VIP ASHCAN AT SDCC! Prepare to be SHOCKED.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:51 am

magnusr wrote:
leonmallett wrote:1. Your thinly veiled disdain for the sense of community here. There is an awful strong sense of community. Not everyone likes everyone else, which is okay, but a lot of good things have been done through this place.
And a lot of bad.

...

/Magnus

Agreed. I should have put both sides to that.

jmpet · Post by **jmpet** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:52 am

>Mr Petrilak, I have read a few of your posts over the last couple of pages and a few things seem to shine through:<

As a preface, I will state I am an Aspie. Zephyr was an Aspie too- he just never realized it. This means I am more black and white than most people (like Zephyr), but I have a point to make.

>1. Your thinly veiled disdain for the sense of community here. There is an awful strong sense of community. Not everyone likes everyone else, which is okay, but a lot of good things have been done through this place.<

Yes. I freely admit disdain of this community. Why? Because we're all VALIANT FANS! Where the flock are the Image fans? The Lightning Comics fans? The Continuity Comics fans? We are VALIANT FANS and we stand united against them ALL. Harbinger is a good analogy for a Valiant fan- we just don't care- we're VALIANT FANS.

A 90's Valiant comics blows away any other 90's comic- does anyone disagree? This is our base; this is what unites us. Bottom line is Valiant comics rock! This is our base; this is why we're all here.

>2. Your disdain for the tone of the place. I was an 'outsider', and so was everyone who came later to the party. So what? If you don't like it you don't have to participate.<

I have disdain for this because I simply do not understand most of it, as do all other people not in this clique.

Pages of CC CC CC CC CC CC CC

make no sense to me and advance no point. Reading a 19 page thread that ends in hoo hah only leaves me wondering: did I just waste my time reading 19 pages of irrelevant posts or did I miss the point?

>3. Your disdain for individual posters. Nice. Insulting them is the way to feel a part of the community. See above. (that is a roll of the eyes, by the way).<

I have a deep profound respect for all Valiant fans. Problem is, I don't know what a Valiant fan is anymore. Valiant fans are intrisically outcasts- they prefer crudely-drawn comics over lavishly-drawn Image comics- why? Because they have more substance.

>4. Your high moral ground tone over a deal you took seven and a half years to make right after seemingly making wrong is not going to fly.<

Zephyr's issue for me is two-fold. First, I'd rather die then let someone get away with ripping me off for $1000. And secondly, HIS TONE IS WHAT SET THE TONE. Yeah, I *SQUEE* up. But for every time I *SQUEE* up, I did right 100 other times.

I am sorry I am curt about this, but Zephyr was that 1 in 100 people I never made happy. Ask the countless people who got gold or signed books from me, or back issues they didn't have... running the VFC was a boon and bane but mostly a bane to me- ultimately each VFC issue cost me hundreds of dollars to make.

Yes- I spent hundreds of dollars I didn't have to for years to promote Valiant. I feel this allows me some freedom- after all, who else here laid down over twenty grand on Valiant?

>5. Your "juicy" VALIANT stories because you were there? I don't care at this moment, because right now you are not coming off very well. Each member will decide for themselves how interested they are depending on how you interact. You seem (to me at least) to be quietly saying something to the effect of: "Love me please, I was there, ain't I cool!" <

Well I ain't cool and that's the point of being a Valiant fan in the first place: regardless of whether you're cool or not, you're a Valiant fan and you accept it.

I have done so much for so long for the propriety of Valiant that I feel I am allowed to vent- this is my venting.

I'm not so much a male organ as making a point: Valiant comics are worth a re-read, all other 90's comics are not- case closed.

>6. You seem to arrogantly say that only you and your friend know how to re-do VALIANT right. Of course! What were VEI thinking? Damn, but they should have contacted you instead of Shooter, Hall and Layton.<

I hate to say it, but I am right. There is only one way to relaunch a universe of 20-30 characters and we got it nailed. Putting out a Harbinger TPB with a bonus 8 pages of plot is hardly a relaunch. Give it a month or three and you'll agree.

>PS. Please use the quote function, it helps reading your posts.<

Don't know how to.

I really am a nice guy, trust me. I just like moving forwards, not backwards.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:56 am

Right hand side of the post you wish to quote is a button: "quote", which then opens to a page to reply on.

Can also be done manually by putting tags: quote (wrapped by [ and ]) at the beginning and /quote (wrapped by [ and ]) at the end. You can further break down posts like magnusr did with my post. In the first of the paired tags you can add the board id of the person quoted.

jmpet · Post by **jmpet** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:09 am

Ugh.

Sorry folks- prolonged ranting is not my forte, talking VALIANT is. Magnus put it best: I put Valiant before myself... I am more comfortable talking Valiant then my many shortcomings.

And we have much to discuss.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:11 am

jmpet wrote:>Mr Petrilak, I have read a few of your posts over the last couple of pages and a few things seem to shine through:<

As a preface, I will state I am an Aspie. Zephyr was an Aspie too- he just never realized it. This means I am more black and white than most people (like Zephyr), but I have a point to make.

Forgive my ignorance - but what is an 'Aspie'?

jmpet wrote:>1. Your thinly veiled disdain for the sense of community here. There is an awful strong sense of community. Not everyone likes everyone else, which is okay, but a lot of good things have been done through this place.<

Yes. I freely admit disdain of this community. Why? Because we're all VALIANT FANS! Where the flock are the Image fans? The Lightning Comics fans? The Continuity Comics fans? We are VALIANT FANS and we stand united against them ALL. Harbinger is a good analogy for a Valiant fan- we just don't care- we're VALIANT FANS.

A 90's Valiant comics blows away any other 90's comic- does anyone disagree? This is our base; this is what unites us. Bottom line is Valiant comics rock! This is our base; this is why we're all here.

jmpet wrote:>2. Your disdain for the tone of the place. I was an 'outsider', and so was everyone who came later to the party. So what? If you don't like it you don't have to participate.<

I have disdain for this because I simply do not understand most of it, as do all other people not in this clique.

Pages of CC CC CC CC CC CC CC make no sense to me and advance no point. Reading a 19 page thread that ends in hoo hah only leaves me wondering: did I just waste my time reading 19 pages of irrelevant posts or did I miss the point?

Whilst some may agree with you here, I do not.

jmpet wrote:>3. Your disdain for individual posters. Nice. Insulting them is the way to feel a part of the community. See above. (that is a roll of the eyes, by the way).<

I have a deep profound respect for all Valiant fans. Problem is, I don't know what a Valiant fan is anymore. Valiant fans are intrisically outcasts- they prefer crudely-drawn comics over lavishly-drawn Image comics- why? Because they have more substance.

Sweeping generalisation and only your view. Can someone not like both Coke and Pepsi Max? Well what about VALIANT and good Image books (and there are some)?

jmpet wrote:>4. Your high moral ground tone over a deal you took seven and a half years to make right after seemingly making wrong is not going to fly.<

Zephyr's issue for me is two-fold. First, I'd rather die then let someone get away with ripping me off for $1000. And secondly, HIS TONE IS WHAT SET THE TONE. Yeah, I *SQUEE* up. But for every time I *SQUEE* up, I did right 100 other times.

I am sorry I am curt about this, but Zephyr was that 1 in 100 people I never made happy. Ask the countless people who got gold or signed books from me, or back issues they didn't have... running the VFC was a boon and bane but mostly a bane to me- ultimately each VFC issue cost me hundreds of dollars to make.

Yes- I spent hundreds of dollars I didn't have to for years to promote Valiant. I feel this allows me some freedom- after all, who else here laid down over twenty grand on Valiant?

So, if you say tried to stiff one person out of a thousand dollars, then that is okay because you didn't do it to 99 other people?

jmpet wrote:>5. Your "juicy" VALIANT stories because you were there? I don't care at this moment, because right now you are not coming off very well. Each member will decide for themselves how interested they are depending on how you interact. You seem (to me at least) to be quietly saying something to the effect of: "Love me please, I was there, ain't I cool!" <

Well I ain't cool and that's the point of being a Valiant fan in the first place: regardless of whether you're cool or not, you're a Valiant fan and you accept it.

I have done so much for so long for the propriety of Valiant that I feel I am allowed to vent- this is my venting.

I'm not so much a male organ as making a point: Valiant comics are worth a re-read, all other 90's comics are not- case closed.

I'll put my Starman away then. And Astro City. And my Milestones. And the other DU's not worth a re-read.

jmpet wrote:>6. You seem to arrogantly say that only you and your friend know how to re-do VALIANT right. Of course! What were VEI thinking? Damn, but they should have contacted you instead of Shooter, Hall and Layton.<

I hate to say it, but I am right. There is only one way to relaunch a universe of 20-30 characters and we got it nailed. Putting out a Harbinger TPB with a bonus 8 pages of plot is hardly a relaunch. Give it a month or three and you'll agree.

"I hate to say it, but I am right." Unfortunately there is only way this can be disproven, but that will take time to see a result of. You come off as very arrogant in your view here I am afraid. And if I disagree? Then you will iantian that you are still right and I and any other people who read the (hoped for) new stuff by VEI will be wrong.

jmpet wrote:>PS. Please use the quote function, it helps reading your posts.<

Don't know how to.

I really am a nice guy, trust me. I just like moving forwards, not backwards.

You say you are a nice guy, and I hope you are, but to my mind you have not come off well so far.

jmpet · Post by **jmpet** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:29 am

Folks- I quite don't know how to explain myself but by explaining myself. I was a HUGE comic book fan in the 80's. The first comic book I ever read was Defenders #4 and the first new comic book I ever bought was X-Men #171. From there, it was back and forward- get all the back issues I missed while buying every new issue that came out.

Valiant fell somewhere in the mix for me. It was a brand new comic book company, but their books had the feel of an Avengers #231... there was a lot there- a lot more than the book in hand. That is what hooked me.

Simply put, I love Valiant Comics. And of Valiants, I love the concept of a "Valiant Comics book company": a conglomeration of comic veterans all aligned to put out quality material.

You read a new Valiant and it takes you 6-20 minutes. And the moment you're done reading that new Valiant, the countdown to the next issue begins. Then right on cue the next new Valiant comes out as promised.

Ans yeah- it's not the be-all, end-all of comics but it's a Valiant and it supports the concept of a universal continuity... THAT is what makes a Valiant fan.

Valiant comics made sense. In a world where ASM #151 somehow someway is suddenly relevant, there is Valiant comics showing us what continuity is all about.

For us Valiant fans, our holy grail is Rai #0 simply because it bridges the present to the future... because it makes sense to Valiant continuity... because it fills the missing gaps that are missing... simply put, Valiant is incomplete without Rai #0 to balance it out.

And us, as Valiant-folk, understanding the nature of Valiant Comics - - understanding Rai #0 meant understanding Valiant comics.

This is the Spirit of Valiant Comics.. this is what I speak of.

Does such a thng still exist??

TKWill · Post by **TKWill** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:32 am

Being on the outside and reading this I can honestly say that this is going nowhere fast. You both have very valid arguments and for whatever reason I agree with both of you. Not too long ago I was new to the boards and it took me a long time to start to get the references and I still don't understand many of them. I have come to accept this as the way it is. Is it frustrating? Yes. Do I make references that new people don't understand? Probably. It is the nature of the beast. We are a community and we have sat for years twiddling our thumbs wating for a day that we had no idea would ever come. Is it here? No, not really but it is more than we have had for many years. Believe it or not boredom has set in, if all this board ever did was talk about Valiant all day every day I would have never joined (sorry guys).

I have received stuff from guys that I would have never expected to get and all they know about me is what I post, for me that says alot for the people on this board. I have sent stuff to people for free that I promised myself I would keep forever just because deep down I knew that they deserved it more than I did.

I don't understand your disdain for us, but that is your choice and I respect it. All I ask is that you don't post on here that you don't like us, I mean honestly how are we supposed to feel? I don't agree with everything that is posted on this board and I don't have to, but I do respect everyones commentary whther it furthers the conversation or not. Personally I like thread derailments. All I know of Hobo is that he reminds me of my uncle as far as personality, and to me that is a good thing. Although, I felt the one-finger salute was a little harsh.

TKWill · Post by **TKWill** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:36 am

Deleted.

I finally read the "Enough" thread through. Sorry, I was out of town during that two week period and when I got back the page count was just too daunting.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:39 am

Second_Death wrote:Has it been confirmed that VIP actually sold any of these? I have a hard time believing anyone would part with $5 for one of these much less $40.
.

Do they need to sell any? If their goal is to complicate matters for VEI, all they need to do is to use the trademark. Having something for sale is enough for that, maybe it also helps them to show that they've been talked about, for instance on internet discussion boards.

/Magnus

TKWill · Post by **TKWill** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:48 am

magnusr wrote:
Second_Death wrote:Has it been confirmed that VIP actually sold any of these? I have a hard time believing anyone would part with $5 for one of these much less $40.
.
Do they need to sell any? If their goal is to complicate matters for VEI, all they need to do is to use the trademark. Having something for sale is enough for that, maybe it also helps them to show that they've been talked about, for instance on internet discussion boards.

/Magnus

There is no way that a judge is going to be able to separate the chaffe from the wheat to get what he needs from our discussions, I don't think that we will help their cause.
This just feels so far out of my control and over my head, I don't even know why I post on the topic.

jmpet · Post by **jmpet** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:49 am

leonmallett:

An "Aspie" is someone with Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of comic book fans (or model train fans, or collectible bottle cap fans) are Aspies. "We collect stuff because it make sense to collect it."

>Yes. I freely admit disdain of this community.<

Yes I do, but not in an insutling manner. I think you folks have forgotten what it means to love Valiant comics. I have been trying to explain what it means to love Valiant and think I have.

I remember reading a brand new VH2 comic then posting (posting? It was the mid 90's- posting wasn't invented yet!) how good or bad it was the day after it came out- us folk back then had a (small) say in subsequent issues, you folks today can only look back- there is a difference.
To me, "Valiant" is equal to "reaching for the stars" simply because at that point in time no one else was... this is what sets us Valiant fans apart from all other fans.

>I'll put my Starman away then. And Astro City. And my Milestones. And the other DU's not worth a re-read.<

Dude- step off your high horse. The 1,200 books that were being put out back then were 99.9% crap. Sandman #50 and 57 are still two of my personal faves but they don't wash away the other 999 books that came out the same month that are/were/will always be total SCHITTTTT!!!!!! The only difference is that I can argue that Bloodshot #5 is better than Spawn #8 knowing I will win that argument. Why? Because it was a Valiant.

>You say you are a nice guy, and I hope you are, but to my mind you have not come off well so far.<

This is because I aspire to the standards of a Valiant comic, that means damn the torpedoes and damn your feelings of me, but you will respect Valiant. And that's what it's all about.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:55 am

jmpet wrote:leonmallett:

An "Aspie" is someone with Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of comic book fans (or model train fans, or collectible bottle cap fans) are Aspies. "We collect stuff because it make sense to collect it."

Thanks for clearing that up.

jmpet wrote:>Yes. I freely admit disdain of this community.<

Yes I do, but not in an insutling manner. I think you folks have forgotten what it means to love Valiant comics. I have been trying to explain what it means to love Valiant and think I have.

I remember reading a brand new VH2 comic then posting (posting? It was the mid 90's- posting wasn't invented yet!) how good or bad it was the day after it came out- us folk back then had a (small) say in subsequent issues, you folks today can only look back- there is a difference.
To me, "Valiant" is equal to "reaching for the stars" simply because at that point in time no one else was... this is what sets us Valiant fans apart from all other fans.

So your view is more valid because you were there at the time...?

jmpet wrote:>I'll put my Starman away then. And Astro City. And my Milestones. And the other DU's not worth a re-read.<

Dude- step off your high horse. The 1,200 books that were being put out back then were 99.9% crap. Sandman #50 and 57 are still two of my personal faves but they don't wash away the other 999 books that came out the same month that are/were/will always be total SCHITTTTT!!!!!! The only difference is that I can argue that Bloodshot #5 is better than Spawn #8 knowing I will win that argument. Why? Because it was a Valiant.

High horse? I am sorry you take it that way. I was simply challenging your assertion that ther were no other good comic books in the 90's.

jmpet wrote:>You say you are a nice guy, and I hope you are, but to my mind you have not come off well so far.<

This is because I aspire to the standards of a Valiant comic, that means damn the torpedoes and damn your feelings of me, but you will respect Valiant. And that's what it's all about.

I am sorry but people are people, and comics are comics. Please don't try to position yourself in a btter light bt trying to blur the two. So you haven't come off well so far because you aspire to high standards? It doesn't usually work that way. Very confusing.

jmpet · Post by **jmpet** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:46 am

ThrillKillWill-

Excellent insightful honest post.

Valiant fans are ultimately Valiant fans. Before I was "Joe of the VFC" I was "Joe Valiant": I was "that schmuck dealer who actually thought Valiant comics were worth investing in". Problem is- I still do.

Valiant fans are a community- a community no one outside the Valiant community will ever understand... this is the heart of Valiant.

Valiant fans do stupid stuff like mail each other worthless comics simply because the "other guy dosen't have this book and I have two copies of it"... this is what makes a Valiant fan a Valiant fan. In light of 90's comics, and in light of gold books, rare books and rare gold books there are Valiant fans shipping each other copies of Harbinger #24 simply because. THIS is Valiant.

Knowing (and more importantly) understanding this concept is what makes a Valiant fan a Valiant fan- we're all in this together. And you have a firm grasp of this concept; of the fundamental principles VALIANT is based upon. And for that, you are a true Valiant fan.

I have no disdain for any of you, but I have disdain for ignorance and short-sightedness. Simply put, the best comic books in the past 20+ years have been Valiant comic books- it's just that us Valiant fans have been tagged and pegged and put in a corner in a quiet room and he have accepted it all along and that is where the disdain kicks in- we're not the bad guys- everyone else is!

Thrill- people like you are what keeps Valiant alive. People like you, who realize you miseed out on something great, then proceed to track it down and achieve greatness in the process is what Valiant is all about- I have nothing but the highest regard for your efforts- you remind me of myself buying Solar #10 simply because someone had the balls to finally put out a comic book without the cover... YOU GET IT.

Leonmallett:

>So your view is more valid because you were there at the time...? <

1. YEAH. I WAS THERE. And that has some validity. Like it or not, it does.
2. Yeah, it does. And this is not a point of contention. And until I hear a story firsthand, I will never understand Woodstock either.

And to your other comment...

I don't mince words. And in all honesty (and for simplicity's sake) yeah- there is an ideal I stick to when talking Valiant. And maybe my ideal is 90% wrong, but my ideals still remains. At a time when 99% of the books that came out were crap and we all knew it but we bought into it all because it was a comics boom, I knew Valiant stood apart from the herd. And when comics crashed I knew Valiant were still worth keeping- this is why Valiants are still worth keeping.

You and I agree in principle but not in wording. So let's simplify it- I don't matter, you don't matter, Valiant comics do.

Do you agree?

PS- a Gold Mirage in the original Valiant Mylar to the first person who posts the relevance of my avatar.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:56 am

jmpet wrote:...

Leonmallett:

>So your view is more valid because you were there at the time...? <

1. YEAH. I WAS THERE. And that has some validity. Like it or not, it does.
2. Yeah, it does. And this is not a point of contention. And until I hear a story firsthand, I will never understand Woodstock either.

I am not saying your opinion is invalid, what I am asking is are you suggesting that I might as well stop having my opinion because yours is more important? Because by that logic Massarsky's view would be more valid around here than anyone else's because he was the head honcho for whatever length of time and there is a pecking order that you identify based on direct involvement?

jmpet wrote:And to your other comment...

I don't mince words. And in all honesty (and for simplicity's sake) yeah- there is an ideal I stick to when talking Valiant. And maybe my ideal is 90% wrong, but my ideals still remains. At a time when 99% of the books that came out were crap and we all knew it but we bought into it all because it was a comics boom, I knew Valiant stood apart from the herd. And when comics crashed I knew Valiant were still worth keeping- this is why Valiants are still worth keeping.

You and I agree in principle but not in wording. So let's simplify it- I don't matter, you don't matter, Valiant comics do.

Do you agree?

You are drifting so far off my original point - many of your posts don't appear to have helped in casting you in a better light. You have insulted folk around here. Stop dragging in your alleged principles and alluding to being like a comic book ideal.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:55 am

Dear jmpet,

Please learn how to use the quote function.

Love,

Most VF.com members

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:19 am

don't learn to use it on my account...i just skip anything he has to say.

i don't need to be told how "disdained" i am for not following the approved petrilak methodology of valiant discussions.

everything you've posted since your "return" has been arrogant, self-important garbage.

i don't give a *SQUEE* if you helped layton wash his car, or picked up shooter's dry-cleaning.

congrats...really.

i'm sure you didn't come off as a boot licking toadie at all.

bottom line, i don't like you.

i don't like your attitude.

i don't like your actions.

i don't like your opinions.

i don't like the way you talk to people i consider to be my friends.

this will be my last response to you.

i value magnus' opinion, but i do not share it where you are concerned. i'm sure that magnus and i can remain on civil terms regardless of my feelings towards you.

everyone here is an adult and is more then capable of making up their own minds on how to handle things.

magnus and you are still cool...and that's great for you both.

but i'm not magnus, and while i might value his opinion it doesn't mean i have to share it or subscribe to his point of view.

if that drives a wedge between us, then i guess it does. i hope it doesn't because i don't need to tell folks how great magnus is. it's evident with almost every thing he says or does.

but let's get back to you, shall we? what you did 10 years ago is irrelevant, what i'm judging you off of is how you conduct yourself TODAY.

and brother, i'm not impressed.

don't look down your nose at me because of who you know...it's shallow and elitist.

there may be folks here willing to indulge the vastness that is your ego, but i'm not one of them.

in fact, i'm no longer interested in anything you have to say.

welcome to ignore joe, you're in swell company along with some other "wonderful" and "positive" people.

if my opinion on this matter ostracizes me from the community at large then i'll deal with it.

if anyone would like to discuss this matter with me, then do so privately.

i'll be giving this particular individual no more public attention.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:46 am

jmpet wrote:A 90's Valiant comics blows away any other 90's comic- does anyone disagree?

Yes.

jmpet wrote:I have a deep profound respect for all Valiant fans. Problem is, I don't know what a Valiant fan is anymore. Valiant fans are intrisically outcasts- they prefer crudely-drawn comics over lavishly-drawn Image comics- why? Because they have more substance.

I wasn't aware that Valiants were crudely drawn.

jmpet wrote:Valiant comics are worth a re-read, all other 90's comics are not- case closed.

Utter horse *SQUEE*

jmpet wrote:Ans yeah- it's not the be-all, end-all of comics but it's a Valiant and it supports the concept of a universal continuity... THAT is what makes a Valiant fan.

You know, this and the "crudely drawn" comment makes me think you believe a Valiant fan is someone who settles for *SQUEE* comic books. Kinda like..."You know...they're terribly drawn, and definitely not the end-all-be-all of comics, but whatever...they're Valiants!"

jmpet wrote:Valiant fans are a community- a community no one outside the Valiant community will ever understand... this is the heart of Valiant.

Valiant fans do stupid stuff like mail each other worthless comics simply because the "other guy dosen't have this book and I have two copies of it"... this is what makes a Valiant fan a Valiant fan. In light of 90's comics, and in light of gold books, rare books and rare gold books there are Valiant fans shipping each other copies of Harbinger #24 simply because. THIS is Valiant.

Knowing (and more importantly) understanding this concept is what makes a Valiant fan a Valiant fan- we're all in this together. And you have a firm grasp of this concept; of the fundamental principles VALIANT is based upon. And for that, you are a true Valiant fan.

Idiocy. A Valiant fan is a person who likes Valiants. The only "concept" you have to understand is that you like Valiant comics. You haven't got to send books out to fellow fans, or join a message board, or even own any Valiants of your own.

[/quote]

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:46 am

ThrillKillWill wrote:Being on the outside and reading this I can honestly say that this is going nowhere fast. You both have very valid arguments and for whatever reason I agree with both of you. Not too long ago I was new to the boards and it took me a long time to start to get the references and I still don't understand many of them. I have come to accept this as the way it is. Is it frustrating? Yes. Do I make references that new people don't understand? Probably. It is the nature of the beast. We are a community and we have sat for years twiddling our thumbs wating for a day that we had no idea would ever come. Is it here? No, not really but it is more than we have had for many years. Believe it or not boredom has set in, if all this board ever did was talk about Valiant all day every day I would have never joined (sorry guys).

I have received stuff from guys that I would have never expected to get and all they know about me is what I post, for me that says alot for the people on this board. I have sent stuff to people for free that I promised myself I would keep forever just because deep down I knew that they deserved it more than I did.

Many great points!

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:15 am

cinlach@aol.com wrote:don't learn to use it on my account...i just skip anything he has to say.

i don't need to be told how "disdained" i am for not following the approved petrilak methodology of valiant discussions.

everything you've posted since your "return" has been arrogant, self-important garbage.

i don't give a *SQUEE* if you helped layton wash his car, or picked up shooter's dry-cleaning.

congrats...really.

i'm sure you didn't come off as a boot licking toadie at all.

bottom line, i don't like you.

i don't like your attitude.

i don't like your actions.

i don't like your opinions.

i don't like the way you talk to people i consider to be my friends.

this will be my last response to you.

i value magnus' opinion, but i do not share it where you are concerned. i'm sure that magnus and i can remain on civil terms regardless of my feelings towards you.

magnus and zwh don't get along...you and magnus have history, so when the petrilak vs. zwh thing went down it was no surprise to me to see magnus backing you.

and that's cool...really. everyone here is an adult and is more then capable of making up their own minds on how to handle things.

magnus and you are still cool...and that's great for you both.

but i'm not magnus, and while i might value his opinion it doesn't mean i have to share it or subscribe to his point of view.

if that drives a wedge between us, then i guess it does. i hope it doesn't because i don't need to tell folks how great magnus is. it's evident with almost every thing he says or does.

but let's get back to you, shall we? what you did 10 years ago is irrelevant, what i'm judging you off of is how you conduct yourself TODAY.

and brother, i'm not impressed.

don't look down your nose at me because of who you know...it's shallow and elitist.

there may be folks here willing to indulge the vastness that is your ego, but i'm not one of them.

in fact, i'm no longer interested in anything you have to say.

welcome to ignore joe, you're in swell company along with some other "wonderful" and "positive" people.

if my opinion on this matter ostracizes me from the community at large then i'll deal with it.

if anyone would like to discuss this matter with me, then do so privately.

i'll be giving this particular individual no more public attention.

I was thinking of posting something similiar, but cinlach said everything I was thinking plus more in a much more eloquent way than I could.

I'm sure Joe is a font of VALIANT information, I've heard about him ever since I found this site, which was damn near the beginning. However, if I have to be subjected to his arrogance to hear all these "juicy" VALIANT stories, I'll pass. My life doesn't revolve around VALIANT comics.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:21 am

jmpet wrote: PS- a Gold Mirage in the original Valiant Mylar to the first person who posts the relevance of my avatar.

Thats to EASY

It's you as drawn in the VH-2 Universe by none other than Sal Velluto in Bloodshot

-Brian

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:29 am

Leonmallett wrote:So your view is more valid because you were there at the time...?
jmpet wrote: 1. YEAH. I WAS THERE. And that has some validity. Like it or not, it does.
2. Yeah, it does. And this is not a point of contention. And until I hear a story firsthand, I will never understand Woodstock either.

I probably should keep my yap shut, but I won't...

First off, I agree you have many great stories to tell. I've been around a while myself. I bought the books back in the early '90s, quit comics, & got hooked again back in '99. I caught the last of what you were doing right before Acclaim quit publishing. It was clear that you were a part of what was going on there. I would have said you were Valiant's biggest fan. I respect what you did for Valiant back then & I would love to hear your stories.

That said, the question begs asking: Where have you been the last 7 years? From an outsider's perspective it looks like Acclaim closed shop & so did you. You dropped off the face of Valiant for 7 years. Now that there's a hint that new material's on the way you come back. ...& it's the attitude that boggles me. You come back waving your "I'm #1 Valiant fan" flag & you wonder why people are having trouble taking you seriously. It's easy to be the #1 fan when great books are coming out every month. Try being the #1 fan these past 7 years. I think the man defending you, Magnusr, is much more the example of Valiant's #1 fan than you in my book. He's been here when there was nothing to cheer for. I think I can safely add a score of others to that list. Sadly, your name no longer belongs...

Please don't come back here thinking we've all been waiting years just for you to come back to us. We moved on. If you want to belong then pay your dues again. If you don't want to belong then leave. This, I'm sure, sounds a great deal more harsh than is intended. I'm glad you're here & I hope you stay.

Now, for those stories you promised...

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:37 am

x-omatic wrote:I guess in the VIP universe characters do not have feet.

Drawn by liefield?

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:38 am

dellamorte wrote:
x-omatic wrote:I guess in the VIP universe characters do not have feet.
So Liefeld is VIP

DOH!

beat to the punch....

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:41 am

jmpet wrote:
And why do I think all this legality is so important? Because of the law firm that represents them:

Dewey, Cheatham & Howe...

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:44 am

jmpet wrote: REGARDLESS...

How do you restart the Valiant Universe? Me and Russell have been working this one over for a while and he started drawing stuff recently- rough drawings for a new Valiant comic book. Here's page one- it's really rough and cobbled from multiple pieces with MSPaint lettering but you get the idea:

http://members.aol.com/jmpet/page01.jpg

Russell and I are both passionate about Valiant and we both feel that whatever is true to Valiant is a true Valiant comic book- this is why I am so disappointed with VIP for their lackluster attempt when they had such an oppourtunity. And we still feel that way- whatever is a real Valiant comic book is a real Valiant comic book- anything else is a sham.

There is only one way to relaunch the Valiant Universe correctly. If it's done any other way, it is doomed to fail. We think we figured out the way. We plan to make this comic book and sell it to whoever thinks they own Valiant. And when the fans read it, they'll know they're reading a Valiant comic.

Thoughts???

This would fit right in if Phil was still trapped in the unity wormhole created by erica... Which would mean that all the books put out post-unity would be constructs of Phil's imagination...