CGC out of hand

[greg]

if you were going to buy a used $20,000 car, and you had it checked out by an expert and the expert said "I've never seen a car of this type in this good a condition"...would you pay $100,000 for it?

Is it a cop-out if I can EASILY see both sides of this argument?

SIDE ONE
If you were going to buy a used car, you'd be buying it to use.
You'd be buying it because you needed it.
You want to pay $20,000, and you SHOULD pay $20,000.
Don't pay $100,000. Go to a used car lot. Buy a car for $20,000.

SIDE TWO
If you were a car collector, who had no intention of driving the car...
If you intended to sell the car again some day, in the exact same condition...
If you want to own the best possible example of a car that is
no longer being manufactured... you've got to identify it, and go get it.
You must pay the going rate for the car in top condition...
or else you won't own that car. Bottom line... Period.
You can hope that another comes along some day at a lower price,
but a collection of hopes is a collection of nothing at all.
There is no $20,000... that's a figment of imagination. Just a number on a page.
$20,000 buys a different car... lower condition... not this car.
Go to a Barrett-Jackson auction. Find that car. That is the real market.
If the car is $100,000... you can take it, or leave it.
If you want it, you pay $100,000... and don't look back.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Still not getting it...

WHERE ARE THE BOOKS FOR SALE????

Please, show me..a website, a seller on Ebay, a dealer...WHERE

9.8 Silver Age/ Gloden Age...even Bronze age...RAW NM/M copies....WHERE FOR GOD'S SAKE?

All ANY of you are doing is writing constant, redundant, retorts to my SAME question..post after post

"people aren't buried with these books, they come up for sale"...really?...WHEN, WHERE, WHO,????? I will buy them ALL...every last copy!

Man, you CGC haters are a real pegorative bunch, i'm flummoxed by the lack of answers to my question...says much to me, like you all know not what you're writing about...at all

<rolls eyes several hundred times>

Peter. Calm down. You're starting to sound like a petulant child.

Pay very close attention: I speak only for myself. *I* love CGC. *I* think that CGC is the VERY BEST thing to happen in YEARS. I waited for CGC for a VERY, VERY long time, and have taken a VERY personal and immense pleasure in the amount of fools who sold me and others overgraded books for years, only to get screwed when they sent books in themselves.

Is that enough qualification for you?

Now....pay MORE close attention:

1. Raw 9.8 books exist. The LAWS OF PROBABILITY and basic common sense prove this.

2. WHERE are they for sale? RANDOM places. Here and there, from someone who just didn't know, or didn't care, to have them CGC'd. Maybe ONE at a convention. Maybe ONE at a shop. MAYBE ONE sitting in someone's house for a very long time. What you're obstinately missing is that NO ONE KNOWS where or when they are for sale, but EVENTUALLY, it happens. The main point is: NO ONE KNOWS when and where they are for sale UNTIL THEY ARE FOUND..but that DOES NOT therefore mean THEY DON'T EXIST. DUH.

Is THAT a clear enough answer for you?

3. No, you're NOT going to find a goldmine of raw 9.8 books FOR SALE at any one time, unless you're the luckiest person alive.

4. BECAUSE of the RANDOM nature of these remaining books being found and coming up for sale, they will be found as the occur...since YOU are not omnipresent, nor are you omniscient, YOU will not be able to be there at each and every time these books happen to come up for sale raw. Yes, we KNOW you would love to be able to buy them, all of them, but reality dictates that that's NOT going to happen.

One final thing...people who disagree with your arguments aren't then, by default, 'CGC haters'.

Come on, Peter, you're being an ideologue. You're a smart guy, we've been down this road, let's consider some dissenting arguments, huh?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

One more thought:

There probably are no more than 50-100 raw 9.8 Bronze or earlier books existing in inventories for sale in the entire United States.

I pull that number out of my *SQUEE*, but it's certainly larger than zero. Laws of probability, after all.

Do they exist in the inventories of Metropolis? I'd say no. Motor City? No. Mile High? No.

Joe Schmoe comic dealer who's had it bagged and boarded in a box for 10 years, and doesn't really know what he has?

Maybe. Definitely not no.

Again, Peter....finding these RAW books depends on the IGNORANCE of the person selling them, WHOEVER it is. If someone is educated about CGC, then no, they probably won't have a single RAW 9.8 for sale.

But there are 3000+ comic specialty stores in the US. The odds are very good there are a few 9.8's hiding in someone's backstock somewhere.

What you accomplish, Pete, when you announce to everyone that you'll pay so much for these books is you educate them. You let them know there's a lot of money to be made in these high grade books, so they then get them slabbed THEMSELVES, because they're not stupid.

What you need to do is spend the time looking...you know what a raw 9.8 looks like, I assume, so why not do the legwork yourself?

Well, mainly because you don't want to. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[400yrs]

'nuff said

[Peter Parker]

Zeph,

You and I are not disagreeing about anything...actually I agree with just about everything you just wrote in your last two posts.

MY issue (well, it became an issue) is that the CGC nay-sayers (never thought you to be one from the start) will constantly lament that "buying HG CGC books is a waste of $$$ given you can find the books raw"

All I was trying to point out was the fallible content of that statement, no, you can not...not with ANY collecting consistency that is, which you just pointed out as well. Done, that was my purpose...collectors that are buying HG CGC books, at X amount over guide (doesn't matter what is paid) are doing so BECAUSE you cannot locate these books "raw" with daily, weekly, or even yearly constants. Add to that fact, the chances that the books are ACTUALLY NM+ NM/M books to begin with, is extremely low, given most sellers can't grade. Even if one did, the idea you will not pay a PREMIUM over "guide" for them is absurd.

Of course Nm+ & Nm/M books are out there, as I said, I own some, i'm sure you do, and others...but they are not for sale in 90% of the cases, and to disagree with my statement doesn't bother me, ignoring the facts does

To anyone who honestly believes you will find this level of "raw" Silverage, Bronze age or Golden age in enough numbers to offset the high$$$ paid for CGC graded copies..is well, quite frankly...ignorant

and that is all I have to say about this

[X-O HoboJoe]

praying to God in your underroos

and on that note . . .

[oldjello]

Get a load of this.

If anyone is interested, I have the 3 same issues non graded and Ill sell them for 10,000!!! Half that price! bid away true believers!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 74828&rd=1

What I don't understand is why you would put an auction starting at 20,000? The listing fee has to be through the roof to start an auction at that price. Why not start it low so Ebay charges you the good ole 30 cent fee, and you get a free picture with it too. BONUS.... if you're any good at photoshop or spend some extra $5 a month for webhosting, you could utilize your pictures better.

Let me just find the ATM machine....

[greg]

What I don't understand is why you would put an auction starting at 20,000? The listing fee has to be through the roof to start an auction at that price.

Unfortunately, no. It's $4.80 for any auction that starts above $500.
So, you can start an auction at $20,000,000, and it's still $4.80.