Origin of Harada - discussion

[Dr. Solar]

There's the name.

*SQUEE* man, making me read?

But... but... it's a message board, you have to read regardless!!

Now you just don't make sense.

[Chiclo]

That last panel posted really does suggest an anti-matter reactor.

Did they ever call it Nuclear, or was that something I am remembering wrong? If it is anti-matter, it's not nuclear.

It was an Advanced Fusion Energy Research Center.

Energy could refer to anything from nuclear, to cold fusion, to anti-matter, right?

In theory, anti-matter can be fused. But we run back into the whole "where will we get the anti-matter" and "how will we transport it" thing. Hydrogen is a lot easier to get, even Helium 3, than anti-matter and a lot safer to transport.

Fusion is just smashing little nuclei into big nuclei. Could be matter or anti-matter, but anti-matter is a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too expensive proposition to even consider commercially.

Y'all have fun, I am going to go watch Earl.

[ManofTheAtom]

We are talking about two different things. I am not talking about whether an anti-matter reactor could exist in the real world. I am talking about whether ANY reactor could exist that did to Phil what his did to him. And I say no. You can call his reactor an anti-matter reactor, you can call it a positronic reactor, you could call it a Mickey Mouse reactor - but it is still a leap of imagination to say that whatever kind of reactor it was could grant him powers.

Unless the reactor itself isn't what granted him the powers, it's just what turned him into energy.

What gives him his powers is that he's concious energy, not HOW he became that.

Again, it seems to me that you are combining two thing. When you say "Phil's reactor" do you mean simply something like an anti-matter reactor? Or do you mean some sort of magical wish machine that could turn someone into Solar? Because I would certainly say the former could exist at some point, while the latter can't/won't. Real world science may support the notion of a anti-matter reactor (or whatever it was) but it doesn't support the notion of a "wish machine that can turn people into super powered energy beings". I am drawing a distinction between the two, and am saying that they (Valiant) were just calling it a "reactor" for simplicity sake, to try and stick with somewhat realistic science.

I'm starting to think that the term wish machine is applied to the reactor simply because it helped Phil achieve his dream, not because it did anything other than turn him into energy, so in that sense any kind of reactor that could have done that would do.

[ManofTheAtom]

Not just conscious energy, but conscious energy that somehow had the power the manipulate and control all other forms of energy. Conscious energy that could control itself as well (instead of just disappating)

Although in fairness, no one really knows what happens when you get transformed into conscious energy. Maybe everyone who is can manipulate all forms of energy and matter, regardless if they had a Edgewater facility or not.

Chris

Could be.

[ManofTheAtom]

There's the name.

*SQUEE* man, making me read?

But... but... it's a message board, you have to read regardless!!

Now you just don't make sense.

heh

[ManofTheAtom]

That last panel posted really does suggest an anti-matter reactor.

Did they ever call it Nuclear, or was that something I am remembering wrong? If it is anti-matter, it's not nuclear.

It was an Advanced Fusion Energy Research Center.

Energy could refer to anything from nuclear, to cold fusion, to anti-matter, right?

In theory, anti-matter can be fused. But we run back into the whole "where will we get the anti-matter" and "how will we transport it" thing. Hydrogen is a lot easier to get, even Helium 3, than anti-matter and a lot safer to transport.

Fusion is just smashing little nuclei into big nuclei. Could be matter or anti-matter, but anti-matter is a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too expensive proposition to even consider commercially.

Y'all have fun, I am going to go watch Earl.

You know, the reactor exploded for a reason.

Maybe Phil just wasn't as smart as he thought he was.

[ManofTheAtom]

the leap from science outside my window to Valiant comics here is the conscious energy.

[Dr. Solar]

I have a feeling that words like "Advanced Fusion Research Center" and "anti-proton pump" and "magnetic bottle" were used to make it sound more scientific, not because the writer had a good scientific idea of what type of generator he was trying to write about.

In other words, I don't think the writer had any idea what kind of reactor it was, so how/why should we?

[cjv]

I'm starting to think that the term wish machine is applied to the reactor simply because it helped Phil achieve his dream, not because it did anything other than turn him into energy, so in that sense any kind of reactor that could have done that would do.

I have always maintained that the term "wish machine" was more figurative than literal.

So, if somehow his turning into conscious energy was the crux, then we also have to remember that the same thing happened to Erica. This would lead me to believe that it could happen to ANYONE.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

I'm starting to think that the term wish machine is applied to the reactor simply because it helped Phil achieve his dream, not because it did anything other than turn him into energy, so in that sense any kind of reactor that could have done that would do.

I have always maintained that the term "wish machine" was more figurative than literal.

So, if somehow his turning into conscious energy was the crux, then we also have to remember that the same thing happened to Erica. This would lead me to believe that it could happen to ANYONE.

Chris

I once suggested that Phil changed Erica as part of his wish to become a hero.

Every hero needs a villain, and the best villains are the hero's counterpart.

[ManofTheAtom]

I have a feeling that words like "Advanced Fusion Research Center" and "anti-proton pump" and "magnetic bottle" were used to make it sound more scientific, not because the writer had a good scientific idea of what type of generator he was trying to write about.

In other words, I don't think the writer had any idea what kind of reactor it was, so how/why should we?

Yet the word nuclear doesn't appear anywhere, meaning that they weren't just throwing random words out.

[Chiclo]

I have a feeling that words like "Advanced Fusion Research Center" and "anti-proton pump" and "magnetic bottle" were used to make it sound more scientific, not because the writer had a good scientific idea of what type of generator he was trying to write about.

In other words, I don't think the writer had any idea what kind of reactor it was, so how/why should we?

Yet the word nuclear doesn't appear anywhere, meaning that they weren't just throwing random words out.

The word fusion does appear, and that is a nuclear process.

[ManofTheAtom]

I have a feeling that words like "Advanced Fusion Research Center" and "anti-proton pump" and "magnetic bottle" were used to make it sound more scientific, not because the writer had a good scientific idea of what type of generator he was trying to write about.

In other words, I don't think the writer had any idea what kind of reactor it was, so how/why should we?

Yet the word nuclear doesn't appear anywhere, meaning that they weren't just throwing random words out.

The word fusion does appear, and that is a nuclear process.

Ok.

I just noticed that Dr Solar left out the word Energy when he quoted the name of the facility.

It makes sense that they'd research fusion, just like it makes sense for them to research anti-matter and other sources of energy.

[slym2none]

You would for anti-matter, but there is no advantage as far as energy yield in using anti-matter and anti-matter is very expensive to make and difficult to store, move or even keep from exploding.

I thought the energy expenditure to loss ratio was phenomenal for antimatter. Coal burning is highly inefficient, and even nuclear technology has what, a 30% return on usable energy versus what gets wasted during the process. I have heard that if (and that's a big if) we could harness antimatter, it would be at almost 100% efficiency. Now, the expenses and danger are another matter (pun intended) altogether.

Sorry, pardon my bit....



-slym

Not that much off topic. We are trying to figure out what Phil's reactor did.

OK - then from what we see in the picture of the Edgewater facility blowing up, that would be ONE DAMN SMALL bit of antimatter to "blow up." A drop the size of a BB, if exposed to our atmosphere (or any matter), would annihilate a good many square acres, not just blow the reactor's top off. And I mean INSTANT ANNIHILATION - no walking through the reactor like Phil did.

In other words, it's clear it was NOT antimatter that caused Solar's existence.





-slym

[ManofTheAtom]

You would for anti-matter, but there is no advantage as far as energy yield in using anti-matter and anti-matter is very expensive to make and difficult to store, move or even keep from exploding.

I thought the energy expenditure to loss ratio was phenomenal for antimatter. Coal burning is highly inefficient, and even nuclear technology has what, a 30% return on usable energy versus what gets wasted during the process. I have heard that if (and that's a big if) we could harness antimatter, it would be at almost 100% efficiency. Now, the expenses and danger are another matter (pun intended) altogether.

Sorry, pardon my bit....



-slym

Not that much off topic. We are trying to figure out what Phil's reactor did.

OK - then from what we see in the picture of the Edgewater facility blowing up, that would be ONE DAMN SMALL bit of antimatter to "blow up." A drop the size of a BB, if exposed to our atmosphere (or any matter), would annihilate a good many square acres, not just blow the reactor's top off. And I mean INSTANT ANNIHILATION - no walking through the reactor like Phil did.

In other words, it's clear it was NOT antimatter that caused Solar's existence.





-slym

Or it means that the anti-matter hadn't exploded yet, it was just on the verge of an explosion.

SOMETHING related to the reactor exploded, but it wasn't necessarily the anti-matter. It was something that could potentially cause a disaster if it reached the anti-matter containment grid or whatever, but it hadn't reached that far yet, which is why Phil thought that banging on the accelerators with a wrench would fix the problem.

[Dr. Solar]

I can't believe I was thinking about this on the way home from work.

Regarding the "anti-proton pump", this could be a device that pumps anti-protons, or it could be a device that uses anti-protons somehow to pump some other material.

In the engineering field I work in, we use pumps a lot. Whenever we refer to a pump, we generally refer to it by the method of moving the material. For instance, we talk about centrifugal pumps, positive displacement pumps, vertical turbine pumps, diaphragm pumps, etc. All of these can be "water pumps", but generally we don't call it a water pump except in the context of a completed plant, and that is the dedicated service it performs. Even in that case, half the time we refer to a pump by the type of pump it is, rather than by the material that it moves.

As long as we are gonna keep riding this dork train to geeksville, population: us, we cannot assume from this description that anti-matter is involved with any reaction that is going on, just that anti-protons are involved with the process somehow.

[ManofTheAtom]

just that anti-protons are involved with the process somehow.

Very well.

Other than anti-matter reactors, what other kind of reactors would requiere anti-protons in their process, as well as a magnetic bottle?

[cjv]

just that anti-protons are involved with the process somehow.

Very well.

Other than anti-matter reactors, what other kind of reactors would requiere anti-protons in their process, as well as a magnetic bottle?

Wish machines.

Chris

[cjv]

I once suggested that Phil changed Erica as part of his wish to become a hero.

Every hero needs a villain, and the best villains are the hero's counterpart.

Yes, I remember that.

Although if he did do that, it isn't too far of a stretch to have the idea that somehow "Phil energy" is responsible for ALL people's powers in VH-1. IE, Phil's energy has somehow imbued all atoms in the VH-1 universe, and that is responsible for giving people their powers/abilities.

I actually don't know if I buy that theory, but it's a possibility.

This also begs the question, how "conscious" were the changes that Phil made. I mean, Phil didn't consciously decide to give Erica powers. He didn't consciously decide to create a universe with super powered being. Was it all an accident, luck of the draw? Was it his subconscious? Perhaps the "energy" has a mind of it's own?

Chris

[Dr. Solar]

Where did it say that when the universe came back (VH1) after Phil destroyed the "real" world that he was resonsible for Harbie's, geo's, eternals, etc?

I don't remember where in the comics this notion comes from.

[ManofTheAtom]

I once suggested that Phil changed Erica as part of his wish to become a hero.

Every hero needs a villain, and the best villains are the hero's counterpart.

Yes, I remember that.

Although if he did do that, it isn't too far of a stretch to have the idea that somehow "Phil energy" is responsible for ALL people's powers in VH-1. IE, Phil's energy has somehow imbued all atoms in the VH-1 universe, and that is responsible for giving people their powers/abilities.

I actually don't know if I buy that theory, but it's a possibility.

This also begs the question, how "conscious" were the changes that Phil made. I mean, Phil didn't consciously decide to give Erica powers. He didn't consciously decide to create a universe with super powered being. Was it all an accident, luck of the draw? Was it his subconscious? Perhaps the "energy" has a mind of it's own?

Chris

It was a roll of the dice

[ManofTheAtom]

Where did it say that when the universe came back (VH1) after Phil destroyed the "real" world that he was resonsible for Harbie's, geo's, eternals, etc?

I don't remember where in the comics this notion comes from.

Characters like that don't exist in the real world, they requiere a catalyst to come into existance.

Phil is that catalyst.

[ManofTheAtom]

just that anti-protons are involved with the process somehow.

Very well.

Other than anti-matter reactors, what other kind of reactors would requiere anti-protons in their process, as well as a magnetic bottle?

Wish machines.

Chris

[cjv]

I once suggested that Phil changed Erica as part of his wish to become a hero.

Every hero needs a villain, and the best villains are the hero's counterpart.

Yes, I remember that.

Although if he did do that, it isn't too far of a stretch to have the idea that somehow "Phil energy" is responsible for ALL people's powers in VH-1. IE, Phil's energy has somehow imbued all atoms in the VH-1 universe, and that is responsible for giving people their powers/abilities.

I actually don't know if I buy that theory, but it's a possibility.

This also begs the question, how "conscious" were the changes that Phil made. I mean, Phil didn't consciously decide to give Erica powers. He didn't consciously decide to create a universe with super powered being. Was it all an accident, luck of the draw? Was it his subconscious? Perhaps the "energy" has a mind of it's own?

Chris

It was a roll of the dice

Again with the taking things literally, huh.

Chris

[cjv]

Where did it say that when the universe came back (VH1) after Phil destroyed the "real" world that he was resonsible for Harbie's, geo's, eternals, etc?

I don't remember where in the comics this notion comes from.

It was some early issue of Solar. Paraphrasing, Phil was talking about how super powered being exist, and he speculated that the destruction of the earth in the black hole and it's "recreation" allowed being like him to exist.

Chris