newsarama article about the ashcan!

[X-O HoboJoe]

not that is any of my business.... but this is in "General Valiant discussion" so I guess I can chime in.

Myabe you should be able to post whatever you want, but now you are purposly goading DJ.

So in context you might be correct (post what you want, who cares about the laywer), but in excution, you are going about it the wrong way. (IMO)

[ManofTheAtom]

not that is any of my business.... but this is in "General Valiant discussion" so I guess I can chime in.

Myabe you should be able to post whatever you want, but now you are purposly goading DJ.

So in context you might be correct (post what you want, who cares about the laywer), but in excution, you are going about it the wrong way. (IMO)

I'm just warning people of the new rules.

We can't post quotes from movies or colorful language because otherwise DJ will change it out of fear of the lawyer.

[Second_Death]

This post on the Newsarama board seems to sum it up:

"Ironically, this may be the first ashcan to come along in decades to actually exist for the original purpose - a quickly produced pamphlet intended not to be sold, but to secure copyright."

Just from reading the article, I seriously doubt that VIP has any intention of publishing comics. It appears to be a legal way for a lawyer to extort money from VEI and take a percentage of their future comics sales. Just my $0.02.

Absolutely.

[Second_Death]

not that is any of my business.... but this is in "General Valiant discussion" so I guess I can chime in.

Myabe you should be able to post whatever you want, but now you are purposly goading DJ.

So in context you might be correct (post what you want, who cares about the laywer), but in excution, you are going about it the wrong way. (IMO)

I'm just warning people of the new rules.

We can't post quotes from movies or colorful language because otherwise DJ will change it out of fear of the lawyer.

Perhaps a disclaimer at the bottom of your post referencing the source of your humor might be appropriate for future posts since we do have lawyers* monitoring our posts.

*Mr Lovitz?.......you stink. By the way, VF and VEI are in no way affiliated with Second_Death. All previous and future comments by Second_Death are the sole property of Second_Death and are not connected to or intended to represent the views of either VF or VEI. I repeat, you stink.

[ManofTheAtom]

not that is any of my business.... but this is in "General Valiant discussion" so I guess I can chime in.

Myabe you should be able to post whatever you want, but now you are purposly goading DJ.

So in context you might be correct (post what you want, who cares about the laywer), but in excution, you are going about it the wrong way. (IMO)

I'm just warning people of the new rules.

We can't post quotes from movies or colorful language because otherwise DJ will change it out of fear of the lawyer.

Perhaps a disclaimer at the bottom of your post referencing the source of your humor might be appropriate for future posts since we do have lawyers* monitoring our posts.

*Mr Lovitz?.......you stink. By the way, VF and VEI are in no way affiliated with Second_Death. All previous and future comments by Second_Death are the sole property of Second_Death and are not connected to or intended to represent the views of either VF or VEI. I repeat, you stink.

That's no way to live, express your opinion, or speak your mind.

My posts need a disclaimer like a comedian needs a sign that reads "I'm telling jokes, stupid!"

[Zero]

Quantum & Woody
Trademark went dead: 9/17/05
VIP Application for trademark filed: 3/31/05
VE Application for trademark filed: 12/21/06
Trademark status: Opposition to VIP claim pending, further VE action suspended

Ninjak
Trademark went dead: 8/27/05
VIP Application for trademark filed: 3/31/05
VE Application for trademark filed: 12/21/06
Trademark status: Opposition to VIP claim pending, VE mailed notice requesting additional information

How was VIP able to file for TMs that were yet to expire?

[Dr. Solar]

Quantum & Woody
Trademark went dead: 9/17/05
VIP Application for trademark filed: 3/31/05
VE Application for trademark filed: 12/21/06
Trademark status: Opposition to VIP claim pending, further VE action suspended

Ninjak
Trademark went dead: 8/27/05
VIP Application for trademark filed: 3/31/05
VE Application for trademark filed: 12/21/06
Trademark status: Opposition to VIP claim pending, VE mailed notice requesting additional information

How was VIP able to file for TMs that were yet to expire?

I noticed that and was wondering the same thing.

Does that make the registration attempt null and void? Does it put the registration attempt "in queue", so that if the TM is not renewed it goes to the next in line?

Does it do some other weird legal thing?

[Cyberstrike]

cant we all just get along we are all VALIANT fans here ( i might not be able to spell but, i can cap 1 word)

Before Daniel unnecessarily and unjustly started editing and deleting my posts we were cool, but once that started and he made it clear that content on this board would have to comply with that Michael Lovitz wants it changed.

I for one don't plan to let the lawyer dictate what I can or can't say, and if I'm banned for it so be it. At least I'll leave knowing that I did what was right instead of stayed with my tail between my legs afraid to speak my mind.

Ever heard of libel and slander?
The last thing Greg needs is getting sued over this.
Now normally I would agree with you but here in the states people can sue each other for pretty stupid things.
I know that what you said was and should be taken in humorous context and should be taken as such but the last thing this site needs is to be drug into a law suit.

Now I've HEARD (but I'm no lawyer and take this with a massive grain of salt) that we're protected by law from Lovitz.
Think of a message board as a wall and we're graffiti artists the owner of the wall isn't in trouble for any message as long as the message doesn't result in physical harm he can't sue anybody.
That's our first amendment in the USA.
But he could still sue Greg, Daniel, me, and even you (if wants to deal with an international lawsuit), if we say stuff that he feels is a lie, misleading, or is hurtful to business image.

My advice on this situation is just too wait and see and now for the real
important question: WILL VIP GET A COURT INJUNCTION ORDER TO STOP THE HARBINGER HARDCOVER FROM BEING RELEASED?

[Second_Death]

not that is any of my business.... but this is in "General Valiant discussion" so I guess I can chime in.

Myabe you should be able to post whatever you want, but now you are purposly goading DJ.

So in context you might be correct (post what you want, who cares about the laywer), but in excution, you are going about it the wrong way. (IMO)

I'm just warning people of the new rules.

We can't post quotes from movies or colorful language because otherwise DJ will change it out of fear of the lawyer.

Perhaps a disclaimer at the bottom of your post referencing the source of your humor might be appropriate for future posts since we do have lawyers* monitoring our posts.

*Mr Lovitz?.......you stink. By the way, VF and VEI are in no way affiliated with Second_Death. All previous and future comments by Second_Death are the sole property of Second_Death and are not connected to or intended to represent the views of either VF or VEI. I repeat, you stink.

That's no way to live, express your opinion, or speak your mind.

My posts need a disclaimer like a comedian needs a sign that reads "I'm telling jokes, stupid!"

Ths disclaimer suggestion was a weak attempt at humor.

**Mr Lovitz?....you still stink.

[Zero]

"At one point I was approached by the Kothari Group and both sides were agreeable to meeting in order to discuss the issue. My only request was that both sides sign a mutual non-disclosure agreement. Understand that this agreement was a mutual non-disclosure - Valiant Intellectual Properties was interested in protecting its ideas, just as we assumed the Kothari Group would want to protect any ideas they were forming at the time."

I love how he tries to play that mutual non-disclosure agreement off as a way to "protect ideas". It's pretty clear he wanted that form signed so that VEI couldn't out who is behind VIP. Weak sauce right there...

[ManofTheAtom]

cant we all just get along we are all VALIANT fans here ( i might not be able to spell but, i can cap 1 word)

Before Daniel unnecessarily and unjustly started editing and deleting my posts we were cool, but once that started and he made it clear that content on this board would have to comply with that Michael Lovitz wants it changed.

I for one don't plan to let the lawyer dictate what I can or can't say, and if I'm banned for it so be it. At least I'll leave knowing that I did what was right instead of stayed with my tail between my legs afraid to speak my mind.

Ever heard of libel and slander?
The last thing Greg needs is getting sued over this.
Now normally I would agree with you but here in the states people can sue each other for pretty stupid things.
I know that what you said was and should be taken in humorous context and should be taken as such but the last thing this site needs is to be drug into a law suit.

Now I've HEARD (but I'm no lawyer and take this with a massive grain of salt) that we're protected by law from Lovitz.
Think of a message board as a wall and we're graffiti artists the owner of the wall isn't in trouble for any message as long as the message doesn't result in physical harm he can't sue anybody.
That's our first amendment in the USA.
But he could still sue Greg, Daniel, me, and even you (if wants to deal with an international lawsuit), if we say stuff that he feels is a lie, misleading, or is hurtful to business image.

My advice on this situation is just too wait and see and now for the real
important question: WILL VIP GET A COURT INJUNCTION ORDER TO STOP THE HARBINGER HARDCOVER FROM BEING RELEASED?

So Lovitz runs this board now, that's what you're saying.

We should consult with him before posting so that his feelings aren't hurt.... aaaaawwww, the poor baby.

Come on, that's no way to run a board and you know it.

People's feelings get hurt on message boards ALL the time.

Should people stop expressing themselves if the person who's feelings get hurt is a lawyer?

We can insult Presidents and monarchs but heaven forbid we dare to speak ill about a LAWYER.

[ManofTheAtom]

not that is any of my business.... but this is in "General Valiant discussion" so I guess I can chime in.

Myabe you should be able to post whatever you want, but now you are purposly goading DJ.

So in context you might be correct (post what you want, who cares about the laywer), but in excution, you are going about it the wrong way. (IMO)

I'm just warning people of the new rules.

We can't post quotes from movies or colorful language because otherwise DJ will change it out of fear of the lawyer.

Perhaps a disclaimer at the bottom of your post referencing the source of your humor might be appropriate for future posts since we do have lawyers* monitoring our posts.

*Mr Lovitz?.......you stink. By the way, VF and VEI are in no way affiliated with Second_Death. All previous and future comments by Second_Death are the sole property of Second_Death and are not connected to or intended to represent the views of either VF or VEI. I repeat, you stink.

That's no way to live, express your opinion, or speak your mind.

My posts need a disclaimer like a comedian needs a sign that reads "I'm telling jokes, stupid!"

Ths disclaimer suggestion was a weak attempt at humor.

**Mr Lovitz?....you still stink.

Ah, I didn't get it... you're lucky I'm not a mod, I would have censored it.

[ManofTheAtom]

"At one point I was approached by the Kothari Group and both sides were agreeable to meeting in order to discuss the issue. My only request was that both sides sign a mutual non-disclosure agreement. Understand that this agreement was a mutual non-disclosure - Valiant Intellectual Properties was interested in protecting its ideas, just as we assumed the Kothari Group would want to protect any ideas they were forming at the time."

I love how he tries to play that mutual non-disclosure agreement off as a way to "protect ideas". It's pretty clear he wanted that form signed so that VEI couldn't out who is behind VIP. Weak sauce right there...

Careful, his feelings might get hurt

[Zaphod]

I couldn't believe he was upset too. Imagine what the president thinks of the thousands of sites where people mention what they think of him. Granted, most successful politicians do not care what is posted on the internet. Hell George Bush senior was honored by how SNL parodied him.

parody is not threats of violence. All it does is garner sympathy for VIP (or possibly) and that he alludes to Dino being a member of this website it is not a stretch that he is insinuating that Dino is inciting violence against him.

Parody is good, offering rewards for acts of violence is not remotely parody.

[Cyberstrike]

cant we all just get along we are all VALIANT fans here ( i might not be able to spell but, i can cap 1 word)

Before Daniel unnecessarily and unjustly started editing and deleting my posts we were cool, but once that started and he made it clear that content on this board would have to comply with that Michael Lovitz wants it changed.

I for one don't plan to let the lawyer dictate what I can or can't say, and if I'm banned for it so be it. At least I'll leave knowing that I did what was right instead of stayed with my tail between my legs afraid to speak my mind.

Ever heard of libel and slander?
The last thing Greg needs is getting sued over this.
Now normally I would agree with you but here in the states people can sue each other for pretty stupid things.
I know that what you said was and should be taken in humorous context and should be taken as such but the last thing this site needs is to be drug into a law suit.

Now I've HEARD (but I'm no lawyer and take this with a massive grain of salt) that we're protected by law from Lovitz.
Think of a message board as a wall and we're graffiti artists the owner of the wall isn't in trouble for any message as long as the message doesn't result in physical harm he can't sue anybody.
That's our first amendment in the USA.
But he could still sue Greg, Daniel, me, and even you (if wants to deal with an international lawsuit), if we say stuff that he feels is a lie, misleading, or is hurtful to business image.

My advice on this situation is just too wait and see and now for the real
important question: WILL VIP GET A COURT INJUNCTION ORDER TO STOP THE HARBINGER HARDCOVER FROM BEING RELEASED?

So Lovitz runs this board now, that's what you're saying.

We should consult with him before posting so that his feelings aren't hurt.... aaaaawwww, the poor baby.

Come on, that's no way to run a board and you know it.

People's feelings get hurt on message boards ALL the time.

Should people stop expressing themselves if the person who's feelings get hurt is a lawyer?

We can insult Presidents and monarchs but heaven forbid we dare to speak ill about a LAWYER.

No, but what I understand what the mods are asking for is a cooling off period. So lets take a breather and lets this situation die down a bit.
Now, I can't speak for Greg but I'm a admin and a mod at two different
wrestling sites, and there is the wrestler named Andrew Martin (who wrestled in WWE as Test) this guy is not well liked by a lot of Internet fans, now if he comes to my board (the one I admin) and says: "stop
saying crap about me that isn't true or I'll sue you for slander" I would take it very seriously because if he sues me and wins.
I'll be homeless for real.

Now maybe you can take on the lawyers and corporations of the world more power to you, but some of us can't.
It's not because of a lack of courage it's lack of money.

[Zaphod]

Not me.

And the mighty overlord strikes again

MOTA, I would strongly advise giving that a rest.

Is that a... threat?

well, he does have the power to delete your posts at will, so I guess take it for what it's worth.

Mods who delete posts on a whim without justification are abusing their power.

The post didn't have anything that justified taking it out. The only reason he did it was because he's scared of what the lawyer might say next.

Starting today we have to run out posts through Lovitz to see if they're ok.

way to be an *SQUEE* and not be at all concerned about this website, Greg or anyone else who uses this site.

grow up.

[Zero]

If there's one thing that Newsarama article should have brought home it's that we are important. Lovitz directly quoted posts from this site in that article. VIP is reading & taking notes on what we're saying.

WE ARE IMPORTANT!!

We are Valiant's fan base. We are all that any court can point to to find out what we, the only true Valiant fans there are, think about what Valiant is. I would almost bet a Unity 0 red that there will be specific threads printed off & used in court to sway the decision. Please keep that in mind.

All we need to do is say what we think. We don't need to personally attack Lovitz to do that. In fact, it hurts our credibility.

No one's afraid of being sued. Lovitz doesn't care about what some guy in Mexico City thinks about him other than how that comment might affect litigation between VEI & vip. Your passion is great, Mike! In fact, it's needed right now. Please direct it where it belongs, at supporting VEI.

[betterthanezra]

It seems someone bought 4 of these and they already have them on Ebay already look at the BIN and look at the shipping he's still getting that $40 price....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Valiant-AshcanSan-D ... dZViewItem

That said who's going to bite?

-Brian

Looks like someone bought one already....

3 left.

-Brian

[Rubiks-Q-Bert]

And the mighty overlord strikes again

MOTA, I would strongly advise giving that a rest.

Is that a... threat?

well, he does have the power to delete your posts at will, so I guess take it for what it's worth.

Mods who delete posts on a whim without justification are abusing their power.

The post didn't have anything that justified taking it out. The only reason he did it was because he's scared of what the lawyer might say next.

Starting today we have to run out posts through Lovitz to see if they're ok.

way to be an *SQUEE* and not be at all concerned about this website, Greg or anyone else who uses this site.

grow up.

Seconded.

[betterthanezra]

For Lovitz and VIP to sue any of us they would have to come out behind the shadows and reveal who they REALLY are.....At this point I'm sure they aren't willing to do that....

-Brian

[Zaphod]

"At one point I was approached by the Kothari Group and both sides were agreeable to meeting in order to discuss the issue. My only request was that both sides sign a mutual non-disclosure agreement. Understand that this agreement was a mutual non-disclosure - Valiant Intellectual Properties was interested in protecting its ideas, just as we assumed the Kothari Group would want to protect any ideas they were forming at the time."

I love how he tries to play that mutual non-disclosure agreement off as a way to "protect ideas". It's pretty clear he wanted that form signed so that VEI couldn't out who is behind VIP. Weak sauce right there...

Careful, his feelings might get hurt

This isn't a matter of constitutional rights, censorship or "bowing to the man"

You may not like Greg or the people he puts into a position of power, you don't have to agree with their practices but you know what. This is their damned ball diamond and if you want to play ball you're gonna have to play by their rules or go play somewhere else.

Go start up your own Valiantfans board. Invision does free signups, you can be up and running in a matter of hours.

Realize that this situation is alot bigger than you or your ego and if Greg wants it this way, Greg gets it this way.

Throwing a tantrum only makes you look like an idiot.

[Cyberstrike]

If there's one thing that Newsarama article should have brought home it's that we are important. Lovitz directly quoted posts from this site in that article. VIP is reading & taking notes on what we're saying.

WE ARE IMPORTANT!!

We are Valiant's fan base. We are all that any court can point to to find out what we, the only true Valiant fans there are, think about what Valiant is. I would almost bet a Unity 0 red that there will be specific threads printed off & used in court to sway the decision. Please keep that in mind.

All we need to do is say what we think. We don't need to personally attack Lovitz to do that. In fact, it hurts our credibility.

No one's afraid of being sued. Lovitz doesn't care about what some guy in Mexico City thinks about him other than how that comment might affect litigation between VEI & vip. Your passion is great, Mike! In fact, it's needed right now. Please direct it where it belongs, at supporting VEI.

AMEND BROTHER!

[Knightt]

Throwing a tantrum only makes you look like an idiot.

Hey HEY now. MOTA has NEVER needed to throw a tantrum to make himself look like an idiot. (wags finger)

[Zaphod]

Throwing a tantrum only makes you look like an idiot.

Hey HEY now. MOTA has NEVER needed to throw a tantrum to make himself look like an idiot. (wags finger)

I'm sorry
my bad

And I don't meant to start an argument or a thread war but we are all here for the same purpose. Our love of Valiant. We've all invested time here, most people much more than I. If it means me biting my tongue to protect that invested time then I am willing to do what it takes to keep this place litigation free.

[ManofTheAtom]

this guy is not well liked by a lot of Internet fans, now if he comes to my board (the one I admin) and says: "stop
saying crap about me that isn't true or I'll sue you for slander" I would take it very seriously because if he sues me and wins.
I'll be homeless for real.

Now maybe you can take on the lawyers and corporations of the world more power to you, but some of us can't.
It's not because of a lack of courage it's lack of money.

Dude, thanks to Larry Flint you can say that Test likes to have sex with his mom in the outhouse just like I can say that Mike Lovitz likes to suck donkey balls and there's NOTHING they can do about it.

They can't sue, those remarks are protected by the first amedment right of free speech.

This is about the FEAR of a lawsuit.

Your choices are either to keep quiet or read as much as you can on the subject to know what you can or can't get away with.

I suggest you start with the first amedment, once you're done with it you won't have to read anything else.