Shadowman by...

[dellamorte]

Bob Hall should write and draw Shadowman, starting with issue #44, set immediately following #43. Continue the story through to his death in 1999 (either at the same pace it would originally have been or slightly faster) and that be the end of it.

I don't know that I would be interested in anyone other than Bob Hall doing the book.

I'm willing to try anything that gets put out but I agree Bob Hall is the man for the job.

[jedimarley]

Bob Hall should write and draw Shadowman, starting with issue #44, set immediately following #43. Continue the story through to his death in 1999 (either at the same pace it would originally have been or slightly faster) and that be the end of it.

I don't know that I would be interested in anyone other than Bob Hall doing the book.

I'm willing to try anything that gets put out but I agree Bob Hall is the man for the job.

Hall or nothing!

[dellamorte]

Bob Hall should write and draw Shadowman, starting with issue #44, set immediately following #43. Continue the story through to his death in 1999 (either at the same pace it would originally have been or slightly faster) and that be the end of it.

I don't know that I would be interested in anyone other than Bob Hall doing the book.

I'm willing to try anything that gets put out but I agree Bob Hall is the man for the job.

Hall or nothing!

What a great slogan. We should form a campaign to get Bob the job.

[Knightt]

Jack died in Erica's pre-Unity time line. That time line was changed because of the Unity.

*SQUEE* ! here we go again!

jm, none of this matters... the last issue of X-O Manowar says/finishes it all. The entire Valiant universe NEVER happened, it was all just a dream. I've even posted this for the 'new owners' to read. It is carte blanche', a clean slate, a blank check... they can pick up from Aric on the spaceship and take it anywhere they want it. We were duped...

But I can accept that, if new stories just start from there. You can add/delete whatever you wanted. Hell, tell the stories the exact same way if desired. It was a dream.

Debate over. No more quarters. No more ammunition. Fix bayonets. (man, have I got a war story about those two words... 'fix bayonets'.)

[ManofTheAtom]

Jack died in Erica's pre-Unity time line. That time line was changed because of the Unity.

*SQUEE* ! here we go again!

jm, none of this matters... the last issue of X-O Manowar says/finishes it all. The entire Valiant universe NEVER happened, it was all just a dream. I've even posted this for the 'new owners' to read. It is carte blanche', a clean slate, a blank check... they can pick up from Aric on the spaceship and take it anywhere they want it. We were duped...

But I can accept that, if new stories just start from there. You can add/delete whatever you wanted. Hell, tell the stories the exact same way if desired. It was a dream.

Debate over. No more quarters. No more ammunition. Fix bayonets. (man, have I got a war story about those two words... 'fix bayonets'.)

Huh, so VEI is really DC is disguise.

I thought it was VALIANT. Damn.

[Knightt]

.......

della... what are the guys saying in your avatar ?

[Knightt]

blah blah same old $hit blah

Hey MOTA, whats going on ? Now how about you STFU... ok ? buh-bye...

[ManofTheAtom]

Jack died in Erica's pre-Unity time line. That time line was changed because of the Unity.

*SQUEE* ! here we go again!

jm, none of this matters... the last issue of X-O Manowar says/finishes it all. The entire Valiant universe NEVER happened, it was all just a dream. I've even posted this for the 'new owners' to read. It is carte blanche', a clean slate, a blank check... they can pick up from Aric on the spaceship and take it anywhere they want it. We were duped...

But I can accept that, if new stories just start from there. You can add/delete whatever you wanted. Hell, tell the stories the exact same way if desired. It was a dream.

Debate over. No more quarters. No more ammunition. Fix bayonets. (man, have I got a war story about those two words... 'fix bayonets'.)

Huh, so VEI is really DC is disguise.

I thought it was VALIANT. Damn.

Hey MOTA, whats going on ? Now how about you STFU... ok ? buh-bye...

How about you kiss my *SQUEE*?

[Knightt]

Jack died in Erica's pre-Unity time line. That time line was changed because of the Unity.

*SQUEE* ! here we go again!

jm, none of this matters... the last issue of X-O Manowar says/finishes it all. The entire Valiant universe NEVER happened, it was all just a dream. I've even posted this for the 'new owners' to read. It is carte blanche', a clean slate, a blank check... they can pick up from Aric on the spaceship and take it anywhere they want it. We were duped...

But I can accept that, if new stories just start from there. You can add/delete whatever you wanted. Hell, tell the stories the exact same way if desired. It was a dream.

Debate over. No more quarters. No more ammunition. Fix bayonets. (man, have I got a war story about those two words... 'fix bayonets'.)

Huh, so VEI is really DC is disguise.

I thought it was VALIANT. Damn.

Hey MOTA, whats going on ? Now how about you STFU... ok ? buh-bye...

How about you kiss my *SQUEE*?

Where at ? From the photos I've seen there is enough of it for the whole state of California to find a spot.

Now go back to what you were doing with your life... whatever that is.

[Knightt]

.......

della... what are the guys saying in your avatar ?

[Asharad]

If you are writing Shadowman, and wish to adhere to the death of Jack continuity, there are still ways to write new stories post mortem:

Story A) Jack dies, but Voodoo Nettie brings him back from the dead

- or -

Story B) In 1997 Jack is transported to 2009 by (Nettie? Timewalker? Phil? Other?) to deal with a new necromancer. In 2019, Jack is forced to return to 1997.

- or -

Story C) Jack dies. New Shadowman.

I'm sure there are others.

[dellamorte]

.......

della... what are the guys saying in your avatar ?

They're singing a song. Don't ask me what song it is.

[ManofTheAtom]

If you are writing Shadowman, and wish to adhere to the death of Jack continuity, there are still ways to write new stories post mortem:

Story A) Jack dies, but Voodoo Nettie brings him back from the dead

- or -

Story B) In 1997 Jack is transported to 2009 by (Nettie? Timewalker? Phil? Other?) to deal with a new necromancer. In 2019, Jack is forced to return to 1997.

- or -

Story C) Jack dies. New Shadowman.

I'm sure there are others.

The problem with A and C is the same... Why?

Why would Nettie bring back Jack, and why would there need to be a new Shadowman?

In the original VALIANT Universe, Shadowman's sole purpose was to defeat Master Darque, and the idea here is that Darque dies with Jack in 99 when Jack rids the world of the Darque Power.

Jack dies riding the world of the Darque Power.

Once there is no longer any Darque Power, Sandria Darque dies.

Once Sandria dies, her brother, who was linked to her, dies too.

Once Darque ceases to exist, there is no need for another Shadowman.

B only works if Jack is catapulted in time to 2937 to fulfill Elya's prophecy that he would return from the dead... but that would be anti-climactic.

[dellamorte]

If you are writing Shadowman, and wish to adhere to the death of Jack continuity, there are still ways to write new stories post mortem:

Story A) Jack dies, but Voodoo Nettie brings him back from the dead

- or -

Story B) In 1997 Jack is transported to 2009 by (Nettie? Timewalker? Phil? Other?) to deal with a new necromancer. In 2019, Jack is forced to return to 1997.

- or -

Story C) Jack dies. New Shadowman.

I'm sure there are others.

The problem with A and C is the same... Why?

Why would Nettie bring back Jack, and why would there need to be a new Shadowman?

In the original VALIANT Universe, Shadowman's sole purpose was to defeat Master Darque, and the idea here is that Darque dies with Jack in 99 when Jack rids the world of the Darque Power.

Jack dies riding the world of the Darque Power.

Once there is no longer any Darque Power, Sandria Darque dies.

Once Sandria dies, her brother, who was linked to her, dies too.

Once Darque ceases to exist, there is no need for another Shadowman.

B only works if Jack is catapulted in time to 2937 to fulfill Elya's prophecy that he would return from the dead... but that would be anti-climactic.

The problem is, and I'm not going to say this more than once, you are the only one who believes all of that. Everyone else sees shades of gray and all you see is black and white.

Of course there is more than one possible outcome. I believe in Valiant and the strong continuity. I believe dead is dead. But this story has yet to be told so who the *SQUEE* knows what happens.

[Asharad]

Why?

Because people want a Shadowman comic. Or if you prefer a story driven reason, because shortly after the destruction of Master Darque, a new threat emerges. Maybe Dr. Mirage turns evil.... lol

Jack is cool, and we're bringing him back.

[ManofTheAtom]

The problem is, and I'm not going to say this more than once, you are the only one who believes all of that. Everyone else sees shades of gray and all you see is black and white.

Of course there is more than one possible outcome. I believe in Valiant and the strong continuity. I believe dead is dead. But this story has yet to be told so who the *SQUEE* knows what happens.

You claim to want Hall to write the comics, yet now you want the stories to contradict the very things he set up.

You are a hypocrite.

Why do you want Hall to write the stories if you don't want him to follow through with what he started?

He has said that he would have killed Jack.

[ManofTheAtom]

Why?

Because people want a Shadowman comic. Or if you prefer a story driven reason, because shortly after the destruction of Master Darque, a new threat emerges. Maybe Dr. Mirage turns evil.... lol

Jack is cool, and we're bringing him back.

The idea that a new threat arises is a compelling one, but it would still requiere a reason for why Shadowman, or Jack specifically as stated in reason A, would have to be the one that confronts it.

In my op, Dr. Mirage died in 99 for the same reasons Sandria did. Without any Darque Power, he was unable to mantain himself in his energy form

[Asharad]

I haven't be around here long, but it doesn't take long to see there are some foul attitudes here. Wow.

[ManofTheAtom]

I haven't be around here long, but it doesn't take long to see there are some foul attitudes here. Wow.

Yeah, that happens when talking about the death of Jack.

Most people here want him to live forever, except me. I'd rather that the story was resolved.

[Asharad]

I agree. I want it resolved, but only after we get 5 years worth of stories that were never written by the guy that never killed him.

[ManofTheAtom]

I agree. I want it resolved, but only after we get 5 years worth of stories that were never written by the guy that never killed him.

But then we'd have to wait until 2013 for the story to be resolved. What would that accomplish?

What would you rather have?

A four issue mini series as the one proposed above that resolves the story once and for all

Or

A monthly series that struggles to find an audience that might get canceled before it has a chance to establish itself and get anywhere near resolving the story?

I'd rather have the former, and then, maybe someday, the latter.

[dellamorte]

The problem is, and I'm not going to say this more than once, you are the only one who believes all of that. Everyone else sees shades of gray and all you see is black and white.

Of course there is more than one possible outcome. I believe in Valiant and the strong continuity. I believe dead is dead. But this story has yet to be told so who the *SQUEE* knows what happens.

You claim to want Hall to write the comics, yet now you want the stories to contradict the very things he set up.

You are a hypocrite.

Why do you want Hall to write the stories if you don't want him to follow through with what he started?

He has said that he would have killed Jack.

If I had a say I would want Hall to do the death of Shadowman. Does that mean it's the only option? What I want and what is possible are two very different things. That is the part you fail to understand.

I don't think anyone has ever said Jack did not die in 1999, they said it is possible that he lived. Two very different things.

If I'm a hypocrite, you are an idiot.

[Heath]

I agree. I want it resolved, but only after we get 5 years worth of stories that were never written by the guy that never killed him.

But then we'd have to wait until 2013 for the story to be resolved.

But you know, I'd be fine with that. Because we know how the story ends. Jack dies riding the world of the Darque Power. I'm not as interested in his death as I am in his life up to that point.

Nobody wants to see more Shadowman stories than me. But, I totally agree with MOTA here that, if established Valiant continuity is to be kept (and I'm conveniently ignoring the last issue of XO here), then Jack dies in 1999 and ridding the world of the Darque Power also kills Sandria, Master Darque and Doctor Mirage, and there is no further need for another Shadowman.

But we know how it ends. I want to see how we get there. It's Jack's journey to that event, his handling of the knowledge that he will die, the impact he has on others, all told by Bob Hall that I think is the real story. Not the 1999 event itself. Because it's that story that gives the 1999 event and Jack's death real meaning.

What about this: First, do a special issue that focuses on the death of Jack Boniface. Or include a detailed telling of the 1999 event in a mini-series that covers the "missing years." Just get that out of the way. Then, accompany that with Shadowman #44 and up exploring Jack's life journey to that event.

Yes there are workarounds with time travel and such that could keep Jack alive or create the need for a new Shadowman, but that would cheapen the story of Jack Boniface and his sacrifice and the Valiant idea of continuity.

[Knightt]

The problem is, and I'm not going to say this more than once, you are the only one who believes all of that. Everyone else sees shades of gray and all you see is black and white.

Of course there is more than one possible outcome. I believe in Valiant and the strong continuity. I believe dead is dead. But this story has yet to be told so who the *SQUEE* knows what happens.

You claim to want Hall to write the comics, yet now you want the stories to contradict the very things he set up.

You are a hypocrite.

Why do you want Hall to write the stories if you don't want him to follow through with what he started?

He has said that he would have killed Jack.

If I had a say I would want Hall to do the death of Shadowman. Does that mean it's the only option? What I want and what is possible are two very different things. That is the part you fail to understand.

I don't think anyone has ever said Jack did not die in 1999, they said it is possible that he lived. Two very different things.

If I'm a hypocrite, you are an idiot.

Why do you even respond to MOTA ? You empower him by even considering his ridiculous rantings that he has been banned for before. Totally ignore him, if you think he is an idiot, totally take him out of the thread (even if he started it, which he has a nasty habit of doing and then flying SO CLOSE to the envelope that Greg put in front of him. He is still getting his word out there and causing the 'poison' on the boards that Greg has mentioned so many times before... only because we let him do it. You KNOW where all conversations will end up.... just where you are now, YOU are wrong and HE is right... the 'guy' cannot accept anything less and there is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS some kind of controversy, strife or argument when he is involved in a thread. He is not capable of normal human thought and is narrow minded as they come... to the point of being dangerous. But people keep referring to him for knowing SO MUCH about the continuity, when that is what it may appear to be but it is only his perception about the comic reality in which there is valid discussion. You Will hardly ever see this 'guy' agree with someone but on most occasions he purposely goes the opposite direction on what people say... very much like a person with sociopathic tenancies. If there was anyone who LIVED for 'drama' it is MOTA.

Take his 'power' (that he envisions that he has) away... sure read what he says but act like he is not even there. Once people realize that you could not de-bone this guy and use him as a wetsuit (thats pretty worthless) and acknowledge him as the oxygen thief that he is... he will no longer be what he has been to this board for far too many long years.... a menace. A cancer that was cut out before and only by grace was allowed to be let back into our community. Ahhh the garden used to be such a nice place to hang out it.... then the weeds were let back in and here we are in the same boat as before, not in a pleasant boat just sailing along but a boat without wind in it's sails, that has a hole in it where are ankles are deep into the water and to top it all off, someone p!ssed in the water... and that water smells like MOTA.

Ignore what he has to say... the negative FAR out weights the good.

Take him out of the equation... problem solved.

Well, you would need Kirkman to write Shadowman... how else but as a zombie could Jack carry his own series, right? I mean, he did die in 99.

Jack as a Zombie... that's gold

With the above statement ALONE, he destroyed the thread with the very same thought process that got him banned in the first place... and just how nice was it when he was gone. Some boo hooed, oh I miss MOTA but ya know, you didnt get circular thought for page upon page nor strife just for the sake of strife.

[Knightt]