VIP ASHCAN AT SDCC! Prepare to be SHOCKED.

[betterthanezra]

Has it been confirmed that VIP actually sold any of these? I have a hard time believing anyone would part with $5 for one of these much less $40.
.

A copy was purchased for the sake of bringing the scans here.

Before I found this at SDCC only ONE other one was sold....to Who? I have NO idea. I called him and he instantly walked three blocks from his hotel to see this thing. I do know that the number of that particular ashcan was 51 of 100.

I took pictures of each page before Chip Carter found me at SDCC for it. Those pictures are the ones we see on this thread.

-Brian

[x-omatic]

I guess in the VIP universe characters do not have feet.

[dellamorte]

I guess in the VIP universe characters do not have feet.

So Liefeld is VIP

[thePike]

I guess in the VIP universe characters do not have feet.

They don't in the Liefield universe either...

This VEI vs VIP debate definitely is making for some interesting reading. Unfortunately, any legal disputes can remain private until it's over and then it becomes public domain (unless of course they settle and never have an official verdict; then we may never know what is/has been going on).

VEI needs a blog...

[X-O HoboJoe]

I guess in the VIP universe characters do not have feet.

So Liefeld is VIP

Quick! Somebody count the teeth!

[jmpet]

>1) Non-Profit and Educational - who is VIP, what are their plans?

My guess is these guys are trying to blackmail VEI- whether they publish or not. This ashcan is the method: a "comic book" that names the characters and comes with a rough drawing of them.

>Has it been confirmed that VIP actually sold any of these? I have a hard time believing anyone would part with $5 for one of these much less $40.<

That is the whole point- these guys are trying to sell a copy of this before the Harbinger TPB comes out (and after it's solicited, BTW)... this is partly why I think they're nothing but sheisters.

The last part of the patent application is actually selling a copy of your patent. Once you sell one copy... once it is publically recorded that someone...ANYONE actually bought one copy, then the patent becomes active. THAT is why they made this ashcan.

(And I bet that's why a lawyer was there along with the VIP guy trying to sell copies to dealers.)(This is also why they were selling "$40.00 comic books for $5.00.")

(Personally, I technically own Solar- I had Frank Bolle draw up some drawings and I sold them on eBay. I just never enforced my rights as the patent holder.)

And since this ashcan came out before the Harbinger TPB does, when the Harbinger TPB comes out a month or so later, these guys can sue VEI for copyright infrigement- sheisters.

As far as the drawings themselves- they're "drawings based on third hand accounts, based on text descriptions of them". They were drawn badly on purpose- if they looked exactly like Valiant guys, they're in clear violation of copyright law (this is why I never enforced my Solar patent).

But if they look like this and become legal (which they are now, now that they sold a copy of the book), they can later be redrawn as they are supposed to... why? Because the drawings are "based on third hand accounts, based on text descriptions". In other words "Mirage is supposed to look like Mirage- we just had a bad artist, that's all." Shiesters.

And why do I think all this legality is so important? Because of the law firm that represents them:

>About Connolly Bove Lodge & Hutz LLP
Connolly Bove Lodge & Hutz LLP is one of the nation’s leading intellectual property and business law firms, headquartered in Wilmington, Delaware with additional offices in Washington DC and California.

Our firm is nationally recognized for its expertise in Intellectual Property law and in particular, patent law, the centerpiece of our IP practice. Our success in patent litigation has not only protected key technologies but it has helped shape the law on important issues regarding patents. We have served as lead counsel in trials and appeals throughout the United States, including the United States Supreme Court, the United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit and the International Trade Commission. In addition, we have prosecuted some of the most important patents over the past decades.<

My guess is these guys are looking for a handout or payoff from VEI because they technically legally can possibly sue and possibly maybe win perhaps in court. I conclude this because these guys had all the time in the world to put out a good, solid ashcan that actually generates interest but in fact put out something that took less than a week to make and has no intellectual value apart from the text beneath the character's name-

This reminds me of the lawsuit McFarlane had where he lost like $60 million for using someone's name... this is the angle they're going for. Shiesters.

Oh- and if VEI never puts out anything, then they spent a million dollars for nothing. See how it's a scam?

REGARDLESS...

How do you restart the Valiant Universe? Me and Russell have been working this one over for a while and he started drawing stuff recently- rough drawings for a new Valiant comic book. Here's page one- it's really rough and cobbled from multiple pieces with MSPaint lettering but you get the idea:

http://members.aol.com/jmpet/page01.jpg

Russell and I are both passionate about Valiant and we both feel that whatever is true to Valiant is a true Valiant comic book- this is why I am so disappointed with VIP for their lackluster attempt when they had such an oppourtunity. And we still feel that way- whatever is a real Valiant comic book is a real Valiant comic book- anything else is a sham.

There is only one way to relaunch the Valiant Universe correctly. If it's done any other way, it is doomed to fail. We think we figured out the way. We plan to make this comic book and sell it to whoever thinks they own Valiant. And when the fans read it, they'll know they're reading a Valiant comic.

Thoughts???

[jmpet]

>Ah yes, but in the other cases they have acquired the properties the right way and have nothing to slink around about. Also, in the case of VEI, don't forget the reason they haven't been able to talk about anything is because of VIP.<

I disagree with this comment. The reason VEI hasn't had anything to say is because they have nothing to say- they're playing the same game VIP is playing but from a different legal perspective. Let's not forget neither company has shown us anything new- the only leg up VEI has is they apparently paid Shooter royalties for Harbinger (and VIP's monies went to lawyers).

I am not too thrilled with VEI either. I remember as far back as mid-VH1 firsthand and Valiant was always full of ideas and looking for more... this is what made Valiant cool- it was a house of ideas just like Marvel was in the 60's... this is what made Valiant Valiant.

But I have not seen this from VEI and that tells you something. From the outset, Fabian and I were enemies. Because he knew he couldn't successfully relaunch Valiant because he knew there were people like me out there ready and willing to point out how this wasn't a successful Valiant relaunch- this is why the photo shoot of me and Fabe has him bowing down to me with me embarrased- he was pointing this out.

Personally, I believe Valiant is still up for grabs, and whoever puts out quality material first wins. But I fear neither VEI or VIP has a clue.

[X-O HoboJoe]

[greg]

I fear neither VEI or VIP has a clue.

I don't fear VEI... they are playing chess.

Their "opening move" is a 200 page Harbinger hardcover, digitally remastered,
with a new "Origin of Harada" story by Jim Shooter, drawn by Bob Hall,
and on sale for $24.95 (or less using standard bookseller discounts).

As a Valiant fan, VEI has already won. One move.

VIP should just tip over their king. Checkmate.

[Dr. Solar]

I also seem to recall "purchasing" this hardcover collection with NEW material well before I heard about this ashcan being distributed. Luckily, I have a receipt.

I think that making Jim Shooter and Bob Hall the creative force behind new VALIANT material is the way to make anything new feel like it is really a VALIANT book.

[StarBrand]

I also seem to recall "purchasing" this hardcover collection with NEW material well before I heard about this ashcan being distributed. Luckily, I have a receipt.

I think that making Jim Shooter and Bob Hall the creative force behind new VALIANT material is the way to make anything new feel like it is really a VALIANT book.

Don't forget Layton's done work for VEI already also. I can't wait for that. Can you say 'X-O?'

[jmpet]

X-O HoboJoe-
I gotta be honest- I have no idea what an emoticon of a face looking up means. For that matter, I have absolutely no idea what the vast majority of the posts on this site mean either. Pages of CC: cc: CC: cc: CC: cc: (insert one liner) make no sense to me just as your face looking up does.

I apologize for the small rant, but I thought the point of this forum was to discuss things. And I understand there's been nothing to discuss for the past seven-plus years because there have been no new Valiant comic books, but there are now- two, in fact.

And in all honesty, I am not against VEI, I just don't think it's possible to relaunch 20+ charaters all at once, which is what they are trying to do.

My first Valiant comic was Solar #10 which I picked off the new book rack and threw in the closet. Why? Because they had the balls to put out a book with an all black cover- that's why.

And a year-plus later, when I actually read it, I realized there was more to Valiant than all black covers and this is why I became (and still am) a Valiant fan- because Valiant's got balls.

What made Valiant Valiant is that they talked the talk (which forced them to either put up or shut up), and they walked the walk. And to that end, many a night were spent and lost at Valiant HQ working until the wee hours of the night with among others BWS sitting in Knob Row inking his has off in total agony and why? Because of the dealine. Because the shipping date was X/XX- that's why. Because it hadda get done.

Perhaps a small explanation will clarify matters. When I post something, it is a truth to me. And I expect this truth to remain true. In other words, instead of posting clever emoticons, I rant about Valiant because I have a point to make- something that advances open dialogue, as opposed to a momentary lapse of reason.

[jmpet]

>I don't fear VEI... they are playing chess. Their "opening move" is a 200 page Harbinger hardcover, digitally remastered, with a new "Origin of Harada" story by Jim Shooter, drawn by Bob Hall, and on sale for $24.95 (or less using standard bookseller discounts).<

This is a good opening move, but I fear even this is not enough. Remember the hub-bub NIO had? Where'd all that go?

>As a Valiant fan, VEI has already won. One move.<

I agree from a legal perspective- VIP will argue their book came out first but VEI will counter-argue their book was solicited first... and they'll win.

>I also seem to recall "purchasing" this hardcover collection with NEW material well before I heard about this ashcan being distributed. Luckily, I have a receipt.<

No you didn't- you purchased the promise of a future release of a comic book in the future. You handed over your money and didn't get anything in hand in turn. This is what makes VIP legally relevant, but ultimately wrong.

>I think that making Jim Shooter and Bob Hall the creative force behind new VALIANT material is the way to make anything new feel like it is really a VALIANT book.<

I disagree, mostly because both have been down this road before. We need new vigor- someone new willing to *SQUEE* off the system again to make a point- this is where I give VIP credit. We need a new perspective. We need "same as it never was" but for real and neither is offering this.

>Don't forget Layton's done work for VEI already also. I can't wait for that. Can you say 'X-O?'<

We will never see the pre-Unity, VH1 Aric again. He is mired in legal disputes and copyright infringements.

Shooter once talked about Superman. Personally I thought it was foolish to weave in an all-powerful character to a universe of heroes with limits. Shooter countered, saying "all Superman needs is a good writer". And he was right. Bottom line- comic books are stories.

[Dr. Solar]

By the way, Hobo. I agree with you.

[cobra_commander]

X-O HoboJoe-
I gotta be honest- I have no idea what an emoticon of a face looking up means. For that matter, I have absolutely no idea what the vast majority of the posts on this site mean either. Pages of CC: cc: CC: cc: CC: cc: (insert one liner) make no sense to me just as your face looking up does.

What does this have to do with me?

[jmpet]

I truly find it amazing that "all of this" has boiled down to emoticons and vague references to things no one truly understands that makes no sense and has no thought or insight apart from "something to post for the sake of posting". This only tells me that to you folks, "Valiant" is one of the few/many things you do when you log on and little more... that it's become THAT to you... nothing more than an epitaph that "you were here".

I remember when the highlight of my week was new comic day when I'd get to read the newest installment of Valiant comics- that is the essence of Valiant.

Maybe I am wrong and maybe this is an utter waste of my time. But I really don't think I am wrong.

But maybe I am, and all that remains is :0

Well

[X-O HoboJoe]

X-O HoboJoe-
I gotta be honest- I have no idea what an emoticon of a face looking up means. For that matter, I have absolutely no idea what the vast majority of the posts on this site mean either. Pages of CC: cc: CC: cc: CC: cc: (insert one liner) make no sense to me just as your face looking up does.

I apologize for the small rant, but I thought the point of this forum was to discuss things. And I understand there's been nothing to discuss for the past seven-plus years because there have been no new Valiant comic books, but there are now- two, in fact.

And in all honesty, I am not against VEI, I just don't think it's possible to relaunch 20+ charaters all at once, which is what they are trying to do.

My first Valiant comic was Solar #10 which I picked off the new book rack and threw in the closet. Why? Because they had the balls to put out a book with an all black cover- that's why.

And a year-plus later, when I actually read it, I realized there was more to Valiant than all black covers and this is why I became (and still am) a Valiant fan- because Valiant's got balls.

What made Valiant Valiant is that they talked the talk (which forced them to either put up or shut up), and they walked the walk. And to that end, many a night were spent and lost at Valiant HQ working until the wee hours of the night with among others BWS sitting in Knob Row inking his has off in total agony and why? Because of the dealine. Because the shipping date was X/XX- that's why. Because it hadda get done.

Perhaps a small explanation will clarify matters. When I post something, it is a truth to me. And I expect this truth to remain true. In other words, instead of posting clever emoticons, I rant about Valiant because I have a point to make- something that advances open dialogue, as opposed to a momentary lapse of reason.

It's the "I techincally own Solar" comment -- it just . . . I really don't know how to describe what reading that did to my poor little brain.

I think "I'm nailing both Olsen twins at the same time" might have the same effect.

[X-O HoboJoe]

X-O HoboJoe-
I gotta be honest- I have no idea what an emoticon of a face looking up means. For that matter, I have absolutely no idea what the vast majority of the posts on this site mean either. Pages of CC: cc: CC: cc: CC: cc: (insert one liner) make no sense to me just as your face looking up does.

What does this have to do with me?

It's your fault. Somehow.

[jmpet]

cobra_commander- your emoticon makes sense because it has relevance, because your CC'ed a specific comment, not an entire posting. And by that, it is clever and well timed. But I really don't understand how someone's three seconds of thought and a quick emoticon counters a post that took an hour to carefully craft.

Maybe I am no longer relevant. Maybe I am just too old and no longer get it. Well if so, then



(Does that make me relevant?)

[X-O HoboJoe]

BTW, the position of Talking Animal Joke-Killer is taken. Chiclo might not like you trying to squat in his house.

[jmpet]

You know what made a Valiant a Valiant? It was those 6-20 minutes it took you to read it, because those were magical moments where you didn't have to worry about all the effort that went into making it as much as actually reading the finished thing- in your hands and on time as promised. And relevant to a larger storyline. Image Comics never understood this- to them, it was all about image. But to Valiant, it was about cranking it out. This is why Valiants will never be judged the best drawn comics, but they're the best comics nonetheless. And they are.

Now what's the proper three second emoticon to follow up this comment, HoboJoe?

[cobra_commander]

cobra_commander- your emoticon makes sense because it has relevance, because your CC'ed a specific comment, not an entire posting. And by that, it is clever and well timed. But I really don't understand how someone's three seconds of thought and a quick emoticon counters a post that took an hour to carefully craft.

Maybe I am no longer relevant. Maybe I am just too old and no longer get it. Well if so, then



(Does that make me relevant?)

Hang on, I'm still thinking about the image of nailing both Olsen twins at the same time..

[X-O HoboJoe]

You know what made a Valiant a Valiant? It was those 6-20 minutes it took you to read it, because those were magical moments where you didn't have to worry about all the effort that went into making it as much as actually reading the finished thing- in your hands and on time as promised. And relevant to a larger storyline. Image Comics never understood this- to them, it was all about image. But to Valiant, it was about cranking it out. This is why Valiants will never be judged the best drawn comics, but they're the best comics nonetheless. And they are.

Now what's the proper three second emoticon to follow up this comment, HoboJoe?

*Edit*

[Dr. Solar]

First, I think that many people on this board made decisions about your character based on how certain things were handled when you resurfaced on this board a couple months ago, and that is going to have a big influence on how people respond to you on this board. I don't mean this as my personal opinion, just as my observation.

I am sure that people will be quick to change attitudes, for the better, once it becomes known that everything was resolved. This is a reality of the current situation, and I don't think people are going to pretend that this reality doesn't exist.


Second, yes, we screw around a lot on this board. That is because there is a big sense of community here, and we have gotten to know and befriend each other here. Friends mess around with each other to have fun.

This isn't just a place for us to discuss VALIANT comics, it is a place for us to come and interact with each other, with our love of VALIANT comics being the common denominator amongst us. Sometimes it's a bit random, sometimes it doesn't make sense unless you get a reference, and sometimes there are really good discussions about VALIANT.


These are my thoughts and insights on the matter.

[superman-prime]

now thats funny , did i pass u on the freeway yesterday lol lol