Jim Shooter's Post Unity VALIANT Universe

[ManofTheAtom]

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... 390ad5b5ab

Psi-Borgs instead of HARD Corps.

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/postunit.pdf

Lilora instead of Elya

Andar the Geomancer

Zacharia Muldoon instead of Fred Bender

Jillian dies

One Great Enemy instead of Immortal Enemy

Rising Spirit instead of Bloodshot

The secret of the Harbinger strain revealed in Eternal Warrior

Laughter in the Dark instead of Master Darque

And even Bob Layton as the new ongoing Solar writer instead of Kevin Vanhook.

All those things make for a very interesting "what might have been", don't they?

Imagine if that was the VALIANT Universe VEI decided to publish and just ignore everything after Unity.

[Draco]

If everyone (almost) is in agreement that Shooter was and still is the main man for this gig then its all good for me.

Let say they decide to say " hey *SQUEE* it lets start from unity end and see what happens with these original Shooter concepts"
Somehow tie it in with the whole tangent timeline thing and go for it.

Im there.

who's with me?

[IanAlexavier]

Im there too..

Immortal Enemy is fine..

Laughter in the Dark?? Master Darque! (Who needs another Joker?)

Psi Borgs... ug!

Rising Spirit

Eternal Grandfather... Hmm, not sure but I bet it would make a cool read.. Kinda like Heroes

[BloodOfHeroes]

Laughter in the Dark?? Master Darque! (Who needs another Joker?)

Well, it actually reads "Laugher in the Dark" (no "T")

BoH

[ManofTheAtom]

Laughter in the Dark?? Master Darque! (Who needs another Joker?)

Well, it actually reads "Laugher in the Dark" (no "T")

BoH

Too true.

So it's "he who laughs", not the sound that's heard.

It does sound Jokerish, though.


Edit


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!


I did it again!! I wasted the 1,000th post making a meaningless point!!!!

[Draco]

I agree that some of the ideas could work but some are a bit lame. Maybe they could do with mixing the old with the new to really work.

who knows

[Dr. Solar]

Congrats on 6000 posts.

Or the same post made 6000 times.

Or whatever it is you do.

[ManofTheAtom]

Congrats on 6000 posts.

Or the same post made 6000 times.

Or whatever it is you do.

[MoonChild]

Let's Just Hope they hit the shelves for us, for now

[Zaphod]

I don't see it happening. Don't see VEI laying waste to "well known" intellectual properties that they purchased simply to appease zealous fanboys who would prefer the company acknowledge a year and a half of published work rather than seven or eight years of published work.

Its a shame that when Ron Perelman saved Marvel from the brink of bankruptcy in the late 80's, that he didn't wipe out all of that 70's and 80's crap and take it back to the first year of Marvel, back when it really meant something and before the Spider buggy, the Spidey Clone Saga and anything remotely releated to Disco.

Businesses don't tend to shoot themselves in the foot like that.

[Spagg]

If everyone (almost) is in agreement that Shooter was and still is the main man for this gig then its all good for me.

Let say they decide to say " hey *SQUEE* it lets start from unity end and see what happens with these original Shooter concepts"
Somehow tie it in with the whole tangent timeline thing and go for it.

Im there.

who's with me?

I am with you !!

[thePike]

I don't see it happening. Don't see VEI laying waste to "well known" intellectual properties that they purchased simply to appease zealous fanboys who would prefer the company acknowledge a year and a half of published work rather than seven or eight years of published work.

Its a shame that when Ron Perelman saved Marvel from the brink of bankruptcy in the late 80's, that he didn't wipe out all of that 70's and 80's crap and take it back to the first year of Marvel, back when it really meant something and before the Spider buggy, the Spidey Clone Saga and anything remotely releated to Disco.

Businesses don't tend to shoot themselves in the foot like that.

I suppose it kind of depends how you look at it.

What does VEI actually have to gain from the existing material? It's already been printed, the money has already been made - there really isn't a whole lot to garner from these books except on a collectors market and perhaps reprint value (which we've already seen with the Harby HC).

Just because VEI owns it doesn't mean it's all going to be used. Owning it could be a way of being able to reprint some of the material. Owning it oculd be a ways of just preventing other junk companies like vip from trying to undermine VEI's efforts.

[user1463]

Related:

viewtopic.php?t=18382

[dellamorte]

Congrats on 6000 posts.

Or the same post made 6000 times.

Or whatever it is you do.

, a rare laugh out loud moment on the board for me.

[dellamorte]

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... 390ad5b5ab

Psi-Borgs instead of HARD Corps.

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/postunit.pdf

Lilora instead of Elya

Andar the Geomancer

Zacharia Muldoon instead of Fred Bender

Jillian dies

One Great Enemy instead of Immortal Enemy

Rising Spirit instead of Bloodshot

The secret of the Harbinger strain revealed in Eternal Warrior

Laughter in the Dark instead of Master Darque

And even Bob Layton as the new ongoing Solar writer instead of Kevin Vanhook.

All those things make for a very interesting "what might have been", don't they?

Imagine if that was the VALIANT Universe VEI decided to publish and just ignore everything after Unity.

Doesn't seem like much of an improvement over what we got. A bunch of name changes (most for the better), Geoff stayed the geomancer instead of Andar (no big loss here IMO), Jillian was better off left alive (again IMO). About the only interesting things lost are the secrets of the Harbinger strain being revealed (A story that can easily be done without sacrificing anything) and Layton writing Solar (that would have been interesting).

[BloodOfHeroes]

Doesn't seem like much of an improvement over what we got. A bunch of name changes (most for the better), Geoff stayed the geomancer instead of Andar (no big loss here IMO)

I like that Shooter planned a different Geomance, at least for a while. Just goes to show that you can tell a lot of off-panel stories and not contradict Rai #0.

And any Geomancer is better than Geoff. ANY. At least, in this reader's opinion.

BoH

[ManofTheAtom]

Doesn't seem like much of an improvement over what we got. A bunch of name changes (most for the better), Geoff stayed the geomancer instead of Andar (no big loss here IMO)

I like that Shooter planned a different Geomance, at least for a while. Just goes to show that you can tell a lot of off-panel stories and not contradict Rai #0.

And any Geomancer is better than Geoff. ANY. At least, in this reader's opinion.

BoH

Well, there's no reason to believe that Geoff would have been the Geomancer in Rai #0 if Andar had become the Geomancer.

Remember, there is one scene in Unity in which Mothergod apparently killed Geoff. Maybe the original plan was for him to really die and they decided to keep him alive at the last minute, hence the Rai Companion story that showed how he survived.

[BloodOfHeroes]

Well, there's no reason to believe that Geoff would have been the Geomancer in Rai #0 if Andar had become the Geomancer.

Um, the fact that the book was plotted and drawn already, when the Geomancer Andar hadn't been, is reason enough for me.

BoH

[myron]

Well, there's no reason to believe that Geoff would have been the Geomancer in Rai #0 if Andar had become the Geomancer.

Um, the fact that the book was plotted and drawn already, when the Geomancer Andar hadn't been, is reason enough for me.

BoH

[ManofTheAtom]

Well, there's no reason to believe that Geoff would have been the Geomancer in Rai #0 if Andar had become the Geomancer.

Um, the fact that the book was plotted and drawn already, when the Geomancer Andar hadn't been, is reason enough for me.

BoH

How can you know that? Rai #0 came out months after the issue in which Geoff apparently died.

The solicit would have been written and submitted to Diamond when the idea was to kill Geoff and replace him with Andar. A solicit has to be sent to Previews WELL in advance.

Geoff appared to die in Eternal Warrior 32, cover dated September of 1992 (which would make it the issue offered in the issue of Previews that came out before the one in the PDF linked above).

Clearly the Solar #14 solicit in that file was written with the idea that Geoff would die during Unity.

None of the comics solicited above would have been finished by the time the solicits came out. Obviously the plots mentioned above were all changed since what they say was going to happen didn't.

[xodacia81]

I think Layton mentioned somewhere that he had to "finish" Unity # 1, so clearly, some things may have changed. I know from different sources that Shooter worked a bit slowly and didn't leave as much finished work as some would suspect. Therefore, it is feasible that the reason for the Lost Land being the site of Unity was twofold. One, was because the entire concept just fit. Two, because Andar was there and had already begun to be set up as the next Geomancer. It would have been an interesting dynamic, with Andar as Geomancer and Turok out hunting down Biosaurs but, I still like the idea that Aram was always meant to be the Geomancer, as I do believe there is a line in one of the early issues-possibly EW # 1-where Aram says something about the earth. It might have just been a great retcon from latter VALIANT, but it was one of the coolest ideas in the entire line, I thought. As for Geoff dying, I wonder at which point he would have perished? Speculation is fun, but I think the way things went off right after Unity was great, as is.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think Layton mentioned somewhere that he had to "finish" Unity # 1, so clearly, some things may have changed. I know from different sources that Shooter worked a bit slowly and didn't leave as much finished work as some would suspect. Therefore, it is feasible that the reason for the Lost Land being the site of Unity was twofold. One, was because the entire concept just fit. Two, because Andar was there and had already begun to be set up as the next Geomancer. It would have been an interesting dynamic, with Andar as Geomancer and Turok out hunting down Biosaurs but, I still like the idea that Aram was always meant to be the Geomancer, as I do believe there is a line in one of the early issues-possibly EW # 1-where Aram says something about the earth. It might have just been a great retcon from latter VALIANT, but it was one of the coolest ideas in the entire line, I thought. As for Geoff dying, I wonder at which point he would have perished? Speculation is fun, but I think the way things went off right after Unity was great, as is.

Geoff would have probably died when Mothergod shot him in Eternal Warrior #2

[BloodOfHeroes]

My understanding was that Rai #0 was Shooter plotted and the art was drawn from Shooter's plot. Layton did indeed script the pages, but that was after the fact, as is commonplace in comics.

Can anyone provide specific details (NOT fanboy preferences, MOTA, but an interview, solicitation, etc.) that confirm or contradict this?

BoH

[ManofTheAtom]

My understanding was that Rai #0 was Shooter plotted and the art was drawn from Shooter's plot. Layton did indeed script the pages, but that was after the fact, as is commonplace in comics.

Can anyone provide specific details (NOT fanboy preferences, MOTA, but an interview, solicitation, etc.) that confirm or contradict this?

BoH

I'm not contradicting that, that's accepted fact.

What I'm saying is that, given the solicits in the PDF, plans changed and that it's possible that when the solicits were submitted to Previews the plan was to indeed turn Andar into Geomancer, and that it wasn't until after they went out that the plan changed.

Shooter could have been the one that changed the plan, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was changed because he left.

[xodacia81]

That is the thing about VALIANT-and other companies, too-there is so much corporate crud and so many people who don't want to talk about things for either legal or petty personal reasons, that I honestly don't think we will ever get any clear answers to most of these questions.