What if?

[ManofTheAtom]

Of course it would, because last time DC and Marvel's talent pool worked at VALIANT, it worked SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well for them.

yeah Jim Shooter and David Lapham would be horrible choices to work on VALIANT

You mean VALIANT's architect and a penciller known mostly for his indy work? No, they wouldn't be horrible choices.

The rest of the talent pool, the fanboys who grew up with 1960's DC *SQUEE* comics would. They already *SQUEE* VALIANT up a decade ago, WHY do you want them to do it again?

What makes you think they won't do now what they did back then?

[Ryan]

You mean VALIANT's architect and a penciller known mostly for his indy work? No, they wouldn't be horrible choices.

The rest of the talent pool, the fanboys who grew up with 1960's DC *SQUEE* comics would. They already *SQUEE* VALIANT up a decade ago, WHY do you want them to do it again?

What makes you think they won't do now what they did back then?

I think you're generalizing too much, there is a huge variety of talent at DC (with Wildstorm, Vertigo, etc.) including a lot of other Valiant vets from the good days like Rags Morales and up and comers who had nothing to do with VH2.

You're right about Valiant needing to keep its uniqueness and not just become a DC2 or whatever. That would come from the leadership, not individual pencilers, inkers, etc. I'm not saying Dan Didio should be EiC of Valiant, just that having a strong parent company like Time Warner/WB/DC would be huge help to Valiant right now. The two things are completely different.

[ManofTheAtom]

Then let VEI hire those people ON THEIR OWN, they DON'T need DC to own the company or help them publish comics to do that.

They already published a graphic novel all on their lonesome and are going to publish another one, without DC to help them, like you say, or without doing a crossover with DC and Marvel like MProyas wants them to.

Surprisingly enough, VEI has shown that they do have the ability to produce, print, and market the VALIANT characters all on their own.

I don't know where this lack of trust on VEI comes from, what it was that they did that has people like you and MProyas doubt their ability to publish VALIANT comics, but it's completely UNFOUNDED.

To reiterate, VEI does NOT need DC OR Marvel, they are a completely individual, independant company that has shown to have the resources to back up their investment of the VALIANT properties.

The comics may not be coming out as fast as we'd like to, but they ARE coming out.

If this concern you have is due to VIP and Diamond not carrying the product, I'm gonna give you a tip, from fanboy to fanboy, from reader to reader.

IT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS

WE, as readers, DO NOT need to concern ourselves with HOW publishers conduct business, how they get their product in the store (whether it's through Diamond, independant distribution, or messenger pigeon)... OUR only concern, as readers, is to figure out who the hell wins in a fight, Mighty Mouse or Magnus, nothing more, and nothing less.

Btw, Magnus wins since Mighty Mouse is a cartoon character and Magnus is a real person *


*if you don't get the joke, rent Stand By Me.

[Ryan]

fact is no one knows the financial status of VEI or what their plans are. We're just speculating based on observed facts and business realities.

[ManofTheAtom]

fact is no one knows the financial status of VEI or what their plans are. We're just speculating based on observed facts and business realities.

When the speculation is "the only way VEI will succeeded is by having crossovers with DC and Marvel" and "VEI will only succeeded if they hire the same people who screwed VALIANT 10 years ago", you should probably reconsider your line of thinking.

Hiring DC's stable of fanboy writers didn't help 10 years ago, and it won't help today, just like doing crossovers with Marvel won't help now any more than it did back then.

A better idea would be to think of ways in which VALIANT can be *gasp* VALIANT, and look at the stuff that worked back then instead of what didn't.

Zero issues worked.

Hiring DC writers didn't.

Strong continuity worked

Crossing over with Marvel didn't.

Today VEI's short stories could be considered to be akin to the Zero issues as, just like the 0 issues before them, they offer something that expands on the characters and concepts (insteas of detract from them, as a crossover with Krypto or Kitty Pride's dragon would), while the reprints they're doing reflect their strong continuity (which is preferable to their hiring fanboys who'd rather turn VALIANT into a poor man's version of 1960's DC so they could pander to their nostalgia)

But to answer your question, VEI's financial status is really none of your or my business.

We're not stockholders in their company, we're the consumers/readers, and as such our only concern is whether or not Mighty Mouse is stronger than Magnus, period.

[Ryan]

When the speculation is "the only way VEI will succeeded is by having crossovers with DC and Marvel" and "VEI will only succeeded if they hire the same people who screwed VALIANT 10 years ago", you should probably reconsider your line of thinking.

That's not really at all what I said or was implying. It's hard to have a meaningful back and forth discussion with you since you tend to hear whatever you want to hear. I stand by my original post which was a response to MProyas' original question.

[ManofTheAtom]

That's not really at all what I said or was implying.

Yes it is.

[BloodOfHeroes]

That's not really at all what I said or was implying. It's hard to have a meaningful back and forth discussion with you since you tend to hear whatever you want to hear. I stand by my original post which was a response to MProyas' original question.

Ryan,

Please join the rest of the support group on the "Secret Board."

BoH

[ManofTheAtom]

That's not really at all what I said or was implying. It's hard to have a meaningful back and forth discussion with you since you tend to hear whatever you want to hear. I stand by my original post which was a response to MProyas' original question.

Ryan,

Please join the rest of the support group on the "Secret Board."

BoH

That must be like the Batcave. Fitting with the DC lite ideology.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

So wait......DC now has 52 universes.....? Really....?

[ManofTheAtom]

So wait......DC now has 52 universes.....? Really....?

Yeah, but they don't have a giant monster in the center of it like VALIANT did.

[slym2none]

If I ever make a "What If..." type thread here, someone cyber-slap me.





-slym

[ManofTheAtom]

If I ever make a "What If..." type thread here, someone cyber-slap me.





-slym

What If is a Marvel term.

You're a member of the Marvel Marching Society posing as a VALIANT fan, aren't you?

[slym2none]

What If is a Marvel term.

Tell that to MProyas. He started this very thread.



-slym

[ManofTheAtom]

What If is a Marvel term.

Tell that to MProyas. He started this very thread.



-slym

(that was a jest post/cyber slap

Remember the episode of Simpsons where Lisa and the members of MENSA take over the town?

There's a scene where Carl makes a remark that Lenny thinks was "too smart" and that it meant Carl was one of "them", so he punched him.

Your use of What If makes you "one of them" regardless of who used it first, heh)

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Ok, now seriously....some of my posts may have *SQUEE* some of you off, even to the point of screaming in your home office at the top of your lungs (Prozac, anyone?)...

But have any of my posts ever just made you want to shoot yourself in the head.....?

Be honest, now....

[ManofTheAtom]

Nope

[slym2none]

Remember the episode of Simpsons where Lisa and the members of MENSA take over the town?

Nope - I'm more of an "Inuyasha" type of cartoon guy.



-slym

[The Harbinger]

let's make litter out of these literati

[ManofTheAtom]

let's make litter out of these literati

That's too smart!!

You're one of them!

[Zool]

Hypothetical, not at all based on any information I know nor even that I would want this to occur.

Would you consider not supporting Valiant if they decided it was more cost effective to become an imprint of DC? The reason I choose DC is with the thought or understanding that the Valiant Universe would become one of the 52.

Without learning anything more than that, no solicitations, no published work, no timeframes or any idea where the creative team might go from there.

The question is, would you outright not support future Valiant endeavors based solely upon that business decision?

Quoting the original post for clarity.

If VALIANT, under VEI's stewardship were to become an imprint of DC (in the Wildstorm model) that would not in any way effect my purchacing of VALIANT books as long as the quality of books was high and in keeping with what I want VALIANT books to be.

Now I'm not a completist like many here but my VALIANT would be a revisiting of character led stories that were 'realer' in there adherence to science and existed in a tightly editted continuity (like the Shooter era). If it differed wildly from this I'd be less interested, if it was different but still good I'd probably still pick up titles, if it was rubbish I'd not bother.

This is a simple decision for me, based on an equation of quality.

Do I think VALIANT could be, well, STILL VALIANT as an imprint of a larger publisher? I don't see theoretically why not.

Wildstorm is an interesting imprint, not least because it started out as, well, parts of a seperate universe and has maintained a style, a flavour, that is very unique from its parent company, and it's not become mired in crossovers (which never work on an extended basis anyway, but can produce some interesting stories).

Of course I'd prefer VEI stay independant and become a real contender in the comics world with the VALIANT universe at their foundation, but right now I'll approach the next twist in the VALIANT tale with an open mind and an open wallet and only a few bad books will change that stance.

[Zaphod]

Again, you assume. I am actually refering to Deathmate. It was a *SQUEE* poor crossover, you won't get any arguement there from me but it occured.

Did it affect Valiant continuity? Nope. Does any future crossover (inevitable or not...time will decide) have to affect any future Valiant continuity? Nope.

Actually, Deathmate first perfectly within VALIANT continuity, check out Rai #0 and the prologue.

Unlike the crossover with Iron Man, the ones with Nexus, Predator, and Image did NOT contradict ANYTHING with VALIANT continuity. Predators, Nexus, and Image characters were NEVER established as being fictional in the VALIANT Universe. Marvel and DC characters were.

Most of all, the crossover with Image was not done to increase sales, as you say, it was done because Massarsky and Jim Lee were friends. It was akin to two children playing together with their toys.

Its pretty much a time honored tradition though, when sales are down...It never occured with Shooters Valiant but then, Shooter hasn't exactly had a run in comics not under the DC or Marvel brands where the rug was pulled out from under him prematurely?

Maybe for you it's a tradition. It doesn't mean it HAS to happen.

Just because you want it to happe and expect it to happen it doesn't mean it HAS to.

Why was the rug pulled? Money. So in my mind, for all of his greatness Shooter still hasn't proved that it can be done in my mind.

And for all my money, Nicieza proved that doing it was not a good idea.

Deathmate didn't affect the Valiant continuity either way, to my knowledge none of those stories were brought up or dealt with in the Valiant U. Please correct me if I am wrong, I have not read every Valiant book.

I never stated crossovers were tradition to me, yet every significant comic book company has done it. I never stated I wanted it or needed it...you know you can attempt to make your argument without skewing other peoples arguments. You were a politician in another life, weren't you?

[Zaphod]

I have to say, I find that pic very offensive. A friend of mine who was mentally *SQUEE* just passed away and that is NOT funny.

I mean no offense to you and I am sorry to hear about your friend but if my friend had a handicapped mentally I certainly wouldn't refer to them as mentally *SQUEE*.

[ManofTheAtom]

Deathmate didn't affect the Valiant continuity either way, to my knowledge none of those stories were brought up or dealt with in the Valiant U. Please correct me if I am wrong, I have not read every Valiant book.

Deathmate happened as a result of VALIANT continuity. The prologue opened on a scene first seen in Rai #0, in which Solar allowed Gayle to die and then split up into two separate beings, the Explorer and Solar (Prime).

Two things I liked about that issue were that it fit perfectly into continuity, like a round ball in a round hole, and that BWS pencilled it, which means that BWS penciled the beginning and middle of Solar's story (too bad he didn't do the end in Invasion.... UNLESS that was NOT the end, heh).

I never stated crossovers were tradition to me, yet every significant comic book company has done it. I never stated I wanted it or needed it...you know you can attempt to make your argument without skewing other peoples arguments. You were a politician in another life, weren't you?

Aks not what VALIANT can do for you, ask what you can do for VALIANT

[Zaphod]

I blame all this on MProyas... he started this thread, after all.



-slym

what, all I did was ask if Valiant could be ressurected and flourish under DC as a publisher, like Wildstorm. Wildstorm is one of the 52 so I don't know if/how Valiant could get out from being also one of the 52.

but its been entertaining either way.