Harbinger On Newsarama

Byrneout · Post by **Byrneout** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:32 am

Just in case you missed it, there's a new article up about the Harbinger trade on Newsarama that appeared today:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=115538

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:36 am

Is Brady right about VIP owning the TMs or is he just too lazy to fact check?

myron · Post by **myron** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:37 am

The deluxe hardcover by Valiant Entertainment collects the full Harbinger origin story (Harbinger #0-7) for the first time ever, and includes an all-new “Origin of Harada” story by Jim Shooter that features the first appearance of a new key Valiant character!

was that really said somewhere else???? how'd I miss it...

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:37 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:Is Brady right about VIP owning the TMs or is he just too lazy to fact check?

It says "applied for..."

If you've got $350, you can apply for them too.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:38 am

greg wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Is Brady right about VIP owning the TMs or is he just too lazy to fact check?
It says "applied for..."

If you've got $350, you can apply for them too.

Hah!

That's NOT what it said when I read it earlier. It said that the TMs were OWNED by a third party.

He changed it, someone must have brought it to his attention.

muzzsucker · Post by **muzzsucker** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:16 pm

Byrneout wrote:Just in case you missed it, there's a new article up about the Harbinger trade on Newsarama that appeared today:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=115538

The newsarama discussion about the harbinger hardcover is at 7 pages!

That should show everyone that the Valiant fans are alive and kicking and theres a *SQUEE* load of us. Hopefully this will make it easier for VEI to convince the big retailers to promote the book and get top creators to do new books!

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:40 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
greg wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Is Brady right about VIP owning the TMs or is he just too lazy to fact check?
It says "applied for..."

If you've got $350, you can apply for them too.
Hah!

That's NOT what it said when I read it earlier. It said that the TMs were OWNED by a third party.

He changed it, someone must have brought it to his attention.

Technically, some are merely "applied for" and some are "owned" by VIP...

Next time you should quote the original article.

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:17 pm

Brian Thomer wrote:Technically, some are merely "applied for" and some are "owned" by VIP...

Next time you should quote the original article.

Do share... what does VIP "own"?

(A trademark is not owned until is has been assigned a registration number.
Serial numbers are assigned to applications, Registration numbers are assigned to "owned" trademarks.)

As of today, VIP has zero Trademark Registration numbers.

Unless, you know something the USPTO doesn't.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:19 pm

greg wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:Technically, some are merely "applied for" and some are "owned" by VIP...

Next time you should quote the original article.
Do share... what does VIP "own"?

A large amount of animosity?

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:21 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
greg wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:Technically, some are merely "applied for" and some are "owned" by VIP...

Next time you should quote the original article.
Do share... what does VIP "own"?
A large amount of animosity?

Yep, and I'm looking forward to their first "product" using a Valiant label.
It will be fun for them to out themselves to the wrath they have created.

whovianone · Post by **whovianone** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:39 pm

Beautifully put.

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:54 pm

greg wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:Technically, some are merely "applied for" and some are "owned" by VIP...

Next time you should quote the original article.
Do share... what does VIP "own"?

(A trademark is not owned until is has been assigned a registration number.
Serial numbers are assigned to applications, Registration numbers are assigned to "owned" trademarks.)

As of today, VIP has zero Trademark Registration numbers.

Unless, you know something the USPTO doesn't.

If a trademark is ever truly "owned" it is not only by being registered with USPTO, it's by use in commerce (and enforcement of the mark). Registration doesn't create ownership, it creates the presumption of ownership. So while VIP may not "own" any TMs because they haven't used any yet, the USPTO has given them a Notice of Allowance on a few of their applications that have completed the opposition period. I assumed for our purposes that was enough to establish "ownership".

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:05 pm

Brian Thomer wrote:
greg wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:Technically, some are merely "applied for" and some are "owned" by VIP...

Next time you should quote the original article.
Do share... what does VIP "own"?

(A trademark is not owned until is has been assigned a registration number.
Serial numbers are assigned to applications, Registration numbers are assigned to "owned" trademarks.)

As of today, VIP has zero Trademark Registration numbers.

Unless, you know something the USPTO doesn't.
If a trademark is ever truly "owned" it is not only by being registered with USPTO, it's by use in commerce (and enforcement of the mark). Registration doesn't create ownership, it creates the presumption of ownership. So while VIP may not "own" any TMs because they haven't used any yet, the USPTO has given them a Notice of Allowance on a few of their applications that have completed the opposition period. I assumed for our purposes that was enough to establish "ownership".

Nope.

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:09 pm

I assume your "Nope" is in response to my assumption, because the rest is true. Although you still may be right in that VIP has nothing because it's been over six months since those Notices of Allowance were issued and the USPTO site doesn't show any indication of an extension filed...

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:15 pm

Brian Thomer wrote:I assume your "Nope" is in response to my assumption, because the rest is true. Although you still may be right in that VIP has nothing because it's been over six months since those Notices of Allowance were issued and the USPTO site doesn't show any indication of an extension filed...

Yeah, I was giving you a hard time on that assumption.

"Notice of Allowance" is close, but without completing the process,
there's still not a trademark yet. No trademark, no trademark owner.

Though, we should give VIP some credit...
they managed to get "PUNX" to the point of the Notice of Allowance.

Good job, VIP. Can't wait to see your "Punx" junx!

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:21 pm

greg wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:I assume your "Nope" is in response to my assumption, because the rest is true. Although you still may be right in that VIP has nothing because it's been over six months since those Notices of Allowance were issued and the USPTO site doesn't show any indication of an extension filed...
Yeah, I was giving you a hard time on that assumption.

"Notice of Allowance" is close, but without completing the process,
there's still not a trademark yet. No trademark, no trademark owner.

Right. Until there's "use" there's no trademark and until there's "use" they can't complete registration.

greg wrote:Though, we should give VIP some credit...
they managed to get "PUNX" to the point of the Notice of Allowance.

Good job, VIP. Can't wait to see your "Punx" junx!

Well they got "Dr. Mirage" too, which is a character/series I've seen people ask for (but that one's probably pretty easy to get around).

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:24 pm

So, VIP needs to create a property called "Dr. Mirage"
that legally looks nothing like Dr. Hwen Mirage,
legally has nothing to do with the Mirages of the Valiant era,
legally can't resemble anything that anyone knows as "Dr. Mirage" today.

Wow.

Looks like they got a winner there.

Wonder why they didn't just apply for "Dr. Illusion" and eliminate
the hassle of disappointing anyone who buys whatever fake
"Dr. Mirage" junkola they slap a label on?

Bait and switch. Can't believe it's not the way everyone does business.

(I also can't imagine why they don't want anyone to know who they are...)

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:28 pm

I meant that in terms of what it was taking away from VEI/Valiant fans, not what VIP was gaining from it.

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Brian Thomer wrote:I meant that in terms of what it was taking away from VEI/Valiant fans, not what VIP was gaining from it.

Oh, well in that case, Valiant fans haven't lost anything.

"The Mirages" will work just fine as a title.

...or "The Second Life"...

...or "He's Dead, She's Not"...

...or "See-Through Hero"...

...or "Snow Ski Forever"...

...or "Desperately Seeking New Skin"...

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:32 pm

Which is why I also said it was pretty easy to get around.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:54 pm

greg wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:I meant that in terms of what it was taking away from VEI/Valiant fans, not what VIP was gaining from it.
Oh, well in that case, Valiant fans haven't lost anything.

"The Mirages" will work just fine as a title.

...or "The Second Life"...

...or "He's Dead, She's Not"...

...or "See-Through Hero"...

...or "Snow Ski Forever"...

...or "Desperately Seeking New Skin"...

I vote for "She's Carmen All Over Me."

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:14 pm

Brian Thomer wrote:Well they got "Dr. Mirage" too

Eh, no they don't (thankfully)

They don't have X-O Manowar, Rai, Doctor Mirage, Bloodshot, Quantum & Woody, Ninjak, Eternal Warrior, Shadowman, Harbinger, or VALIANT, DESPITE what Newsarama might claim.

Trademarks now owned by Valiant Intellectual Properties include: Secret Weapons, Outcast, Rai and the Future Force, Deathmate, Quantum and Woody, Harbinger, Punx, Dr. Mirage, Eternal Warrior, Ninjak, Bloodshot, and The Visitor.

The only TMs at risk are Secret Weapons, Outcast, Rai and the Future Force, Deathmate, Punx, and the Visitor.

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:46 pm

First of all, VIP does have "Dr. Mirage" under a Notice of Allowance (that was issued over 6 months ago), what they don't have is "Doctor Mirage". These things are in quotes for a reason.

Second of all, just because VEI lists those TMs doesn't mean they have them (doesn't mean they don't either). They may be claiming ownership, but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll stand up in court yet (in other words, listing them here is probably part of their plan to try to establish ownership).

evil greg · Post by **evil greg** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:41 pm

VIP is so secretive, I've been searching everywhere online to try to figure out
who they are... but so far no luck.

The only thing I've been able to find is a questionable photo.

Does anyone recognize this guy?

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:48 pm

As long as this is the good ol' technicality thread, I was wondering why some of the titles down at the bottom of the add have the "TM" next to it, and some have the "(R)".

What is the difference?

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