newsarama article about the ashcan!

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:55 pm

Elveen wrote:I hate threads like this. Period.

but they love you...it's ironic really.

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:04 pm

cinlach@aol.com wrote:uh, i hate to ask this but...am i honestly expected to make every single thingi talk about or mention on this site from now on valiant related?

because if so i'm not interested.

i'm here to talk about valiant, but i'm also here to enjoy the company of others with interests like mine which lie outside of valiant.

valiant is the gateway to this wonderful community, but it's not the sole reason for existence.

not for me anyway.

i'm not trying to be dramatic, and yes i know this comes hot on the heels of my explosion on petrilak, and well within the uncomfortable moment i openly disagreed with you about zwh's treatment.

and while it might look like i'm intentionally "poking the bear with a stick" i can assure you it's all coincidental.

however i think i need a solid straight up answer to this question...and i think a lot of us might need it as well.

so, the question is...are we to solely restrict ourselves to comments pertaining or in reference to valiant only or will this continue to be a place where fans of valiant can share their interests on a great many topics?

because that doesn't sound like what you're presenting to mota.

What I said earlier was correct... if I wanted to delete 200,000 posts that are non-Valiant, I would.

I don't want to do that. I understand that those posts build this community.
We can't talk Valiant all the time... many of those posts are "Valiant-neutral, and Community-positive".

Anyone reading those posts will see that Valiant fans are talking about neutral subjects,
you can hate some TV show that I love, but it doesn't affect our Valiant fan status.

However, when a post is not neutral, and it does nothing to promote Valiant,
then it is potentially disruptive, damaging, or otherwise unneeded.

Not every post that fits this description will be deleted, because quite frankly,
there are varying degrees of "problem posts", and varying situations.

What I want most is for this to happen...

I want this board to reflect the Valiant community and be "THE VALIANT SHOW".

If you will look at the particulars of the bannings that have occurred on this site,
they have generally been related to cases where I looked at this board,
and I saw "THE SOMEBODY SHOW".

No one comes to this website for anything but "THE VALIANT SHOW".
If they came to see anything else, they're at the wrong site.
If a member decides to make this site about them, they're at the wrong site.

In the case that someone treats this board like their personal microphone,
and demonstrates that their activity is centered around "being heard",
then they have removed "VALIANT" from "THE VALIANT SHOW".

When this happens, I remove the problem.

It may occur post-by-post, it may occur for only certain topics in certain categories,
or it may occur with account removal, but whatever occurs, ValiantFans.com is "THE VALIANT SHOW".

"THE SOMEBODY SHOW" is subject to cancellation... every time.

Which brings me back to the actual topic here.

If you look at the Newsarama article, it is the LOVITZ SHOW.

This is good news for us, because no one who is interested in VALIANT wants to watch the LOVITZ SHOW.

They might be amused for a while, but they'll eventually say... OK, enough of Lovitz, where's VALIANT?

At that point... it becomes "THE VALIANT SHOW"... and this website is the community,
and VEI is the only way to watch VALIANT content.

THE LOVITZ SHOW isn't interesting if you're looking for Valiant.

I want those people to find VALIANTFANS.com, and when they find us,
they aren't confused about our purpose, they don't see a squabbling clique,
they aren't offended by ridiculous remarks about barnyard animals,
and they see that we are what our title says, VALIANT FANS.

I've said "I want" an awful lot in this post, but I am inclined to believe
that what I have said is what "You want", too.

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:11 pm

i'm cool with that, and i know that while i seem to be in the midst of all the drama right now it's not my intent.

i don't get up in the morning and delight in all the ways i can get up in your business.

i just needed clarification on your statements to mota, now that i have that it's back to business as usual.

hopefully that won't include any more scuffles...because i know my credit has to be getting used up pretty quickly.

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:13 pm

what really sucks is that i've never posted at newsarama before and the approval process is keeping me from joining the fray.

i'll forget all my good points by the time i'm allowed to make them.

<pout>

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:17 pm

cinlach@aol.com wrote:i'm cool with that, and i know that while i seem to be in the midst of all the drama right now it's not my intent.

i don't get up in the morning and delight in all the ways i can get up in your business.

i just needed clarification on your statements to mota, now that i have that it's back to business as usual.

hopefully that won't include any more scuffles...because i know my credit has to be getting used up pretty quickly.

You are doing just fine. What I see when I look at your posts does not make
me think that you are interested in starring in "THE CINLACH SHOW".

In contrast, if you look at the earlier situation where DJ requested that MOTA
change his behavior, it was clearly becoming a case of "LOOK AT ME" for MOTA.
It started with "LOOK AT ME TELL AN OFF-COLOR JOKE FROM A MOVIE".

It continued with "LOOK AT ME FIRING BACK AT CENSORSHIP".

It SPILLED OVER into other threads with "LOOK AT ME MAKING A SHOW OVER HERE IN A NEW TOPIC".

It was clearly becoming "THE MANOFTHEATOM SHOW".

This is the exact example that prompted my comments.

I will not watch "THE MANOFTHEATOM SHOW".

Thankfully, it appears that ManOfTheAtom ended the show early.
Thank you MOTA, for taking the advice and understanding what was being requested.

It's not about me, or you, or DJ, or Lovitz, or censorship... it's about "THE VALIANT SHOW".

If it strays too far... for any reason... the appropriate actions will be taken to focus this ship in the right direction.

Sometimes it results in "Man Overboard", and other times, it's "ALL Present And Accounted, Full Steam Ahead!"

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:34 pm

I'm afraid I'm still not clear on the new rules.

I made a post on topic in a thread about our honest opinion about VIP

You're gonna have to explain why just because the post involved a quote from a movie it's not acceptable since the whole thing is going over my head.

If I had used a picture of Little Lulu would that have made it more acceptable?

I did nothing wrong. I posted ON topic on a thread about our opinion about VIP... the moderator didn't get the joke and all of a sudden I'm not promoting VALIANT... me, the idiot who's used the nickname MAN OF THE ATOM for the better part of eight years is NOT promoting VALIANT.

Imagine that...

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:37 pm

first time I ever saw a post sent to TO, and then brought back again...

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:37 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote: If I had used a picture of Little Lulu would that have made it more acceptable?

Heyyyyy......

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:37 pm

Tim Petty wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote: If I had used a picture of Little Lulu would that have made it more acceptable?

Heyyyyy......

heh

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:35 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:I'm afraid I'm still not clear on the new rules.

I made a post on topic in a thread about our honest opinion about VIP

You're gonna have to explain why just because the post involved a quote from a movie it's not acceptable since the whole thing is going over my head.

If I had used a picture of Little Lulu would that have made it more acceptable?

I did nothing wrong. I posted ON topic on a thread about our opinion about VIP... the moderator didn't get the joke and all of a sudden I'm not promoting VALIANT... me, the idiot who's used the nickname MAN OF THE ATOM for the better part of eight years is NOT promoting VALIANT.

Imagine that...

No problem.

Let's look at the situation... today is the day that the Newsarama article appeared.
This is the thread discussing that Newsarama article.

In that Newsarama article, the Valiant fans were spoken of negatively for harsh
things that were said toward Michael Lovitz.

In this topic, you quoted some of the harshest language in cinema history as a joke,
even though you did not reference the movie quote or point out that you were joking.

Let's stop right there... What good have you done so far?
How have you helped the Valiant community?
How have you shown that what Mr. Lovitz said about us is not a fair summary of our behavior?
How have you shown Valiant fans to be better than what Mr. Lovitz portrayed?

DJ said something about it, and you believe that you're being censored,
that Mr. Lovitz has made us cowards, that your rights are being violated,
that the world is burning and that it's time to give up on our community.
(In a nutshell, I'm still not sure what you said that was serious and what you said that was joking.)

Not only that, but you carried your comments over to other topics on this board
that were not related to this one, and had nothing to do with those comments.

Then your comments degraded into mentioning "donkey balls" on numerous occasions.

At that point, what we have here is "THE MANOFTHEATOM SHOW".

I don't like "THE MANOFTHEATOM SHOW". I like "THE VALIANT SHOW".

I like it when ManOfTheAtom is PART of "THE VALIANT SHOW".
I don't like it when ManOfTheAtom tries to become the STAR of the "THE VALIANT SHOW".

You don't get to stand up in a spotlight and yell about your feelings at this website.
You don't get to grab the microphone and sing about injustice and censorship at this website.

...and what started it all... you don't get to make this community look bad.

Which goes back to where this started... Mr. Lovitz says "Valiant fans" act poorly,
and you proceed to act poorly... "as a joke".

Not funny. Not appreciated. Not allowed.

"THE MANOFTHEATOM SHOW" is always subject to cancellation.
"THE VALIANT SHOW" will remain on the schedule and nothing you say will change that.
Some of what you say may cause the suggestion to be enforced.

Regardless, it's not about you, me, DJ, Lovitz, or any other member here.
Whoever makes it "their show" is on the wrong site.

"THE VALIANT SHOW" and the Valiant community. That's all.

mobstirr · Post by **mobstirr** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:35 pm

I was kinda hoping for an X-O Hobo show...that guy is funny as h3ll!!!

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:45 pm

greg wrote:Let's stop right there... What good have you done so far?
How have you helped the Valiant community?
How have you shown that what Mr. Lovitz said about us is not a fair summary of our behavior?
How have you shown Valiant fans to be better than what Mr. Lovitz portrayed?

Sorry, but I'm not going to worry about making sure that every single post I make on the board conforms to those guidelines.

The thread asked a question and I answered it in the best way I felt like doing it, which was with a joke.

Not a joke designed to do good, not a joke designed to help the VALIANT community (all caps, Greg... for shame...), not a joke designed to show that what Lovitz said about us is not a fair summary of our behavior, and not a joke designed to show that VALIANT fans are better than what Lovitz portrayed... it was a joke designed to be FUNNY, and the FIRST person who posted after me GOT IT.

I'd rather everyone got the joke, but if I made at least one person laugh I guess that'll have to do.

DJ said something about it, and you believe that you're being censored, that Mr. Lovitz has made us cowards, that your rights are being violated, that the world is burning and that it's time to give up on our community. (In a nutshell, I'm still not sure what you said that was serious and what you said that was joking.)

Daniel's post made it very clear that he doesn't want posts that might offend Lovitz or VIP.

I made a joke, he labeled it a threat, and took it out... it wasn't a threat, it was a joke that went over his head but he was scared that Lovitz might get offended so he took it out.

Not only that, but you carried your comments over to other topics on this board that were not related to this one, and had nothing to do with those comments.

I was trying to do good by the community by warning people of what is acceptable and isn't based on Daniel's actions on that thread. I made it a JOKE that ezra got which Daniel took out of the thread.

Then your comments degraded into mentioning "donkey balls" on numerous occasions.

Sure. I'm trying to help people like Daniel understand that we can say things like that and Lovitz can't sue us because of it, which means that it's ok to post jokes like the quote from the movie.

...and what started it all... you don't get to make this community look bad.

And quoting from movies does that?

Which goes back to where this started... Mr. Lovitz says "Valiant fans" act poorly, and you proceed to act poorly... "as a joke".

No, what I did was react to a moderator's abuse of power. He didn't get the joke, took it out, and then proceeded to warn me that I better cooperate.

Regardless, it's not about you, me, DJ, Lovitz, or any other member here.
Whoever makes it "their show" is on the wrong site.

I still don't get it.

I posted a joke in the VALIANT show that got taken out because the moderator didn't get it, then the moderator warned me that I better cooperate or else.

You'll have to explain what cooperate means because I'm still not clear on what I can or can't post.

If I make another joke that may offend the lawyer will it get censored again out of fear that he'll sue?

Should all new jokes have a picture of Little Lulu?

Can jokes only involve quotes from movies Daniel Jackson has seen?

Do jokes requiere disclaimers telling Daniel Jackson which movies to rent so he can get them?

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:15 pm

You are tiring.

This "MANOFTHEATOM SHOW" you're trying to promote isn't going too well.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:17 pm

greg wrote:You are tiring.

This "MANOFTHEATOM SHOW" you're trying to promote isn't going too well.

Funny how I'm not interested in a MOTA show.

I'm asking you what the rules are for posting now.

Should posts be limited to what the mods know, or are we free to think for ourselves?

Should post put poor Mike Lovitz's feelings first, or are we free to not like VIP?

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:19 pm

mobstirr wrote:I was kinda hoping for an X-O Hobo show...that guy is funny as h3ll!!!

I'm on cable. . .

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:27 pm

All I know is I want new VALIANT comics.

VIP is trying to hinder that effort, it seems to me. IMO, VIP is not VALIANT.

What can we do to help VEI?

-slym (has never more deliberately tried to steer a thread back on-topic before)

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:27 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
greg wrote:You are tiring.

This "MANOFTHEATOM SHOW" you're trying to promote isn't going too well.
Funny how I'm not interested in a MOTA show.

I'm asking you what the rules are for posting now.

Should posts be limited to what the mods know, or are we free to think for ourselves?

Should post put poor Mike Lovitz's feelings first, or are we free to not like VIP?

Re-read my posts. It's clear.

If this was the first time we'd ever gone back and forth on "acceptible behavior" discussions,
it would be a lot more beneficial to keep typing.

As it stands, it's diminishing returns.

I don't have all day to hold your hand and tell you "bad MOTA" when you post about donkey balls.

I don't have all night to explain how this isn't a public playground where the loudest voice wins.

I don't have time tomorrow to make sure you're benefitting this community... or at least neutral...
rather than the negativity that is this topic and the "poison" you injected
from here into other topics.

You don't move us forward. We fall backwards when we play the "I'm being censored" game.
We lose ground when we debate that you "just don't get it - explain it again - tell offensive jokes - like saying donkey balls".

We gain nothing when you scream about your feelings and being repressed, opressed, and distressed.

It gets us nowhere.

It's really sad, because the man who knows Valiant is the same man who doesn't understand community.

The man who understands the details of the nuances of comic book dialogue
doesn't understand the posts that spell out that it's "us" and not "you".
It's forward and not backward. It's growing as a community,
not offending Valiant fans who get their first impression from obscene language posts.

If I am forced to choose between you and your donkey balls comments, your obscene jokes,
your continual howling about censorship, and your love for the spotlight to promote all things MOTA feels, says, does,
or none of these... it's an easy choice.

Don't make me choose.

mobstirr · Post by **mobstirr** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:34 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
mobstirr wrote:I was kinda hoping for an X-O Hobo show...that guy is funny as h3ll!!!

I'm on cable. . .

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:13 am

slym2none wrote:All I know is I want new VALIANT comics.

VIP is trying to hinder that effort, it seems to me. IMO, VIP is not VALIANT.

What can we do to help VEI?

-slym (has never more deliberately tried to steer a thread back on-topic before)

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:24 am

slym2none wrote:
slym2none wrote:All I know is I want new VALIANT comics.

VIP is trying to hinder that effort, it seems to me. IMO, VIP is not VALIANT.

What can we do to help VEI?

-slym (has never more deliberately tried to steer a thread back on-topic before)

All I want to know is can I have my own show. Its gonna be about cooking. There will be alot of fast food and pizza deliveries involved.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:28 am

I'm not sure I'm getting this ... Greg, are you asking us not to behave like jackasses?

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:48 am

depluto wrote:I'm not sure I'm getting this ... Greg, are you asking us not to behave like jackasses?

That's it - I'm out.

-slym (

)

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:27 am

MProyas wrote:it is not a stretch that he is insinuating that Dino is inciting violence against him.

Exactly. To me it was unbelievable that he could write such a thing and get away with it. It's borderline slander. But he is getting away with it, so obviously it was a skilled play, regardless of how I feel. I can not understand this game, so I just have to accept the rules as they are and adjust to that, no matter how repulsive it is. It's wrong that the boards would have to consider the tactic games of a lawer, but as long as we all together do not hire a better lawyer, that's the way it will have to be.

Anyway, having read more of this hread, the much simlper answer has already been presented - let's make posts that are good for Valiant.

/Magnus

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:38 am

Cyberstrike wrote:AMEND BROTHER!

Does he need to make amends?

/Magnus

PS, Zero has a very god point. It's fascinating how important we are. It's like Pepsi and Coke. Coke makes commercials saying how good Coke is. Pepsi makes commercials saying how bad Coke is. Both show that Coke is the norm. That Lovitz brings up these boards shows that we and VEI are the norm.

TKWill · Post by **TKWill** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:40 am

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
mobstirr wrote:I was kinda hoping for an X-O Hobo show...that guy is funny as h3ll!!!

I'm on cable. . .

I hope it isn't on Skinemax.

If it is I am cancelling my premium service tomorrow.