newsarama article about the ashcan!

Virgule · Post by **Virgule** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:54 am

so as far as far i can understand.

VIP bought trademarks that acclaim let down and then were not in the package bought hence the pb.

and then VEI wants to reisntate the old VH1 wereas VIP wants to make new concepts with the old valiants name.

meaning valiants fans stick mostly behind VEI, as VIP seems more interested into making money out of household names.

PB is that with no agreement soon, mostly most of the publications will be on stand by right ?

PLus some Fans too violent in their reaction threaten on the board the lawyer ?

and why is there 1234 threads on the subject ?

AM I right or did I miss SMTG ?

*SQUEE* · Post by ***SQUEE*** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:27 am

We (the Valiant fans) are like kids in a divorce.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:57 am

*SQUEE* wrote:We (the Valiant fans) are like kids in a divorce.

More like kidnapping.

VIP - "Come with us."
VF.com - "I don't know you."

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:58 am

magnusr wrote:
MProyas wrote:it is not a stretch that he is insinuating that Dino is inciting violence against him.
Exactly. To me it was unbelievable that he could write such a thing and get away with it. It's borderline slander. But he is getting away with it, so obviously it was a skilled play, regardless of how I feel. I can not understand this game, so I just have to accept the rules as they are and adjust to that, no matter how repulsive it is. It's wrong that the boards would have to consider the tactic games of a lawer, but as long as we all together do not hire a better lawyer, that's the way it will have to be.

Anyway, having read more of this hread, the much simlper answer has already been presented - let's make posts that are good for Valiant.

/Magnus

Very well said Magnus!

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:24 am

magnusr wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:AMEND BROTHER!
Does he need to make amends?

/Magnus

PS, Zero has a very god point. It's fascinating how important we are. It's like Pepsi and Coke. Coke makes commercials saying how good Coke is. Pepsi makes commercials saying how bad Coke is. Both show that Coke is the norm. That Lovitz brings up these boards shows that we and VEI are the norm.

I know you are right in your analogy, but I am still trying to get my head around it...

...I think I understand it, and so I have got it. A very clever analogy, sir!

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:12 am

magnusr wrote:
MProyas wrote:it is not a stretch that he is insinuating that Dino is inciting violence against him.
Exactly. To me it was unbelievable that he could write such a thing and get away with it. It's borderline slander. But he is getting away with it, so obviously it was a skilled play, regardless of how I feel. I can not understand this game, so I just have to accept the rules as they are and adjust to that, no matter how repulsive it is. It's wrong that the boards would have to consider the tactic games of a lawer, but as long as we all together do not hire a better lawyer, that's the way it will have to be.

Anyway, having read more of this hread, the much simlper answer has already been presented - let's make posts that are good for Valiant.

/Magnus

Excellent points gentlemen. In fact, I hope Valiant (VEI) is paying attention to these comments and taking notes. Could be vip's hitman has made a serious legal error with his statements.

kyanther · Post by **kyanther** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:32 am

Just to throw my 2 cents in there.....my posts on newsarama are gone.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:16 am

slym2none wrote:
depluto wrote:I'm not sure I'm getting this ... Greg, are you asking us not to behave like jackasses?
That's it - I'm out.

-slym ( )

I'm pretty sure I can't manage that . . .

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:18 am

ThrillKillWill wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
mobstirr wrote:I was kinda hoping for an X-O Hobo show...that guy is funny as h3ll!!!

I'm on cable. . .
I hope it isn't on Skinemax.

If it is I am cancelling my premium service tomorrow.

You know you want it.

Watching a porno with me in it is like getting sympathy for having a rare stomach disease -- Nice for a second or two, then reality sets back in and you throw up.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:19 am

*SQUEE* wrote:We (the Valiant fans) are like kids in a divorce.

Feels like it.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:20 am

Zero wrote:
*SQUEE* wrote:We (the Valiant fans) are like kids in a divorce.
More like kidnapping.

VIP - "Come with us."
VF.com - "I don't know you."

Ironically, I've told my kids to kick the guy in the nuts if this happens . . .

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:25 am

Second_Death wrote:
magnusr wrote:
MProyas wrote:it is not a stretch that he is insinuating that Dino is inciting violence against him.
Exactly. To me it was unbelievable that he could write such a thing and get away with it. It's borderline slander. But he is getting away with it, so obviously it was a skilled play, regardless of how I feel. I can not understand this game, so I just have to accept the rules as they are and adjust to that, no matter how repulsive it is. It's wrong that the boards would have to consider the tactic games of a lawer, but as long as we all together do not hire a better lawyer, that's the way it will have to be.

Anyway, having read more of this hread, the much simlper answer has already been presented - let's make posts that are good for Valiant.

/Magnus

Excellent points gentlemen. In fact, I hope Valiant (VEI) is paying attention to these comments and taking notes. Could be vip's hitman has made a serious legal error with his statements.

I think he's a damn good lawyer . . . he just has so little to work with here that he's grasping at straw in an attempt to bring as much $ out of VEI in the final settlement as he can for his client (and himself, obviously). It's been said in a far better manner elsewhere on this board: VIP has no true interest in publishing these characters; this is only positioning for the final check.

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:37 pm

greg wrote:
I WANT VALIANT... this is VALIANTFANS.COM

Same here. I agree with greg. This just makes us look bad and instead of arguing like this, we should all be talking about "real" Valiant things instead.

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Elveen wrote:I hate threads like this. Period.

agreed

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:58 pm

kyanther wrote:Just to throw my 2 cents in there.....my posts on newsarama are gone.

What did they say?

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:04 pm

Zero wrote:
*SQUEE* wrote:We (the Valiant fans) are like kids in a divorce.
More like kidnapping.

VIP - "Come with us."
VF.com - "I don't know you."

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:19 pm

greg wrote:
schi0249 wrote:Just playing devils advocate here. VIP did apply for the trademarks on 3/31. The auction was in April. So in reality, they did apply for them shortly before the auction.
To extend your devil's advocate scenario...
VIP did apply for the trademarks on 3/31, though the auction was announced months in advance.
Why would VIP wait until the onset of the auction, when it is known that the USPTO takes several days to register the applications?

Why the secret, last second, covert actions?

"Good faith" and "bad faith" are ethical terms... and legal terms.

The big questoin then becomes: "What was the date the auction was publicly announced? Find that date, and compare the timeline...

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:36 pm

My two cents:

Well it's nice to see the two parties involved saying something. Just wish Lovitz hadn't felt the urge to sling mud back at Dino and the board.

There were never any threats on this board against Lovitz and everyone knows it. No one ever meant any of those things literally. People say things like that all the time in normal conversation. I can't get through a day the office were the editor isn't talking abour kicking someone's *SQUEE* but no one's ever felt threatened by it. That's just the way people talk. I seriously have a hard time believing he really thought someone was going to get pitchforks and torches...I mean, c'mon, let's be real.

Now, lots of insulting or bad things against Lovitz and his professional reputation have been stated on here, enough to fill several libel suits if they weren't true and if they actually hurt Lovitz professionally (if you could prove the "truth" of those arguements in court is another conversation all together). Lovitz actually being able to prove damages against anything posted on this board seems highly unlikely.

What he said about Dino is inaccurate. While we were very much incited against VIP (to talk bad about them and spread bad things about them); that was done by leaking information through board members, by Dino (in his Dino persona) using PMs, and through various members acting on their own. It had nothing to do with any of Dino's alternate identities that I'm aware. I know atleast one of them did participate in already ongoing anti-VIP conversations but didn't say anything more inciteful than anyone else (heck he probably said things that were less inciteful than most). Dino used his other ids for the rereading forum (as Xoken) and some other...extracurricular activities but nothing involving the VEI vs. VIP conflict.

And, to be quite honest. the idea that their wouldn't be an anti-VIP backlash without the actions Dino and VEI is absurd. The information was publically out there and was widely reported, of course people were going to react.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:52 pm

I see it, in the posts on Newsarama, but I don't understand the position
that VIP supporters are taking when they say, "If it's legal, that's all that matters!"

We don't know whether it's legal... that's for the courts to decide.

But what we do know is that VIP's plan is to ignore MILLIONS of books
of Valiant content already in print, still being bought and sold daily,
and smear some black ink on a page, and say "There's your Harbinger right there".

MILLIONS of Harbinger books circulating the globe, with content VEI owns,
and VIP's "black-winged angel/demon" is "good enough" for these guys?

Luckily, apart from a brief series of "Instant Pro-VIP" posts at the beginning of the Newsarama topic,
it seems the people who actually took the time to read the article
seems to be getting the picture.

VEI has VALIANT content... they want to label it with Valiant trademarks.
VIP has non-VALIANT ideas... they want to put Valiant trademarks on it.

If you're already a VALIANT fan... it's just not all that complicated to choose sides.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:12 pm

mobstirr wrote:
greg wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:The problem here, right now, is that the mods (like Daniel) are afraid that the donkey balls-sucking lawyer (I kid, I kid) will sue them if I say that I'm going to make him eat *SQUEE*.
I'll tell you what I'm AFRAID of.

I'm afraid that there are VALIANT FANS who just found this board today
and they're being subjected to the idiotic crap that you're typing.

This site is about SUPPORTING VALIANT.

If you can't focus on things that support Valiant, you aren't needed here.

You know where the exit is... it's your choice.
Tom Crusie, Hustler magazine, and donkey balls aside, we should be showing solidarity as a very united grass roots fan base in order to send a clear message to VIP - "we don't want your trash."

For the record:

I will not buy VIP products if they are of the same quality and "demean"or as the so-called "ashcan" which was being sold for ~$40 at the comicon. If VIP can produce a product (VH1-related, or otherwise) which meets or exceeds the quality standards of this board, I will consider purchasing that product.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:22 pm

Brother J wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Brother J wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
schi0249 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel

Not the best source, but I don't have time to pull an actual academic site. You can not make malicious statements with knowledge they are false. People go to great depths to protect their character. Back in the 80's CBS was sued over comments it made about a doctor. Tabloids have been famously sued for making things up. Yes, in America we have "freedom of speech." However, that freedom has limits. Most of my law teachers have used the following example. Try screaming Fire! in a crowded. Yes, you can say that if you want, its your choice. But be prepared to be sued if they find out you did it.
Yet Flint was able to suggest that Jerry Falwell has sex with his mother in the outhouse and won the lawsuit because it was protected by his first amendment right to freedom of speech.
wasn't the Flynt thing protected because it was obviously a parody, if he had reported with a straight face as actual news that Falwell had been diddling his mother, he probably would have lost that case.
Sure, and when I say that Lovitz likes to suck donkey balls I say it as a joke. I'm not really suggesting that he's sucking donkey balls right now.
The only other thing is that I don't think message board posts are first amendment protected. Greg hosts the site (with DJ as moderator) and he doesn't have to allow any posts he doesn't feel are acceptable. It's his playground and he gets the set the rules.

You are correct, but for the wrong reason. When each of us signed up for this board, we agreed to the terms and conditions.Therefore, we have a contract with the owners of this board. The terms of the contract are laid out in the Registration Agreement. First amendment issues (in the United States) may be negated by Contract; if that contract, willingly and informedly entered into by the posters of this board, specifically calls for restrictions on what the posters of this board can say, to wit:

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed).

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:23 pm

yardstick wrote:
mobstirr wrote:
greg wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:The problem here, right now, is that the mods (like Daniel) are afraid that the donkey balls-sucking lawyer (I kid, I kid) will sue them if I say that I'm going to make him eat *SQUEE*.
I'll tell you what I'm AFRAID of.

I'm afraid that there are VALIANT FANS who just found this board today
and they're being subjected to the idiotic crap that you're typing.

This site is about SUPPORTING VALIANT.

If you can't focus on things that support Valiant, you aren't needed here.

You know where the exit is... it's your choice.
Tom Crusie, Hustler magazine, and donkey balls aside, we should be showing solidarity as a very united grass roots fan base in order to send a clear message to VIP - "we don't want your trash."

For the record:

I will not buy VIP products if they are of the same quality and "demean"or as the so-called "ashcan" which was being sold for ~$40 at the comicon. If VIP can produce a product (VH1-related, or otherwise) which meets or exceeds the quality standards of this board, I will consider purchasing that product.

The thing is they never will be able to. All they will ever possibly have are names. VEI has all of the content of the characters.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:29 pm

mobstirr wrote:I was kinda hoping for an X-O Hobo show...that guy is funny as h3ll!!!

They had that back in the 70s but under a different name:

The Gong Show....

Lightning Strike · Post by **Lightning Strike** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:36 pm

greg wrote:
VEI has VALIANT content... they want to label it with Valiant trademarks.
VIP has non-VALIANT ideas... they want to put Valiant trademarks on it.

If you're already a VALIANT fan... it's just not all that complicated to choose sides.

'nuff said

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:09 pm

greg wrote:I see it, in the posts on Newsarama, but I don't understand the position
that VIP supporters are taking when they say, "If it's legal, that's all that matters!"

Sounds like shill...