Downloaded the Harada Origin story from the net...

[tarheelmarine]

If I buy something I have the right to make a copy of it for myself as a backup. As long as I am not selling it or giving it away it's legal.

[Rubiks-Q-Bert]

If I buy something I have the right to make a copy of it for myself as a backup. As long as I am not selling it or giving it away it's legal.

That about sums it up. No uploading it to the net either.

[oldjello]

If I buy something I have the right to make a copy of it for myself as a backup. As long as I am not selling it or giving it away it's legal.

Correct.
Now, can I borrow a copy?

I Keed!

[b3studios]

Just to throw my 2 cents in here:

I find the issue with downloading comic files to be similar to those of the music industry and .mp3 files, etc.

Personally, I am at a point where I have almost no interest to buy a physical CD of music anymore. I haven't bought one in years that I can remember, except for maybe some classical stuff for a buck in Target or something. I have no desire to amass a collection of these physical discs os plastic that take up space in my house and will eventually end up in a landfill most likely.

I have over a TB of storage, and prefer to buy electronically. it's better for the environment, as there is less packaging, shipping, etc.
Additionally, most online stores of music let you purchase individual songs, rather than whole albums.

This is what I would like for comic companies to do, and would actually get me to purchase comics once again. I cannot see paying $3 for a comic book now.
If they (new books) were available online for say, $1 each to download, then that would be an attractive price point for me, as it would be more affordable, AND I wouldn't have to deal with a physical book made from a dead tree to deal with.

also, I am not going to pay the price of the HC for just a handful of new pages. If they were available separately, then I would be interested.

I know that the collectors out there like to have their books in their hands etc, but i've never really been that sort of comic fan. I've always been interested in them for the story, not the investment.

Hell, I gave away a complete set of VH1 and VH2 books just because They were taking up too much space and my little cousin was getting into comics.

This post is in no way condoning pirating of copy righted materials.

to sum up:
what I would prefer - a dual delivery system of new comic books. Traditional distribution through LCS.
and an online iTunes style model with both subscription and a la carte purchasing options.

This online method would also benefit the smaller indy and web comic creators.

Until the industry comes around to this model, people will still be downloading the stuff for free.

[cinlach@aol.com]

So neither one of you has a problem that this was put on the net by someone other than VEI?

i do.

with all the legal battles being waged by VEI as the rightful owners and VIP as the trademark squatters i would think that anyone who calls themselves a "fan" would, if interested in the new material would then support the freakin' company who's trying to bring that material back to you.

if all you wanted to do was read it you could've borrowed a copy.

instead you chose to take money out the pocket of the group you claim to be a fan of...thereby depriving them of income they probably need in their fight against VIP.

and don't give me that "my measly $25 bucks doesn't matter" horse *SQUEE*.

it's about the principal of the thing...if you want to support them, buy the book.

if you want to just read it, then borrow a copy.

but stealing it and then saying "i never inteded to buy it" is just crappy.

stealing is wrong...period.

be that CD's, books, comics...whatever.

if ouy don't want to buy a whole cd for one song, then just buy the one stinking song...there's a plethora of internet music stores out there.

it's $1, buy the *SQUEE* song and stop hiding behind "the album sucks" as justification for stealing it.

so in summation, thanks for you honesty in displaying your lack of class.

next time either buy the book, borrow it, or if you absolutely MUST steal it don't come brag about it here.

some of us aren't especially fond of theivery in any form.

[IanAlexavier]

Im into holding a book in my hands and actually reading it and collecting them. People dont collect songs, but they might an album. Collecting is all about the secondary market. I dont like the idea that artist can loose money through piracy, Im glad that doesnt happen to me.

In regards to online comics.. whos stopping people from doing that already. Its an invalid argument to think it would help indy publishers... if that ws the case why arent they doing more of it now. The fact is, it is happening and its not THAT financially successful.

AS it stands right now, creators and publishers have the right to post their creations online if they choose to. If they dont then we should do what is right and legal; buy a paper copy.

[b3studios]

Im into holding a book in my hands and actually reading it and collecting them. People dont collect songs, but they might an album. Collecting is all about the secondary market. I dont like the idea that artist can loose money through piracy, Im glad that doesnt happen to me.

In regards to online comics.. whos stopping people from doing that already. Its an invalid argument to think it would help indy publishers... if that ws the case why arent they doing more of it now. The fact is, it is happening and its not THAT financially successful.

AS it stands right now, creators and publishers have the right to post their creations online if they choose to. If they dont then we should do what is right and legal; buy a paper copy.

I'm not justifying pirating something just because it's not available online.

What I do believe is that if there was a ubiquitous distribution system similar to iTunes for music, but for comic distribution, at a decent price, then people would be more likely to buy comics online. I'm not saying that collectors would quit buying their paper copies and start downloading, I'm saying that casual readers would be more likely to purchase things from the comfort of their home computers.

It is not really an invalid argument to say that it would benefit indy publishers. If there was a central place to purchase online comics, where indy creators could get exposure next to their Marvel and DC counterparts, then people would be more likely to try them out. Especially at a lower than printed book price point. This goes doubly for books that the LCS don't want to risk stocking, or only get in a few issues.

Let's face it (the music industry still has a problem doing so) with the advent of consumers moving to online purchasing for many of their needs, then industries need to change with the market.

The bandwidth costs for mainstream publishers (and especially indy publishers) would have to be less per issue than the equivalent of their paper-printed products. The assertation that is not a financially successful option is base on the disjointed and shoddy distribution that online comic distribution in its current form represents.

With kids now days being hooked on computers, myspace, youtube, etc. it would behoove the industry to at least make a viable excursion into the market of online comic distribution.

Obviously this form of distribution wouldn't be for everyone, but it would be more likely to pull in *new* readers; something that from what I understand the industry desperately needs.

Do you honestly think that if there was some full-service portal for online comic distribution and someone opened the browser and saw that they could legally get a new "origin of harada" story by jim shooter for a buck that it wouldn't increase the actual income for Valiant as a company?

not counting the fact that profit margins would be higher for Valiant per issue (double so if someone like Diamond handled the hosting, like Apple does for iTunes), it would take less than 25 "impulse buys" to equate to the cash brought in by one Harbinger trade. And let's face it, people nowadays are much more likely to make an impulse buy on a new $1 story than a $25 one on a 15 year old story.

Just my thoughts, but again, I am not condoning piracy, just trying to look ahead.
I myself would love it if I could subscribe to any new Valiant publications, and have them show up on my computer by the time I get home from work on the day they are released.
If this was possible at a reasonable price, then I would gladly fork over my money for new Valiant books.

[Russfoot]

When the Valiant heroes assembled in the Lost Land, they left one universe, let's call it VH-1S, and when they left the Lost Land, they might have ended up in a similar but different universe, let's call it VH-1L. If we are to accept the ability to leave universes, certainly there is some capacity to return to the wrong universe. Kind of ties into the "I want DC-lite" thread running right now.

The likelihood of two universes so similar existing? Depends upon whom you ask. Certainly someone who goes more for the Schroedinger scenario would see something to be likely.

I accept the theory that different realities, just like different eras, can exist outside the Lost Land, but I don't accept the idea that the heroes returned to a different VALIANT reality, specially since they were sent back home by Solar (unless he screwed up...).

In some cases the heroes picked up from where they left off before entering the Lost Land (i.e. Magnus vs Talpa, Jack coming out from under the tree and seeing Nettie on the boat, etc), so the two variant realities would need to be really similar.

Real-world excuses can say that everything after Shooter left took place on a "different reality", but in-story reasoning doesn't justify that as there's no reason why that would have happened.

You make it really hard to figure out what happened. You consistently demand that the Valiant U follow rules that are as close to real science and the world outside your window as possible and still allow for sorta cute, flying fat girls but reject any (admittedly far fetched and on the outer realm of currently understood science) possibly scientific explanation of what happened.

I am not challenging you - yet again. Please don't go on a tirade about any random single bit of that paragraph that you don't feel fits with the Valiant universe. I am trying to see the Valiant universe through your eyes.

You have to keep in mind that there's a need to have TWO views on everything.

One is the in-story comic book perspective and the other is the real world perspective.

There's two answers to "what happened"

One is "Solar sent everyone home", which is the in-story comic book perspective.

The other is "Jim Shooter was ousted and replaced as editor by Bob Layton, who did things his way and that resulted in the stories no longer fitting Shooter's intent", which is the real world perspective.

What needs to happen in order for an idea like "pick up after Unity and ignore what Layton did" to work is a third perspective that justifies, in an in-story comic book perspective, the real world perspective of wanting to ignore what Layton did and return to what Shooter did.

Your idea of alternate realities existing outside the Lost Land the same way that alternate eras did (i.e. 1992 and 4001) sounds right, the problem with that, however, is two-fold.

First there's nothing in the story to suggest that Solar may have inadvertingly or conciously sent the heroes to the wrong reality (specially when you consider that he didn't send all of them away, like for example Shadowman, who left of his own accord without Solar's help, or heroes like baby Magnus and Aric, who moved through time and not space - Aric, for instance, wished to be back in 408 with the armor, not in the 408 of an alternate reality or some such-.).

Second, even if there was an in-story comic book perspective way to explain that Solar may have indeed moved them to a different reality, that would only strenghtened the Layton version of VALIANT, not help replace it with Shooter's by picking up after Unity.

In fact the best solution to be to pick up DURING Unity, starting with Unity #1 and Solar sending the heroes home... but that would mean picking up the plots left hanging from before Unity and set up during Unity, like Aric's aforementioned trip to the past and Magnus' fight with Talpa.

You see, picking up after or during Unity, or picking up after the 96 cliffhangers is equally problematic as both carry with them their own set of incomplete stories.

Say that VEI were to pick up after Unity. That leaves them with the question of what to do with Aric after he vanished to 408. Do they retell the story that's already been told, wasting resources and money on something people can buy for a quarter?

Say that VEI were to pick up after X-O Manowar #68. That leaves them with the question of what to do with Aric after he woke up on the Spider-Alien ship and was told that his experiences in the VALIANT Universe were a dream. Do they tell a story that hasn't been told, expending resources and money on something people may be interested in paying for if it means seeing a NEW, never before done, VALIANT story?

That's the kind of decisions VEI has to consider if they're really looking into continuing either from where Shooter left off or from where VALIANT in general left off.

Either way you see it, they'd have to deal with cliffhangers.

The Unity cliffhangers have already been resolved, and people aren't likely to spend 2.50-3 dollars for a replacement story when they can buy the original resolution for a quarter.

The 96 cliffhangers are still lingering, and people are hungry for new VALIANT material, so if handled correctly, those resolutions could attract an audience.

Umm, not to throw fuel on the fire so to speak, but there *is* another, very simple way of dealing with any and all inconsistanties. Valiant Entertainment picks up a new story line based on where Unity 1 left off and we, the collected Valiant fandom as a whole, simply ignore what happened the first time around. And if that means they have to reprint the Unity saga (as well as the Pre-Unity issues of Solar, Magnus, X-O, Rai, and Shadowman) in hardcover form to bring new readers up to date, then that's something we're just going to have to live with.

[muzzsucker]

When the Valiant heroes assembled in the Lost Land, they left one universe, let's call it VH-1S, and when they left the Lost Land, they might have ended up in a similar but different universe, let's call it VH-1L. If we are to accept the ability to leave universes, certainly there is some capacity to return to the wrong universe. Kind of ties into the "I want DC-lite" thread running right now.

The likelihood of two universes so similar existing? Depends upon whom you ask. Certainly someone who goes more for the Schroedinger scenario would see something to be likely.

I accept the theory that different realities, just like different eras, can exist outside the Lost Land, but I don't accept the idea that the heroes returned to a different VALIANT reality, specially since they were sent back home by Solar (unless he screwed up...).

In some cases the heroes picked up from where they left off before entering the Lost Land (i.e. Magnus vs Talpa, Jack coming out from under the tree and seeing Nettie on the boat, etc), so the two variant realities would need to be really similar.

Real-world excuses can say that everything after Shooter left took place on a "different reality", but in-story reasoning doesn't justify that as there's no reason why that would have happened.

What if Solar sent them to an alternate reality because he realized the universe came so close to destruction this time and that with all these super beings it was inevitable to happen again. maybe the next time he couldn't prevent it. in a way he could have been persuaded by erica pierces actions in someway. would be an interesting justification.

[*SQUEE*]

I have downloaded comics in the past of books that I know i would never buy. Reading some comics on the web has made me pick up books that I never even gave a single thought about. So some good things can come of it. I would never download a Valiant book tho as it is something I want to support.

[seymoregutz]

when the computer was put out there for the first time, i don't think they knew of the ramaforcations that would occur in the future. this opened the door for things that no laws were ever created for. music companies lose out, book publishers lose out....cripes, we are losing the news papers due to this new information hyway. now, anyone can put something on the net for all to see......and download. once it hits the net, it's here for good....noone can take it back. i've owned hundreds of albums, but does that make it right to download.....it's like opening a new store and then shoplift the *squee* out of it.

[Chiclo]

i've owned hundreds of albums, but does that make it right to download.....

If you own an album in any format - CD, vinyl, 8 track, casette, reel to reel - you can legally download a digital "archive" copy.

[yardstick]

Read this commentary about "free downloads" by Eric Flint, a well known, successful author:

http://www.baen.com/library/

[slym2none]

I have a few "books on tape" in MP3 format (and one set of CDs) that I have never listened to. I probably just like reading stuff myself, instead of having it read to me.



-slym