, don't promote a company among their customers, the company doesn't get enough readers and fails, retailers point out yet another failed startup comic company.

Chris

MoonChild · Post by **MoonChild** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:42 pm

There are those who felt the backlash and took a loss and there are those who didn't know or care about Valiant in the first place. There are also US and newcomers hungry for original storylines. I say, good for us, they can take thier assumptions as reality all they want. I'll keep taking the Pre-Unity's & Shadowman III's for a quarter

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:49 pm

That's true, every apathetic retailer is one who will sell a CEAR for $1 or something like that.

Chris