Eternal Warrior 5 fan project

[Chiclo]

Is it just me or did the raffle end sooner than next Sunday?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Clearly I don't agree. Standing up for what's right, even in the face of persistent and angry disapproval, is in keeping with the spirit of these books.

Sounds like ManOfTheAtom... you know how that turned out.

MOTA wasn't rational, much of the time. MOTA's ideas and concepts didn't stand up to reason and logic.

I've laid out my position eloquently and logically. The only disagreement is a MORAL one, not a logical one.

Comparing me to MOTA is unfair.

And saying "you know how that turned out" as a passive/aggressive way to suggest I'm going to be suspended is also unfair.

[greg]

What I'm saying is that your opinion on this subject is well known,
but it is also not held by a number of members of this messageboard.

Because the "peace is broken" everytime this subject comes up,
then we will either need to restore peace, or allow the "bad vibes"
to continue forever.

There is little need to "step in" when one person doesn't agree with another.

When one person doesn't agree with MANY, then I need to focus on the effect on the MANY.
Your personal comfort doesn't count nearly as much to me in those cases.

I prefer seeing peace among the half-dozen people you are currently at odds with.

If you drive away even two people, how is that better than letting you go?

Are we not all equal? If not, how many "normal people" do you think you equate to?

What I see on this board at this very moment is ZWH vs. MANY.

Who's more important? ...and why?

These are the questions that I'm facing... the answer isn't going to be comfortable for everyone.

[DawgPhan]

What I'm saying is that your opinion on this subject is well known,
but it is also not held by a number of members of this messageboard.

Because the "peace is broken" everytime this subject comes up,
then we will either need to restore peace, or allow the "bad vibes"
to continue forever.

There is little need to "step in" when one person doesn't agree with another.

When one person doesn't agree with MANY, then I need to focus on the effect on the MANY.
Your personal comfort doesn't count nearly as much to me in those cases.

I prefer seeing peace among the half-dozen people you are currently at odds with.

If you drive away even two people, how is that better than letting you go?

Are we not all equal? If not, how many "normal people" do you think you equate to?

What I see on this board at this very moment is ZWH vs. MANY.

Who's more important? ...and why?

These are the questions that I'm facing... the answer isn't going to be comfortable for everyone.

like the back of a VW bug? plus I dont think that is really the answer to anything expect the question..."Where is the most uncomfortable place to do it?"

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

What I'm saying is that your opinion on this subject is well known,
but it is also not held by a number of members of this messageboard.

Because the "peace is broken" everytime this subject comes up,
then we will either need to restore peace, or allow the "bad vibes"
to continue forever.

There is little need to "step in" when one person doesn't agree with another.

When one person doesn't agree with MANY, then I need to focus on the effect on the MANY.
Your personal comfort doesn't count nearly as much to me in those cases.

I prefer seeing peace among the half-dozen people you are currently at odds with.

If you drive away even two people, how is that better than letting you go?

Are we not all equal? If not, how many "normal people" do you think you equate to?

What I see on this board at this very moment is ZWH vs. MANY.

Who's more important? ...and why?

These are the questions that I'm facing... the answer isn't going to be comfortable for everyone.

1. No, this is not correct. This is NOT a "ZWH vs. Many" situation at all. I'm certainly not the only one who has expressed the opinion I hold on this. I'm just the loudest one, which I freely and willingly admit. It is dishonest to suggest that this is a "ZWH vs. Many" situation.

2. Why are "the many" never held to account for their words? And, let's be real here, there aren't "many"...there's Akuma, OCD, and now CKB. The latter two interjected themselves into the discussion by making disparaging remarks. Why, then, are they not held to account? Does what people say not matter, only "how much" they say it?

3. Why not just ban the public sale of these in the first place? That would CERTAINLY solve the problem quite nicely, with ZERO "bad vibes" on the boards, and it would never be discussed again.

4. Everyone is equally important. Singling out anyone, when many parties are involved, even in your "ZWH vs Many" scenario, which isn't true, isn't fair or equitable.

[whovianone]

OMFG 2 days off the board and what have I missed now again? MORE drama?? Just 2 days??

Yup

[whovianone]

You'd never have the ring you were married with, on that day. That ring may not be "worth much", but it's certainly irreplaceable.

Let's put it in manlier terms.

If Joe Montana gave me his Super Bowl XVI football....gave it to ME, from him....

I'd never sell it.

And money does funny things to people...there are stories all over the news about lottery winners who lost it all, or wish they'd never won it in the first place.

Well, I gotta say that I don't need a piece of metal (wedding ring) or paper (certificate) to tell her I love her. And, she knows that. It would hurt to let it go, but if she didn't have a problem with it I'd take the money and make our lives better. Now, I'd never agree for her to be with another man (or woman for that matter ), and would not sell my little one off, but material possessions are different. But, we're talking about selling a comic for $200 or somesuchthing. I think that's a bit different. If I had a VfVSS book I might make a little on it, but if I wasn't willing to let it go for $10 more than I paid, why would I let something sentimental to many people on this board go for $150 more. I'd rather just make a little and make someone else very happy. So, I suppose I'm in the middle of the argument.

[whovianone]

Is it just me or did the raffle end sooner than next Sunday?

I think yer right.

[Brother J]

Now, I'd never agree for her to be with another man (or woman for that matter )

c'mon, you wouldn't let your wife make out with another hot chick (as long as you could join in)?

[whovianone]

Now, I'd never agree for her to be with another man (or woman for that matter )

c'mon, you wouldn't let your wife make out with another hot chick (as long as you could join in)?

ya know, I might be the ONLY straight guy in the world that doesn't find that interesting

But, then again, I do like watching Footballers Wives on BBC America.

Uuuumm... Honey, we need to talk.

Just kidding.

[X-O HoboJoe]

Now, I'd never agree for her to be with another man (or woman for that matter )

c'mon, you wouldn't let your wife make out with another hot chick (as long as you could join in)?

I'd let your wife make out with a hot chick.

[Brother J]

Now, I'd never agree for her to be with another man (or woman for that matter )

c'mon, you wouldn't let your wife make out with another hot chick (as long as you could join in)?

I'd let your wife make out with a hot chick.

That's mighty neighborly of ya!

[X-O HoboJoe]

Now, I'd never agree for her to be with another man (or woman for that matter )

c'mon, you wouldn't let your wife make out with another hot chick (as long as you could join in)?

I'd let your wife make out with a hot chick.

That's mighty neighborly of ya!

Well, since I'm your neighbor, can I watch?

[Brother J]

Now, I'd never agree for her to be with another man (or woman for that matter )

c'mon, you wouldn't let your wife make out with another hot chick (as long as you could join in)?

I'd let your wife make out with a hot chick.

That's mighty neighborly of ya!

Well, since I'm your neighbor, can I watch?

Ceiling Cat is already watching... watching me masturbate!

[Daniel Jackson]

Now, I'd never agree for her to be with another man (or woman for that matter )

c'mon, you wouldn't let your wife make out with another hot chick (as long as you could join in)?

I'd let your wife make out with a hot chick.

That's mighty neighborly of ya!

Well, since I'm your neighbor, can I watch?

Ceiling Cat is already watching... watching me masturbate!

[GJB]

At this point I'm not sure what actions (if any) may be taken as a result
of the latest "rise in bad vibes" around here... but just to throw a comment
in on the current discussion... in the past 10 years, my wife has purchased
three different wedding rings for me... and she considers each a "step up"
in the appearance she wants to see on my finger.

As a result, I'd gladly sell any of the three wedding rings for $1Million,
and my wife suggested that we could even bargain down to $500K each, or all three for $1Million.

After the sale, she plans to purchase a "fourth" wedding ring for me,
and find something constructive to do with the leftover cash.

You'd never have the ring you were married with, on that day. That ring may not be "worth much", but it's certainly irreplaceable.

Let's put it in manlier terms.

If Joe Montana gave me his Super Bowl XVI football....gave it to ME, from him....

I'd never sell it.

And money does funny things to people...there are stories all over the news about lottery winners who lost it all, or wish they'd never won it in the first place.

I like how you put it in manlier terms with the Joe Montana football example. You weren't getting much tred with the wedding ring example with us guys. Ring or football, I see where you're coming from.

[greg]

What I'm saying is that your opinion on this subject is well known,
but it is also not held by a number of members of this messageboard.

Because the "peace is broken" everytime this subject comes up,
then we will either need to restore peace, or allow the "bad vibes"
to continue forever.

There is little need to "step in" when one person doesn't agree with another.

When one person doesn't agree with MANY, then I need to focus on the effect on the MANY.
Your personal comfort doesn't count nearly as much to me in those cases.

I prefer seeing peace among the half-dozen people you are currently at odds with.

If you drive away even two people, how is that better than letting you go?

Are we not all equal? If not, how many "normal people" do you think you equate to?

What I see on this board at this very moment is ZWH vs. MANY.

Who's more important? ...and why?

These are the questions that I'm facing... the answer isn't going to be comfortable for everyone.

1. No, this is not correct. This is NOT a "ZWH vs. Many" situation at all. I'm certainly not the only one who has expressed the opinion I hold on this. I'm just the loudest one, which I freely and willingly admit. It is dishonest to suggest that this is a "ZWH vs. Many" situation.

2. Why are "the many" never held to account for their words? And, let's be real here, there aren't "many"...there's Akuma, OCD, and now CKB. The latter two interjected themselves into the discussion by making disparaging remarks. Why, then, are they not held to account? Does what people say not matter, only "how much" they say it?

3. Why not just ban the public sale of these in the first place? That would CERTAINLY solve the problem quite nicely, with ZERO "bad vibes" on the boards, and it would never be discussed again.

4. Everyone is equally important. Singling out anyone, when many parties are involved, even in your "ZWH vs Many" scenario, which isn't true, isn't fair or equitable.

The fact is, I'm reading several threads on this messageboard and anytime
I've seen a "confrontation" today of any sort, YOU are part of it.

Should I assume that you are simply making the world a better place,
or just continuing to impose your will on others?

As much as you'd like to believe it's the former, all signs point to the latter.

At any rate, your main "beef" seems to be with the sale of the Valiant fan projects.

As CREATOR of the Eternal Warrior #5 project, I can safely say that I NEVER
made it a condition of ownership that the books could not be sold.
If someone doesn't want it... get rid of it!
If someone wants to pay you for it... sell it!
If two people want it, then take the better offer.

What's the point of treating these THINGS as if they are anything but THINGS?

I don't believe in "holy relics" of any kind, so I certainly had no part in creating some.

Your sense of "moral fortitude" with regard to fan projects is delusional at best.

You're sure that other people agree with you? Great!
I don't see them causing problems...
why don't you join your likeminded peers
in the world of the peaceful?

Again, I ask... if you are responsible for driving two members of this site away, why should I allow it?
After all, it is very easy to keep those two and lose just one.

If all three can't remain, I'll make the logical choice... and I'll be right, regardless of whether you agree.

It's what I do.

[DawgPhan]

I was surprised to find out that my wife said that she wouldnt sell her ring for a million right now...she said that if we really needed it she would...hmmm..

[ckb]

I was surprised to find out that my wife said that she wouldnt sell her ring for a million right now...she said that if we really needed it she would...hmmm..

Do you have kids? When/if you do, I'd ask her opinion of that rhetorical question again.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

The fact is, I'm reading several threads on this messageboard and anytime
I've seen a "confrontation" today of any sort, YOU are part of it.

What does that prove?

They're all part of the same issue.

You act as if there are several DIFFERENT confrontations going on about several DIFFERENT subjects. There are not. There's just one.

Should I assume that you are simply making the world a better place,
or just continuing to impose your will on others?

What is wrong with you that you think anyone can IMPOSE their will on anyone else around here?

ONLY YOU can impose your will on anyone around here.

ONLY YOU.

EVERYONE else has the same equal ability to say what they have to say.

I can no more IMPOSE my will on anyone here than I can levitate the Statue of Liberty, because ALL of us...except YOU....have the same EQUAL access and EQUAL ability to post, with no one having any other "special powers" to impose ANY will on ANYone.

As much as you'd like to believe it's the former, all signs point to the latter.

And how does that explain your treatment of MOTA, where you did the EXACT SAME THING?

At any rate, your main "beef" seems to be with the sale of the VALIANT fan projects.

As CREATOR of the Eternal Warrior #5 project, I can safely say that I NEVER
made it a condition of ownership that the books could not be sold.
If someone doesn't want it... get rid of it!
If someone wants to pay you for it... sell it!
If two people want it, then take the better offer.

What's the point of treating these THINGS as if they are anything but THINGS?

I don't believe in "holy relics" of any kind, so I certainly had no part in creating some.

Your sense of "moral fortitude" with regard to fan projects is delusional at best.

It's not "delusional" to believe that things have more importance than just as "things."

That's why we HAVE symbols in the first place.

You know what the US Declaration of Idependence was before the weight of history was added to it? Just a piece of paper with a lot of ink on it.

What are these? Just a bunch of paper with some ink on them.

So if you wish to call me delusional, that's certainly your right, but again....it's certainly not reasonable, nor is it fair.

You're sure that other people agree with you?

I don't need to be sure. They've already posted. Rubiks. Jedi. DJ. Cinlach.

Great!
I don't see them causing problems...

But you DO see Akuma, CKB, OCD, and now mavros causing problems, too. Did OCD need to jump into the argument? No.

Did you say anything to him? Not that I've seen so far.

Did CKB need to jump into the argument? No.

Did you say anything to HIM? Not that I've seen so far.

Did mavros need to jump into the argument? Nope.

Did you say anything to HIM? Not that I've seen so far.

But you've said SEVERAL things to ME, including threatening to remove me from this board, because you DON'T AGREE WITH ME, and you AGREE with THEM. Why not say "EVERYONE involved in this discussion is guilty of "causing problems" and is at risk of being booted"? Because you AGREE with them. You don't AGREE with me.

How is that reasonable? How is that fair? How is that right?

The message you're sending is clear: if GREG agrees with you, you're not causing problems. If GREG doesn't, you are, and ALL OTHER facts don't matter. And everyone's seen it before. You did it to MOTA. You sat there and argued with him, contributing to a "confrontation", and then suspended him. Regardless of how irrational he was, YOU took part in a confrontation, and ALLOWED it to continue. You even allowed Knightt to bash him, but did nothing.

You can boot me, you can erase my words, but you cannot escape that fact.

why don't you join your likeminded peers
in the world of the peaceful?

I already have, and continue to. Check out my posts.

Again, I ask... if you are responsible for driving two members of this site away, why should I allow it?

Which two members would those be? And what if removing ME causes three OTHER members to be driven away?

And, why is it impossible for them to not de so melodramatic about it?

Why is it simply impossible for them to ignore me?

Like I said....THREE threads is a tiny minority of alllll the threads on this site.

You should understand that, being the statistician you are.

After all, it is very easy to keep those two and lose just one.

Why not, instead of those two being melodramatic, you encourage them to USE the function YOU installed?

But the reality, as you well know, is that not everyone here is equal. Hobo, Depluto, Dawg, Daniel Jackson...all more valuable HERE than Mavros, IITravel, Dr. Solar.

Why?

Because they've paid their dues, they've contributed to making this a better place.

Does that mean they CAN'T be become valuable members of this board? Of course not. But that's the future. Not now.

If all three can't remain, I'll make the logical choice... and I'll be right, regardless of whether you agree.

No, you won't....you'll just have exercised power. And that's a whole other type of "right." You won't have resolved anything, you'll just have swept the issue under the rug. If you want to get rid of me, you can, EASILY. But that won't solve the problem. It'll just make it go away for a little while (and I'm not talking about ME. Someone else will come along and have the same issues. We ALL got along at one point.)

Why don't you tell those two to ignore me? Is that so hard to do?

Apparently.

It's what I do.

[greg]

Congratulations! You have changed my mind about many things...
particularly, the strict "code of conduct" set in place as "rules for the site".

As a result of this mind-changing event (or should I say, "adventure"),
I have instituted the following:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... 757#286757

In summary, all previous rules are now null and void.

There are now only two rules.

Rule #1: Don't make me come over there.
Rule #2: See rule #1.



Whether I agree with you or disagree with you, know this...
If I determine that YOU are the cause of people leaving this site,
YOU will be eliminated. Whether your name is "ManOfTheAtom",
"Vault-Keeper", "Peter Parker", "Justin", or "ZephyrWasHot!!".

Consider it the true "Hall Of Shame".

When I have determined that the board is better off without someone, it will be so.

Behave in a manner that makes the board better WITH YOU, and you stay.

It's always been the sentiment, make it a reality.

[Brother J]

I was surprised to find out that my wife said that she wouldnt sell her ring for a million right now...she said that if we really needed it she would...hmmm..

my wife said the same thing, she wouldn't sell! I guess ZWH was right on this one. Bah, I'd still sell mine, except for the fact my wife would probably kick my butt then.

[Brother J]

my take on this situation (probably should mind my own business like I have been, but here goes):

Akuma wanted to sell his book, ZWH doesn't approve, so he let his feelings be known. Then he and Akuma have a back and forth, which is reasonable since they disagreed. It seems to me that others then decided to pile on ZWH, so he got involved with back and forths with THEM. I don't think ZWH can really be blamed for defending himself. There are a lot of us here that do agree with ZWH's position that it's really not a great thing to be profiteering off a fan project that was done for cost by other members, I think most of the rest of us are probably just resigned to the fact that it's going to happen, anyway. It's a losing battle, so I'm not going to belabor the point. I think ZWH thinks it's a battle worth fighting, and tries to do so when it comes up.

I will say this, I would certainly hate to see anyone booted over this nonsense.

This post will probably get me labeled as part of "ZWH's posse" or some other stupid *SQUEE*, but I don't care, it's just the situation as I see it. ZWH and I haven't always agreed, and at one point he even had me on ignore, so it's not like we're always in lock step with each other's position.

Anyway, I'm with Greg in that if anyone wants to sell my crappy Bloodshot #7 VcVSS, go right ahead. I will say you're probably not going to make a killing with my book, but good luck if you try.

[tssgery]

If someone doesn't want it... get rid of it!
If someone wants to pay you for it... sell it!
If two people want it, then take the better offer.

What's the point of treating these THINGS as if they are anything but THINGS?

I normally stay out of these threads, but I really like what Greg said here. I feel we put to many restrictions on who can get on of these THINGS (number of posts, tenure on the board, creation of a past project/website) and on what to do with them. It seems to me, and I've never created one myself, that there are restrictions on who can get them then it effectively ensure it's people who will value it.

If that person later decides to sell, it... it's fine with me. After all, it's just a THING.

Just my 2 cents.

[cobra_commander]

They are what they are... and if the "spirit of community" is the driving force behind their meaning,
then I find a great lack of this spirit in most of the posts on the subject
that have occurred since.