New Mutants... X-Force....Rob Liefield

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:22 am

Chuck wrote:Rob has been known to swipe layout panels from perviously published comics without giving any credit to the original artist. PETER DAVID did a great article about it back in the early 90's in Comic Buyers Guide (a real comic news magazine, not like that WIZARD CRAP).

For example, PETER found a panel from the FF (by Byrne) with the Human Torch flying and in NEW MUTANTS you see the EXACT panel layout (like he traced it) with Sunfire flying. There were a lot more 'swipes' Peter found. Seems to me Rob was stealing other people's work (it's not really a tribute if you don't cite the original work)

I remember those columns, they were remarkable. And readers started sending in other panels Rob did that were almost exactly the same as other published work. It was damning stuff. That went on for several months.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:27 am

Show me examples. Or can someone scan those pages in and print them here? It would make for an interesting read.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:52 am

depluto wrote:
Chuck wrote:Rob has been known to swipe layout panels from perviously published comics without giving any credit to the original artist. PETER DAVID did a great article about it back in the early 90's in Comic Buyers Guide (a real comic news magazine, not like that WIZARD CRAP).

For example, PETER found a panel from the FF (by Byrne) with the Human Torch flying and in NEW MUTANTS you see the EXACT panel layout (like he traced it) with Sunfire flying. There were a lot more 'swipes' Peter found. Seems to me Rob was stealing other people's work (it's not really a tribute if you don't cite the original work)
I remember those columns, they were remarkable. And readers started sending in other panels Rob did that were almost exactly the same as other published work. It was damning stuff. That went on for several months.

I used to subscribe to that and Peter Davids "But I Digress..." was always a great read. After the marvel/image split there were some disparaging comments by The Rob about a writers value to a book, originality, etc, and Peter David, in his own humble way just let him have it good. They were in newspaper form and I wish I had saved them now.

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:11 pm

wrunow wrote:
depluto wrote:
Chuck wrote:Rob has been known to swipe layout panels from perviously published comics without giving any credit to the original artist. PETER DAVID did a great article about it back in the early 90's in Comic Buyers Guide (a real comic news magazine, not like that WIZARD CRAP).

For example, PETER found a panel from the FF (by Byrne) with the Human Torch flying and in NEW MUTANTS you see the EXACT panel layout (like he traced it) with Sunfire flying. There were a lot more 'swipes' Peter found. Seems to me Rob was stealing other people's work (it's not really a tribute if you don't cite the original work)
I remember those columns, they were remarkable. And readers started sending in other panels Rob did that were almost exactly the same as other published work. It was damning stuff. That went on for several months.
I used to subscribe to that and Peter Davids "But I Digress..." was always a great read. After the marvel/image split there were some disparaging comments by The Rob about a writers value to a book, originality, etc, and Peter David, in his own humble way just let him have it good. They were in newspaper form and I wish I had saved them now.

same here...I had them for years (kept them in my classroom for silent reading time)...but the last time I moved districts, I ditched them. I had them from about '92-'95, and they were taking up waaaayyyy too much space...

great reads, and great place to buy back issues...from the want adds in the back

dave · Post by **dave** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:37 pm

it seems that ole fabe has gotten over his severe dislike for rob...when i went to a signing one time-all he was doing was going on and on about how terrible his artwork was and all that (just like we are) but now he's proud to have his name right by his on the front cover.

now that takes character.

myron · Post by **myron** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:41 am

after his work in the valiant universe how could we have much respect for fabe anyway??? (put whetton's puking emoticon here...) :littlesmile:

Will · Post by **Will** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:52 am

uh...uh...not...Fabian's...fault...

(must...stay...silent...)

myron · Post by **myron** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:14 am

Will wrote:uh...uh...not...Fabian's...fault...

(must...stay...silent...)

why?...enlighten me...inquiring minds want to know...

sd2416 · Post by **sd2416** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:16 pm

did anyone find examples of Rob's "artistic tributes"?

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:43 pm

why?...enlighten me...inquiring minds want to know...

I just think Fabian was paid good money to take a long walk off a short cliff.

Back in the day, he was writing something like seven monthly issues. Do you remember New Warriors #1-25 (heck, I'd even give him #1-50)? They were just incredible. He was also doing Nomad, X-Force, Nova, Night Thrasher, and two or three others that escape me now. IMHO (and in many others' HO) he was the writer of the day.

Then, Acclaim comes along and says, "Hey, you're the Writer Of The Day. How would you like to be an Editor in Cheif?" And (like any of us), he said, "Sure!"

So he did. And, just like Bob Layton, he was slammed with 1,000,004 rules and regulations dreamed up by administrators who had no idea how the comic book industry worked.

Were the Turok comics well written? You bet they were. An arrogant youth is suddenly handed a magic satchel and told to save the world from intellingent dinosaurs? He even worked Tal'Set (the VH1 Turok) into the story. Really solid writing.

And the 12 issues of Ninjak by Kurt Busiek? They were experimental as far as comics go, but again they were just a solid read that had some hysterical lines.

Quantum and Woody (as always) speaks for itself.

A lot of us like to throw Fabian into the pit of "Creators who took the good ol' days of Valiant away from us," but he just doesn't deserve to be there. Those days were long dead when they offered him the job. He did what he could with a mess (a BIG mess), and under the restraints of a stupid administration (I can't stress just how idiotic Acclaim managment was).

Some good storytelling came out of it. Did you notice how he steered them away from another Birthquake? Acclaim wanted another Image, but Fabian talked them into using their money to grab the best WRITERS of the day, Busiek, Waid, Ennis, and himself.

Of course, it still didn't work and here we are, reminiscing about a once great set of characters. I'm just saying we tend to blame the wrong people.

myron · Post by **myron** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:27 pm

thanks for the info...

jcdenton · Post by **jcdenton** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:38 pm

whetteon wrote:Show me examples. Or can someone scan those pages in and print them here? It would make for an interesting read.

We also have the legendary "4-dimensional Captain America. The first ever artwork which is simultaneously drawn from a side-profile view and a 3/4 perspective:

Here's the top-down view:

And another 4-dimensional object: this time Cable's gun, which is simultaneously both oval and cylindrical. Straight out of an M.C. Escher book.

dino · Post by **dino** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:50 pm

Thats great! is there more?

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:54 pm

Damn, he was a tracer!

jcdenton · Post by **jcdenton** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:59 pm

Several more examples of plagiarism here: http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/tr ... ativas.htm

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:13 am

Good stuff JC!

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:54 am

***UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE***

So I'm moving my comics boxes, right?

And I found...no foolin....my ORIGINAL 'bought in 1990 when new' 15 copies of NM #98! COOL, huh?

All pretty spanky minty, too.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:31 am

jcdenton wrote:Several more examples of plagiarism here: http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/tr ... ativas.htm

The funny thing is that a lot of the images on that page he's accused of "copying" have the characters in completely different positions in the Liefield images.

jcdenton · Post by **jcdenton** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:00 am

The funny thing is that a lot of the images on that page he's accused of "copying" have the characters in completely different positions in the Liefield images.

A "lot"?

Of all the images on the page, I can understand how you could say that about the one in row 1. If you were to modify your statement to "somewhat different positions", that could arguably describe row 3 column 1.

But I'm having a very hard time finding "a lot" of images on that page in which the characters are in "completely different positions".

djm928 · Post by **djm928** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:39 am

Damn!!! I was using those books as packaging materials for years. Especially with how moronic deadpool was when he got his own series following new mutants/ x-force.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:01 am

jcdenton wrote:
The funny thing is that a lot of the images on that page he's accused of "copying" have the characters in completely different positions in the Liefield images.
A "lot"? Of all the images on the page, I can understand how you could say that about the one in row 1. If you were to modify your statement to "somewhat different positions", that could arguably describe row 3 column 1.

But I'm having a very hard time finding "a lot" of images on that page in which the characters are in "completely different positions".

Then I'll modify it to some in completely different positions, some with slightly different positions, and some that are exact swips

.

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:18 am

jcdenton great post, I had forgotton about this thread

That is why his name is Rob; he ROBs other people's work.

What an A.S.S. :x

Ricomortis · Post by **Ricomortis** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:59 am

Hey...I got a dumb question.

On X-force #1...is there any difference price wise for the ones that have the negative UPC of I think its Captain America(can't remember who it is) instead of the regular?

Curious George wants to know...

TIA

Rico

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:35 pm

Ricomortis wrote:Hey...I got a dumb question.

On X-force #1...is there any difference price wise for the ones that have the negative UPC of I think its Captain America(can't remember who it is) instead of the regular?

Curious George wants to know...

TIA

Rico

Nope, all the print runs are too high.

Mozz · Post by **Mozz** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:09 am

I read the recent X-Force series, in hoping that Fabe would save it from being totally worthless... unfortunately, Liefeld's plots are so horrible that I don't think any writer could save it... I find it interesting that there was an X-Force series, by Fabe and Rob, and the Cable/Deadpool series by Fabe and Pat Zircher (sp?) and C/D is a million times better than X-Farce. Fabe knows how to write the characters, he makes them entertaining. Liefeld's plot... well... yeah, you see my point.

And Rob's art... ok, I'm not exactly an amazing artist, but at least I have a sense of how the body should appear. Tiny heads, huge chests, tiny feet? I broke out laughing when I saw that "4D Captain America".