Gold Valiants 4 Sale..

cobra_commander · Post by **cobra_commander** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:14 am

400yrs wrote:
chainnball wrote:The problem is Rhett has been fortunate enough to have a few bidders/speculators/newbies bid silly money on some of his auctions, therefore creating an artificial demand. I've explained to him this is not the norm, and hey, more power to him, but I will not pay even half of the going or guide price of these books knowing there is 500 mint copies of each just waiting to hit the market.
Nope. In bulk, I'd be willing to do $5 - $8 on those depending on the book. This WILL be another X-O 1/2 situation in the future. CKB is right.

I'd agree with that.

SnotDrip · Post by **SnotDrip** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:08 pm

Is this guy getting them slabbed??

chainnball · Post by **chainnball** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:58 pm

I don't know for sure, but I believe he is slabbing some.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:02 pm

Please keep us up on this if you can. I'd like to buy a few of these golds, but I'm not going over $5.00-$8.00 each.

Rubiks-Q-Bert · Post by **Rubiks-Q-Bert** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:04 pm

Ben(inabox) wrote:Shipping, sunlight, and water will not change the grade of it.

That does not sound right. If during shipping the case becomes cracked and rips the book, it's still the same grade? If it fades to a point where you can't tell the original color, it's still the same grade? Your house floods and the case gets water in it and wrinkles the pages and the staples rust, it's still the same grade?

Rubiks-Q-Bert · Post by **Rubiks-Q-Bert** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:05 pm

Zero wrote:Please keep us up on this if you can. I'd like to buy a few of these golds, but I'm not going over $5.00-$8.00 each.

I guess that all depends on if he reveals himself or sends you a message like he has done to others.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:07 pm

goki31 wrote:Whether you bought it for .50cent or $10,000 doesn't really matter to me..What matters is what and which ones I choose to read at my own leisure. On that note, just because I bought a GOLD for $25 doesn't necessarily mean that I have the .50cent ones to read with.. You are presuming that everyone has every copy wether is GOLD or not here. No,
don't do that... Again, whatever I paid on it will get read and not slabbed right away so I can hope to gain value on it. Speaking of slabbing your comics I think those are pretty well set in STONE.. I mean when your comics becomes worthless is that when you will decide wether you want to take a crack at it so you can maybe read it? Should you wait til is worthless or should you try reading it now?

I really don't get why someone who is mainly interested in reading and not necessarily about the value would even want to buy a gold. Why not just go after the common fodder and save yourself a ton of $$$?

sckao · Post by **sckao** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:34 pm

ckb wrote:A board member was just quoted (by the seller with the hundreds of gold copies) the following prices:

Bloodshot 0 Gold $22
Shadowman 0 Gold $22
Armorines Stand Alone $25

Not to single any one person out since everyone seems to agree... but HAS ANYONE CHECKED GREG'S GUIDE?

Bloodshot 0 Gold $22
Shadowman 0 Gold $22
Armorines Stand Alone $25

May 2006 VALIANTCOMICS.COM GUIDE PRICE:
(since we made a special case of mentioning that the guide was over a year old for someone else's valuation.)

Bloodshot 0 Gold $21
Shadowman 0 Gold $21
Armorines Stand Alone $22

So as far as I can tell, he's quoted just a little bit above GREG'S GUIDE for his golds. It's not like he is quoting MULTIPLES of Greg's guide.

Browbeating him for not selling it "affordably" just because he has a lot of the issue smacks of peer pressure that I don't think this person deserves.

Once again, would anyone be complaining if it was NOT known that he had hundreds of copies? Why does that make a difference? If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

By focusing on it in this thread, what you're all doing is colluding to try and force another collector to lower his pricing for your own benefit, not for the benefit of the overall Valiant community.

If Greg's Guide from 2006 is INCORRECT, then it should be changed to reflect that. X-O 1/2 Gold still lists for $36 there.

Greg's guide is like GPA; it is a historical pricing guide. It doesn't and can't drive prices upwards unless individuals/retailers make new highs.

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:08 pm

I'm sorry, it is unethical to sell something whose value is based on rarity and availability for a price based on the item's rarity and availability - when you are sitiing on 600 of them and there is no demand to sell that many.

The arguement that the print run was known when the price was at $25 doesn't hold, because a major componenet of the price is how many are available, not only how many were made.

So, in this case, asking for guide is overcharging and it would be overcharging even if we did not know about the find.

As in the 1/2 gold situation, that took care of itself, and the price went from $200 to $20 in a matter of months. It took that long because the extent of the find was not known. Anyone who bought one over $50 has little chance to recover that investment.

The only thing different here, with the find being known, is that we have an opportunity to compress the time period it is going to take to diminish to 1/10th the price it is at now. I intend to use that chance to save everyone some $$ they do not need to spend. All they need to do is wait.

mobstirr · Post by **mobstirr** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:11 pm

sckao wrote:
ckb wrote:A board member was just quoted (by the seller with the hundreds of gold copies) the following prices:

Bloodshot 0 Gold $22
Shadowman 0 Gold $22
Armorines Stand Alone $25

Not to single any one person out since everyone seems to agree... but HAS ANYONE CHECKED GREG'S GUIDE?

Bloodshot 0 Gold $22
Shadowman 0 Gold $22
Armorines Stand Alone $25

May 2006 VALIANTCOMICS.COM GUIDE PRICE:
(since we made a special case of mentioning that the guide was over a year old for someone else's valuation.)

Bloodshot 0 Gold $21
Shadowman 0 Gold $21
Armorines Stand Alone $22

So as far as I can tell, he's quoted just a little bit above GREG'S GUIDE for his golds. It's not like he is quoting MULTIPLES of Greg's guide.

Since remaining anonymous makes me feel like "Deepthroat" (not Linda Loveless, but W. Mark Felt, former assistant director of the FBI during the Nixon Adminstration), I was the person who received the aforementioned price quote on Gold's from the "pallet collection." Being the new guy here, I didn't want to be labeled as someone who starts trouble on the boards, which is why I didn't step forward sooner.

sckao wrote:Browbeating him for not selling it "affordably" just because he has a lot of the issue smacks of peer pressure that I don't think this person deserves.

I don't feel as if anyone is "browbeating" Rhett, and I would encourage against it. In my communications with him he seemed like a really great guy, a person of integrity, and someone that I would feel comfortable doing business with.

sckao wrote:Once again, would anyone be complaining if it was NOT known that he had hundreds of copies? Why does that make a difference? If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

That, to me, is the true question. Knowing that there are 100's (possibily 500+ of each title) of potential 9.8 copies of these books soon to hit the market, books that were previously unknown of, makes all of the difference. Any value attributed to the Gold variants are due to their scarcity. Apparently they are no longer scarce.

Armed with that information, if anyone is willing to pay those prices I encourage them to do business with Rhett, as he seems like a great person to deal with. Personally, I plan to wait until after a large quantity of these books hit the market and pick them up for the $8-12 I can usually buy Gold varaints for.

sckao wrote:By focusing on it in this thread, what you're all doing is colluding to try and force another collector to lower his pricing for your own benefit, not for the benefit of the overall Valiant community.

I disagree. The initial message in this post advised that:

goki31 wrote:I just purchased some Gold Valiants from this seller---> Rhet K. on Ebay. He gave me a good deal on them especially when you buy multiples & or mix and match including shipping.

I contacted the seller looking for a "good" deal. Guide price is not a good deal, it's guide price. That's why I reached out to guys like ckb and chain, whom I trust and have done business with before, to get their advice.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:04 pm

sckao wrote:
ckb wrote:A board member was just quoted (by the seller with the hundreds of gold copies) the following prices:

Bloodshot 0 Gold $22
Shadowman 0 Gold $22
Armorines Stand Alone $25

Not to single any one person out since everyone seems to agree... but HAS ANYONE CHECKED GREG'S GUIDE?

Bloodshot 0 Gold $22
Shadowman 0 Gold $22
Armorines Stand Alone $25

May 2006 VALIANTCOMICS.COM GUIDE PRICE:
(since we made a special case of mentioning that the guide was over a year old for someone else's valuation.)

Bloodshot 0 Gold $21
Shadowman 0 Gold $21
Armorines Stand Alone $22

So as far as I can tell, he's quoted just a little bit above GREG'S GUIDE for his golds. It's not like he is quoting MULTIPLES of Greg's guide.

Browbeating him for not selling it "affordably" just because he has a lot of the issue smacks of peer pressure that I don't think this person deserves.

Once again, would anyone be complaining if it was NOT known that he had hundreds of copies? Why does that make a difference? If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

By focusing on it in this thread, what you're all doing is colluding to try and force another collector to lower his pricing for your own benefit, not for the benefit of the overall Valiant community.

If Greg's Guide from 2006 is INCORRECT, then it should be changed to reflect that. X-O 1/2 Gold still lists for $36 there.

Greg's guide is like GPA; it is a historical pricing guide. It doesn't and can't drive prices upwards unless individuals/retailers make new highs.

Can someone please explain to me that it is possible to be a comic dealer / seller, but NOT be able to understand the simple economics concept of the supply / demand curve and how price is affected?

sckao · Post by **sckao** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:28 pm

400yrs wrote:
sckao wrote:
ckb wrote:A board member was just quoted (by the seller with the hundreds of gold copies) the following prices:

Bloodshot 0 Gold $22
Shadowman 0 Gold $22
Armorines Stand Alone $25

Not to single any one person out since everyone seems to agree... but HAS ANYONE CHECKED GREG'S GUIDE?

Bloodshot 0 Gold $22
Shadowman 0 Gold $22
Armorines Stand Alone $25

May 2006 VALIANTCOMICS.COM GUIDE PRICE:
(since we made a special case of mentioning that the guide was over a year old for someone else's valuation.)

Bloodshot 0 Gold $21
Shadowman 0 Gold $21
Armorines Stand Alone $22

So as far as I can tell, he's quoted just a little bit above GREG'S GUIDE for his golds. It's not like he is quoting MULTIPLES of Greg's guide.

Browbeating him for not selling it "affordably" just because he has a lot of the issue smacks of peer pressure that I don't think this person deserves.

Once again, would anyone be complaining if it was NOT known that he had hundreds of copies? Why does that make a difference? If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

By focusing on it in this thread, what you're all doing is colluding to try and force another collector to lower his pricing for your own benefit, not for the benefit of the overall Valiant community.

If Greg's Guide from 2006 is INCORRECT, then it should be changed to reflect that. X-O 1/2 Gold still lists for $36 there.

Greg's guide is like GPA; it is a historical pricing guide. It doesn't and can't drive prices upwards unless individuals/retailers make new highs.
Can someone please explain to me that it is possible to be a comic dealer / seller, but NOT be able to understand the simple economics concept of the supply / demand curve and how price is affected?

Just because you have something in quantity does not mean that it will ever hit the market. What you're doing is changing the market BEFORE letting the free market correct itself. That's called manipulation.

If that's not clear enough, please let me know.

On another note:

Selling something on the open market is hardly "unethical".

Here's what might be "unethical". In the spirit of fair play, a boardmember puts up an auction starting at $.99 cents with no reserve. The seller takes the risk that the item will sell for $.99. Other boardmembers collude to keep the price down on that item by agreeing to not bid on that item even though they DO want it. Is that illegal? Clearly not.

Is it in the spirit of fairplay for the seller?

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:31 pm

Put some of those books up at $.99 and let's all agree that none of y'all are going to bid on it and we'll see. Like an experiment where I win those books cheaply.

In all seriousness, though, 6 months ago a very significant chunk of the people who would bid on auctions like that were posters on this board. Now that chunk is not nearly as significant as it was. Our collusion would not be as strong a determining force in the market as it was 6 months ago.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:41 pm

sckao wrote:Just because you have something in quantity does not mean that it will ever hit the market. What you're doing is changing the market BEFORE letting the free market correct itself. That's called manipulation.

You call it manipulation. I call it perception.

Perception affects economics every bit as much as reality. The perceived entry of this large supply of gold books into the market automatically drops their perceived worth.

Is the print run larger? No. But, the supply available to the market just increased dramatically by the sellers admittance that they a) had this large supply, b) they are not involved in the comic industry, & c) that they plan to move this supply.

You see this in the stock market all the time. A press release will generally affect stock prices + or - the following day even if the company is no better or worse off. Perception plays a big role in that. ...& I say perception is a big part in the market correcting itself.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:44 pm

And those corrections, whether they are in the stock market or premium comic prices, are by no means permenant.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:13 pm

sckao wrote: Just because you have something in quantity does not mean that it will ever hit the market. What you're doing is changing the market BEFORE letting the free market correct itself. That's called manipulation.

In this case we have been told that the seller is selling the books through ebay for someone else who is not a collector. With that in mind, there is no reason to believe that most of these books will not hit the open market over the next year (maybe two). If I know that there is a possibility that there will be a ton of these books out there, I'm not going to overpay.

And I'm DEFINITELY not going to pay over guide prices (which, of course, Greg's guide prices INCLUDE shipping) on these books that more often than not have been bought on ebay for LESS than guide OFTEN.

NOT paying this guy's prices is just the SMART thing to do. Can you argue otherwise??????

sckao wrote: Here's what might be "unethical". In the spirit of fair play, a boardmember puts up an auction starting at $.99 cents with no reserve. The seller takes the risk that the item will sell for $.99. Other boardmembers collude to keep the price down on that item by agreeing to not bid on that item even though they DO want it. Is that illegal? Clearly not.

That is the chance a seller takes when he chooses not to use a reserve. Is that unethical of the buyers??? NO WAY. It's called choice. Buyers have it and they may choose to use it to keep the price down on something they may want or need for any reason they desire. Sellers are at the mercy of buyers whether they want to be or not. That's just the way it is.

And if it was the other way around - if the seller had a monopoly over an item.... Well, technically, that's supposed to be illegal.

That's just how it is in the US.

cobra_commander · Post by **cobra_commander** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:24 pm

sckao wrote:Not to single any one person out since everyone seems to agree... but HAS ANYONE CHECKED GREG'S GUIDE?

Err..Greg's guide isn't so much an accurate price guide so much as an 'abandoned hobby'..

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:27 pm

cobra_commander wrote:
sckao wrote:Not to single any one person out since everyone seems to agree... but HAS ANYONE CHECKED GREG'S GUIDE?
Err..Greg's guide isn't so much an accurate price guide so much as an 'abandoned hobby'..

I thought Greg mentioned that he quit updating it because the prices really hadn't changed?

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:32 pm

Zero wrote:
cobra_commander wrote:
sckao wrote:Not to single any one person out since everyone seems to agree... but HAS ANYONE CHECKED GREG'S GUIDE?
Err..Greg's guide isn't so much an accurate price guide so much as an 'abandoned hobby'..
I thought Greg mentioned that he quit updating it because the prices really hadn't changed?

In the case of pre unity I think it's about right. Some the later Acclaim books though I feel should be worth significantly more. There just are not enough auctions to get a good feel in some cases though.

whovianone · Post by **whovianone** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:35 pm

Zero wrote:
cobra_commander wrote:
sckao wrote:Not to single any one person out since everyone seems to agree... but HAS ANYONE CHECKED GREG'S GUIDE?
Err..Greg's guide isn't so much an accurate price guide so much as an 'abandoned hobby'..
I thought Greg mentioned that he quit updating it because the prices really hadn't changed?

I vaguely remember him mentioning that.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:40 pm

ckb wrote:I'm sorry, it is unethical to sell something whose value is based on rarity and availability for a price based on the item's rarity and availability - when you are sitiing on 600 of them and there is no demand to sell that many.

The arguement that the print run was known when the price was at $25 doesn't hold, because a major componenet of the price is how many are available, not only how many were made.

So, in this case, asking for guide is overcharging and it would be overcharging even if we did not know about the find.

As in the 1/2 gold situation, that took care of itself, and the price went from $200 to $20 in a matter of months. It took that long because the extent of the find was not known. Anyone who bought one over $50 has little chance to recover that investment.

The only thing different here, with the find being known, is that we have an opportunity to compress the time period it is going to take to diminish to 1/10th the price it is at now. I intend to use that chance to save everyone some $$ they do not need to spend. All they need to do is wait.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:41 pm

sckao wrote: By focusing on it in this thread, what you're all doing is colluding to try and force another collector to lower his pricing for your own benefit, not for the benefit of the overall Valiant community.

Rereading. Heh.

This statement doesn't make any sense to me. If this isn't the VALIANT community, then please point me to it?!?

It's not collusion. It's informing others so that they can avoid the possibility of spending more now than they more than likely will have to in the future (or even through ebay right now). If informing others within the community isn't the right thing to do (oh yeah, I forgot, this isn't the VALIANT community), then what is?

cobra_commander · Post by **cobra_commander** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:59 pm

400yrs wrote:
sckao wrote: By focusing on it in this thread, what you're all doing is colluding to try and force another collector to lower his pricing for your own benefit, not for the benefit of the overall Valiant community.
Rereading. Heh.

This statement doesn't make any sense to me. If this isn't the VALIANT community, then please point me to it?!?

It's not collusion. It's informing others so that they can avoid the possibility of spending more now than they more than likely will have to in the future (or even through ebay right now). If informing others within the community isn't the right thing to do (oh yeah, I forgot, this isn't the VALIANT community), then what is?

There is some brow-beating on the boards.

This does not fall into that category.

Comic prices are based on supply and demand. Supply goes up - price will go down.

If someone is keeping it quiet that the supply has gone up so they can sell their items at a higher price then best of luck to him.

But I'm glad somebody is telling me about it so I'm not being RIPPED-OFF.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:12 pm

cobra_commander wrote:
But I'm glad somebody is telling me about it so I'm not being RIPPED-OFF.

Werd.

Although .... ripped off is too strong a term to use here, I agree with the thought behind it.

Thanks chainnball and ckb.

sckao · Post by **sckao** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:35 pm

400yrs wrote:
sckao wrote: By focusing on it in this thread, what you're all doing is colluding to try and force another collector to lower his pricing for your own benefit, not for the benefit of the overall Valiant community.
Rereading. Heh.

This statement doesn't make any sense to me. If this isn't the VALIANT community, then please point me to it?!?

It's not collusion. It's informing others so that they can avoid the possibility of spending more now than they more than likely will have to in the future (or even through ebay right now). If informing others within the community isn't the right thing to do (oh yeah, I forgot, this isn't the VALIANT community), then what is?

It seems to me that just because prices were stratospheric in the 90's... there's a reverse effect going on here. Clearly, there's no reason for Valiant comics to appreciate in price. This seems to be the mindset of many posters here. So what if the buyer was able to buy those at $10 apiece instead of whatever he paid for them?

According to the posters here, he should only be able to sell them for $5-8 dollars.

What if he used Greg's wholesale price (as shown in the inventory which is 50% of guide) to buy them at $11 apiece?

Too bad I guess...

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