CGC vs PGA vs 3PG

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:07 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Allow me to perhaps be a bridge builder (who, me?), and maybe clarify (or mudify, who knows?) what everyone is saying.

Mr. Woo is NOT saying that ALL people who deal with/in CGC books are lazy and/or uninititiated, simply that CGC ALLOWS those people who ARE lazy and/or uninitiated the chance to purchase something that they can be pretty darn sure is actually going to be high grade.

The lazy and/or unititiated being merely PART (and a small one, at that) of the people who deal with/in CGC books (including myself.)

Fair enough?

Crap! someones taken over Zephs ID on the boards. Where is Greg when you need him.

Peter Parker · Post by **Peter Parker** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:09 pm

Yes,... to both your latest posts Zeph

Understood, AND agreed!

mrwoogieman · Post by **mrwoogieman** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:44 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Allow me to perhaps be a bridge builder (who, me?), and maybe clarify (or mudify, who knows?) what everyone is saying.

Mr. Woo is NOT saying that ALL people who deal with/in CGC books are lazy and/or uninititiated, simply that CGC ALLOWS those people who ARE lazy and/or uninitiated the chance to purchase something that they can be pretty darn sure is actually going to be high grade.

The lazy and/or unititiated being merely PART (and a small one, at that) of the people who deal with/in CGC books (including myself.)

Fair enough?

Thanks, Zeph!!

It's like I have a Board Herald!

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:28 pm

I but live....<bows deeply>....to serve.

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:39 pm

OT: Sometimes I get a voice in my head that says these two fellows are the same person, but it usually goes away pretty quickly...

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
Peter Parker wrote: Also, this idea that one buys the GRADE/SLAB and not the book is outright silly. You have zero idea how many CGC 9. whatever's i've DECLINED based on specified problems I personally had with the book/grade.

No, in fact, there are people who 'just buy the grade'. 99% of all sellers currently 'just sell the grade', as you can see with the absolute DEARTH of 'since this was CGC graded, no returns allowed!'..the implication, of course, being that once CGC has slabbed it, it's THAT grade, forever and always, so there, regardless of whether 1. CGC blew it on the grade, or 2. the book was damaged POST-slabbing.

You have to concede, PP, that books are not only occasionally inaccurately graded...but that, in fact, some books have been damaged...and thus lowered grade...AFTER slabbing.

You don't do it...I don't do it...but there are lots and lots of buyers who DO buy 'just the grade', and think that 'just because it's slabbed, that protects the book from further damage forever'...if they even GET that far.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:14 pm

ckb wrote:OT: Sometimes I get a voice in my head that says these two fellows are the same person, but it usually goes away pretty quickly...

I wish. I don't have a CGC 9.0 Spidey #1.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:35 pm

Peter Parker wrote:WOW!!!..this post is gonna be ugly :x

Before we get to VK and Woogie...Dawg, thanks bro', nice to be back.

Where to start..lets see...?..To the two I mentioned above, your previous besotted, and incendiary commentary shows a lack of knowledge about the graded community in general. I've been collecting Comic Books for 30 yrs now, and can grade with ANYONE..period! I own over 500 CGC books and ALL are high grade (9.2-10.0)

To even insinuate that "laziness" or "ignorance" are major players in collecting CGC slabbed material is quite frankly..your OWN ignorance and bellicose position. Collectors like myself don't buy CGC books because we don't understand the nuances related to this hobby, or are just "stupid"! I buy them so I can be GUARANTEED to get what i've paid for.

This VK guy states his been involved in this hobby for 30 plus years?...really? because you sound like a neophyte quite frankly Dude, are you kidding us with the "anyone that knows how to grade will buy "raw" books, and find a dealer to help them in that quest" mantra???

You mean like say...Metropolis here in NYC? who delt with say...Nick Cage for a decade selling him hundreds of thousands of dollars with of "accurately" graded books...RAW!? Like that kind of professional relationship?..Hmmmmmmm, yeah, I got ya..like when Cage later sent them all to CGC only to find out over 30% of that "quality dealers" books were RESTORED!

My man, that is frankly an assanine statement of fantasy Newsflash Mr. Experienced...NO DEALER WORTH HIS WEIGHT SELLS RAW HG BOOKS ANYMORE, THEY HAVE THEM ALL GRADED BY CGC! and that's the proper thing to do. I have a few dealers in NYC that get me "raw" material from time to time, but for the most part they honestly tell me "B, i'll give you a good deal on the book, but i'd like to get it graded first".

Hey, no biggie, I understand, and at least i'll be satisfied to know its unrestored and graded by a 3rd party. Also for the "comics are meant to be read crowd" ...ALERT ...I've read all these books already, i'm now interested in collecting, archival, HG books, SLABBED for a MYRIAD of logical reasons you both seem to have difficulty equating

I guess..Tom Brulato, Doug Schmell, and other SERIOUS HG collectors are morons as well huh? yeah, surely so. I'm always amazed by the CGC haters consistancy of superfluous and vociferious negativity regarding this subject. They also ALWAYS tend to point out the $$$ involved in buying CGC books...why? do you have personal fiscal restraints that prevent you from buying them? That's nothing to be ashamed of, but it certainly makes people like ME read your comments to that conclusion.

There are tens of MILLIONS of dollars tied up in CGC books, and thats in personal COLLECTIONS, not the CGC books for sale on any given day. At least talk from a vantage point of learned knowledge about the subject matter, because to these trained eyes you both read like dissputatious, feckless kids I'll be happy to FURTHER assist in your edification

Mr. Parker-
First off, I never said that persons who buy CGC books are ignorant. Please re-read my post, & you'll see I never used that term or insinuated such.

My whole point in regards to the "lazy & inexperienced" remark was in terms of grading slowing & sadly becoming a lost art. I understand what motivates the CGC community. I see it as a good thing & a curse at the same time.

I totally understand that you want a guarantee of what you're getting. I guess I'm speaking for myself when I say that I buy raw collections all the time, & up until now, my resale prices depended more on what I initially had in on them, then as to what I could maximize out of each book. I found it easier for me to turn over books that way, giving me the quick payback for reinvestment.

If I sound like a novice, it's because I've been in denial about what I need to do about my various collections & CGC. I should stop selling my stock raw, & get what is worth grading professonally CGC graded.

My problem isn't that I can't afford to buy the high grade CGC's. It's that I can't afford to send my already high grade raw books, which I've accumulated over the past 36 years, in to be graded. I have the books. I don't have the slabs. As for Modern Age books, I cherry picked nearly every one of my original Valiants, & honestly know of only one issue (Vintage Magnus #3) that is less than 9.4 NM or better. Check out my inventory under Vault-Keeper. It's the #3 collection on the V1 list (next time Greg updates). I have over 20,000 raw comics of all kinds, dating back to Platinum Age stuff. I need to go through, pick out a good batch of rare & high grade stuff, and send them in.

I was a dealer worth my weight selling raw books at a fair price. You know, the kind of dealer you didn't think existed anymore. Well now I'm going to try to afford to send in a bunch to CGC, & see just what I've got. Thanks for finally inspiring me to do the right thing with my best copies.

And, for the record, I also never said CGC collectors were morons either, as you insinuated. Please refrain from putting words into my mouth which weren't said. And there was also no need to sound so aggressive. We are, after all, civilized here, Peter. And I know your Aunt May raised you better than that... ---Steve

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:37 pm

x-omatic wrote:
greg wrote:Simply put...
I've yet to hear from a CGG/PGA supporter who doesn't live in Oregon.

At this point, it's like trying to learn about a particular sports team by
only listening to the locals. Sure... they believe they have a great team,
but what does the rest of the country think?
I think they also have an office here in AZ.

Really? It's not on their website...
What happens in Arizona?

By the way, I know that PGA/CGG has a reputation for undergrading...
(whether earned, or just advertised)... but the latest batch of books I've
seen on Ebay have all been PGA 9.8 and 9.9.
And, always from some seller in Oregon.

If 9.9 is undergraded...

Peter Parker · Post by **Peter Parker** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:52 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
ckb wrote:OT: Sometimes I get a voice in my head that says these two fellows are the same person, but it usually goes away pretty quickly...

I wish. I don't have a CGC 9.0 Spidey #1.

Actually Zeph..its a CGC 9.0 Amazing Fantasy# 15

soundoftheuniverse · Post by **soundoftheuniverse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:13 am

It's funny having Peter back and posting because for a second I thought Knightt had lost his mind and ended his campaign.

Knightt Repeat after me. Graded books are good....

soundoftheuniverse · Post by **soundoftheuniverse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:15 am

It's funny having Peter back and posting because for a second I thought Knightt had lost his mind and ended his campaign.

Knightt Repeat after me. Graded Valiants are good....

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:44 am

Peter Parker wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
ckb wrote:OT: Sometimes I get a voice in my head that says these two fellows are the same person, but it usually goes away pretty quickly...

I wish. I don't have a CGC 9.0 Spidey #1.
Actually Zeph..its a CGC 9.0 Amazing Fantasy# 15

Yeah, couldn't remember, knew it was one or the other.