What if?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:11 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Who died in 2020.
Yeah, that was one of the times he died.

BoH

Oh that.

Archer's two "deaths" are completely debatable. They were all in his head.

The one from Rai 0 was final, Charlene cremated the body.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:16 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:Sure, I can. Deathmate. X-O/Iron Man. VH-2.

Deathmate did not involve a multiverse. The word is not uttered once.

Deathmate involved two true alternate realities colliding, but that was it.

X-O/Iron Man contradicts every thing about the VALIANT Universe (something you have a real problem grasping. You seem to be of the idea that "since it was published, it must count regardless of the contradictions"), and VH 2 was Nicieza's attempt to turn VALIANT into DC comics to get people who like that crap to read the comics.

All he did was kill the company, but you seem to think that was a good thing.

Except it happened in the Valiant Universe. That's a fact, boy.

No it didn't.

Again, Crescendo DIED before the crossover, meaning that she COULD NOT have been in it, which means that wherever in "continuity" the crossover took place in, it was NOT VALIANT continuity.

Anthony, we've been at this for almost EIGHT years, you do realize that, right?

You have to understand that despite Nicieza's popularity the man is NOT perfect, he CAN make mistakes, and X-O/Iron Man IS such a mistake.

The man was too LAZY to research the characters he worked on, and he was too much of an IDIOT to understand that he was hired to edit VALIANT, NOT Marvel OR DC.

He tried to turn the company into something it was NOT, and by his OWN admision, he used Marvel's Cosmic Cube to accomplish his goal.

Just because he wrote it and it got published, it does NOT mean that the story negates EVERYTHING that came before which made the story unlikely and impossible to happen in the first place, like Crescendo being DEAD, Iron Man and the Marvel Universe being established as fictional in VALIANT, and Aric discovering that everything after X-O Manowar #1 was a dream.

NONE of those things went away and didn't happen just because Nicieza didn't like them.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:46 am

I blame all this on MProyas... he started this thread, after all.

-slym

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:49 am

Draco wrote:i would buy anything that comes out with Valiant characters and DC are capable of making so many people take a peek so what do you think?

I think it would be nice if this thread would get back on this topic, which you so artfully tried to do with this very post I quote above. Maybe quoting it will help...

-slym

rlute11 · Post by **rlute11** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:29 am

I'm not going to quote the post on page two, but if anyone was wondering.......6,547.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:34 am

rlute11 wrote:I'm not going to quote the post on page two, but if anyone was wondering.......6,547.

WHY did you count all of those???

-slym

rlute11 · Post by **rlute11** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:45 am

slym2none wrote:
rlute11 wrote:I'm not going to quote the post on page two, but if anyone was wondering.......6,547.

WHY did you count all of those???

-slym

....I was bored?

The bigger questions is, why couldn't he add 3 more? THREE MORE!!!!!

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:10 am

Again.....DC has 52 universes....?

Byrneout · Post by **Byrneout** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:37 am

Well, here's a disturbing thought...

Widlstorm is Universe 50 in the DC Universe, even though it is mainly left completely alone by DC.

Universe 50 is home to WildC.A.T.s, Gen 13, WetWorks, etc.

You know, some of the "stars" of Deathmate.

Think about that for a second.

.
.
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So, basically, the Valiant Universe has already appeared within the DC multiverse, because at one point, the Valiant Universe merged with DC Universe 50 (the Wildstorm universe).

thePike · Post by **thePike** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:31 am

So I got a question... (sorry, didn't read every post above, seemed like the same old thing repeating itself every other post)

IF...

Valiant characters can't interact with any Marvel character because Marvel comics characters have been mentioned as fictional entities:

THEN...

How can Solar (Phil Seleski) interact with Magnus, Robot Fighter in VH1 since VH1 Solar is based from Doctor Solar comic books which was published by Gold Key who also published Magnus, Robot Fighter?

If Doctor Solar, Man of the Atom was a Gold Key comic in Phil Seleski's world, it only stands to reason that Gold Key Magnus Robot Fighter was also therfore making it impossible for Solar to bring Magnus to the future since the character would be established as fictional.

Just a thought...

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:50 am

thePike wrote:How can Solar (Phil Seleski) interact with Magnus, Robot Fighter in VH1 since VH1 Solar is based from Doctor Solar comic books which was published by Gold Key who also published Magnus, Robot Fighter?

If Doctor Solar, Man of the Atom was a Gold Key comic in Phil Seleski's world, it only stands to reason that Gold Key Magnus Robot Fighter was also therfore making it impossible for Solar to bring Magnus to the future since the character would be established as fictional.

Just a thought...

It's a good one--very logical--but Shooter greatly disliked the poor science of Doctor Solar, which is why Phil Seleski becomes the Valiant MotA. MRF and Turok were "real," with their Gold Key history left intact, and only DSMotA was considered "fiction" and an inspiration to an impressionable Seleski.

Just one of the laws of Valiant. Additionally, The Gold Key tales were self-contained; the "Big 3" never met, is my understanding, until VALIANT published them.

BoH

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:53 am

MProyas wrote:The question is, would you outright not support future Valiant endeavors based solely upon that business decision?

Nope. I'd be onboard, at least to start, regardless. I'd like to see the characters develop and grow, not just remain static. (Bloodshot vs Grifter, anyone?)

BoH, who apologizes for contributing to the sidetracking of this thread...

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:37 am

rlute11 wrote:....I was bored?

The bigger questions is, why couldn't he add 3 more? THREE MORE!!!!!

they didn't fit. character limit

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:59 am

Cheers Slym

slym2none wrote:
Draco wrote:i would buy anything that comes out with Valiant characters and DC are capable of making so many people take a peek so what do you think?
I think it would be nice if this thread would get back on this topic, which you so artfully tried to do with this very post I quote above. Maybe quoting it will help...

-slym

The actual point is still unanswered by most so how about we get this moved to a new thread with a poll. Can someone do this for us please.
Would you buy Valiant Titles if published by another company i.e Marvel or DC if they left Valiant well enough alone?
YES !

NO !!!

MAybe !!

cheers

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:22 pm

I'm up for whatever publishing plan gives the new books the best chance to survive and find and audience. If it means DC or Marvel I will support it. That wouldn't be my first choice but I will support it.

The only thing that would cause me to not support new Valiant books would be if they sucked and even then I think I would stick it out for a bit.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:24 pm

Of course, because the last time VALIANT relied on DC and Marvel it worked SOOOO well for them

Just last week Acclaim Comics released Ninjak #100, in which the Legion of Super-Heroes teamed up with Ninjak and X-O Manowar to fight Marvel's Masters of Evil, who were after Woody's goat to get control of its interdimensional hopping abilities so they could become Masters of Multiversal Evil.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:28 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Again.....DC has 52 universes....?

Yep.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:24 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:Of course, because the last time VALIANT relied on DC and Marvel it worked SOOOO well for them

Just last week Acclaim Comics released Ninjak #100, in which the Legion of Super-Heroes teamed up with Ninjak and X-O Manowar to fight Marvel's Masters of Evil, who were after Woody's goat to get control of its interdimensional hopping abilities so they could become Masters of Multiversal Evil.

I bought the Nude Goat variant cover. Two actually. I'll sell my dupe copy to a board member for cost, plus S&H.

BoH

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:25 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Of course, because the last time VALIANT relied on DC and Marvel it worked SOOOO well for them

Just last week Acclaim Comics released Ninjak #100, in which the Legion of Super-Heroes teamed up with Ninjak and X-O Manowar to fight Marvel's Masters of Evil, who were after Woody's goat to get control of its interdimensional hopping abilities so they could become Masters of Multiversal Evil.
I bought the Nude Goat variant cover. Two actually. I'll sell my dupe copy to a board member for cost, plus S&H.

BoH

Pfft, nude cover.

You haven't experienced a true Acclaim Comic until you get the tactile variant cover with the nipples on the women's chest sticking out.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:29 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:Pfft, nude cover.

You haven't experienced a true Acclaim Comic until you get the tactile variant cover with the nipples on the women's chest sticking out.

Oh, for THAT one I have a rare "innie" printing error.

BoH

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:30 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Pfft, nude cover.

You haven't experienced a true Acclaim Comic until you get the tactile variant cover with the nipples on the women's chest sticking out.
Oh, for THAT one I have a rare "innie" printing error.

BoH

Putting a hole in the cover with a pair of scissors doesn't make it a variant.

Byrneout · Post by **Byrneout** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:56 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Pfft, nude cover.

You haven't experienced a true Acclaim Comic until you get the tactile variant cover with the nipples on the women's chest sticking out.
Oh, for THAT one I have a rare "innie" printing error.

BoH
Putting a hole in the cover with a pair of scissors doesn't make it a variant.

That's not what the guy who sold me this said:

It was MUCH better than the newstand variant!

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:21 pm

MProyas wrote:Hypothetical, not at all based on any information I know nor even that I would want this to occur.

Would you consider not supporting Valiant if they decided it was more cost effective to become an imprint of DC? The reason I choose DC is with the thought or understanding that the Valiant Universe would become one of the 52.

Without learning anything more than that, no solicitations, no published work, no timeframes or any idea where the creative team might go from there.

The question is, would you outright not support future Valiant endeavors based solely upon that business decision?

I think this would be a great idea. It would give much needed stability to the VALIANT universe and company both financially and legally. Let's face it they're having a hard enough time just putting out Reprints, I think the average fan underestimates the tremendous amount of time, money, talent and resources needed to get a long-term, stable comic book company/universe off the ground.

Another strength would be DC's vast talent pool to draw from (which currently contains Jim Shooter and David Lapham) as well as DC's industry experience and marketing clout (being able to advertise for free in all DC books and using advertising streams that DC has already opened).

Maybe the fanboys don't want to hear it, but IMO something like a joint-venture or buyout from a larger company like DC or Dark Horse is the only way we'll see a large scale VALIANT re-launch anytime soon.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:25 pm

Of course it would, because last time DC and Marvel's talent pool worked at VALIANT, it worked SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well for them.

They sold millions, upon millions of comics, and Acclaim Comics became the number 1 publisher in the entire universe.

Just last week they published the Krypto/Goat special with 3D cover.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:36 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:Of course it would, because last time DC and Marvel's talent pool worked at VALIANT, it worked SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well for them.

yeah Jim Shooter and David Lapham would be horrible choices to work on VALIANT

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