New Mutants... X-Force....Rob Liefield

Escaflown4 · Post by **Escaflown4** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:34 pm

Has anyone been following up with these series lately? I did a search on ebay and noticed that New Mutants #98 is outselling #87 on more then a few occasions. I know it's partly due to the movie hype, but it's still hard to see Deadpool being more popular then Cable. Also I noticed people been paying about $5 + shipping on the new X-Force #1. This is not one single idiot doing this, but on 5 and more separate auctions. Is this book getting hot? As far as I know, Liefeld has always been despised ever since he moved over to do Youngblood.

Byrneout · Post by **Byrneout** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:20 pm

Well, I for one despised Liefeld even BEFORE he moved. Crappiest artist on the face of the planet, IMHO.

And yes, a million Marvel zombies all think that this is the best book over...

*sigh*

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:54 pm

Leifield was a founding member of Image, but even those guys could only take so much and threw him out, something over trying to steal artists from the other's studios.

Late issue New Mutants and early X Force being hot would be like Christmas for collectors from the early 90's

Escaflown4 · Post by **Escaflown4** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:14 pm

wrunow wrote:Leifield was a founding member of Image, but even those guys could only take so much and threw him out, something over trying to steal artists from the other's studios.

Late issue New Mutants and early X Force being hot would be like Christmas for collectors from the early 90's

I'm more surprised at why people are paying $5 + shipping on X-Force #1 that was released last month. We all know the original X-Force #1 would never be worth anything with 7+ million copies out there.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:22 pm

I think Marvel started the "get it now and pay whatever for it" charge when they underprinted the early Ultimate books on purpose, now no one wants to miss out on what might be the next big title or book, very similar to 1991/92, but the print runs are pretty large again so the book prices will drop like a rock in 6 months.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:17 pm

wrunow wrote:Leifield was a founding member of Image, but even those guys could only take so much and threw him out, something over trying to steal artists from the other's studios.

Late issue New Mutants and early X Force being hot would be like Christmas for collectors from the early 90's

<rubs hands in glee over 100+ copies of X-Force #1>

Oh my goodness, I'd be rich. I have prolly 40-50 copies EACH of EVERY Liefeld New Mutie....cept #87, prolly only about 10.

Wow.

And Deadpool is a GREAT character, who was done well by what's his bucket.

Escaflown4 · Post by **Escaflown4** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:04 pm

Heh the latest Wizard has New Mutants #98 shooting up to a whopping $15. Since I have a few copies of this, wonder if it's time to cash out.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:21 am

This has to be some kind of bad dream.

Are y'all making this up?

I took a look at the new X-Force stuff, and it's the same old ugly Liefeld crap. People like this?

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:34 am

I would rather drag my naked *SQUEE* across dirty, broken glass than read more Liefeld X-Crap.

GJB · Post by **GJB** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:06 am

depluto wrote:I would rather drag my naked *SQUEE* across dirty, broken glass than read more Liefeld X-Crap.

LOL, I like the inclusion of dirt.

Agreed Knightt, proportionality is not one of RL's strong points, not a good writer either.

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:20 am

Hey check out the banter between Shatterstar and some new bad guy while Shatty's friend is being killed (just awful stuff).

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook ... age20.html

You can actually read the entire first issue (starting from the cover) if you dare:
http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook ... rpage.html

Shakespeare · Post by **Shakespeare** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:25 am

Hey check out the banter between Shatterstar and some new bad guy while Shatty's friend is being killed

Whoa, is it 1992? Some artists evolve...not Liefeld.

I'll chime in a bit, though.

Liefeld is not the worst artist. The people he trained are.

Liefeld doesn't draw anatomy correctly. Neither did Picasso. The difference being, of course, that Picasso proved himself as an artist first and then found his style.

You cannot complain about Liefeld without complaining about McFarlane, or Mignola, or Sienkzaeieidkkkzzzz, or Sears. Look at Sear's chins, each the size of a pick-up truck. Each of them has their failings, and sometimes the failings are hidden behind "style." Do you think Mignola could draw a properly proportioned figure if he tried?) (I mean, look at the perspective on Hellboy...makes his hand look all huge

)

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:49 am

yeah but when you look throught the first book it is sad to look at some the art in that book...Hell look at the cover

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook ... rpage.html

what happened to cable's forearm? where is it? There is a panel where 2 people are walking down a ramp/stairs It is a ramp and one point and stairs at another...just no prespective at all. The feet on all the characters are all horrible. They all have the little spade shaped feet...a guy with forearms the size of your waist has calves the size of an anorexic model...c'mon...

Shakespeare · Post by **Shakespeare** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:20 pm

Chances are he notices and says "screw it." After all, it's not like he couldn't have taken the last 12 years to get his feet looking better, but he still keeps getting work, so why should he improve?

S

justin · Post by **justin** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:32 pm

Shakespeare wrote:...last 12 years to get his feet looking better...

LMAO, I love the first issue of Youngblood where everyone is standing in tufts of grass. You gotta love it. I am happy I am not the only who noticed he can't draw feet for anything!

-A

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:35 pm

You cannot complain about Liefeld without complaining about McFarlane, or Mignola, or Sienkzaeieidkkkzzzz, or Sears. Look at Sear's chins, each the size of a pick-up truck. Each of them has their failings, and sometimes the failings are hidden behind "style." Do you think Mignola could draw a properly proportioned figure if he tried?) (I mean, look at the perspective on Hellboy...makes his hand look all huge )

You're not really putting Bill Sienkiewicz in the same class as these other guys, are you??? Sienkiewicz can flat out draw, check out any of his early work, check out his Moon Knight issues in particular. His early work was very similar to Neal Adams. He later went to his more stylized work, but I'm sure the guy didn't forget how to draw. Maybe if you were more familiar with his work, you wouldn't have such a hard time spelling his name.

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:14 pm

But Neal Adams now... OMG, the DEFINATIVE Batman artist... IMO.

Oh yeah, I agree 100% with you, I don't know if anyone can touch Neal Adams in his prime for superheroes. His Batman and the Green Lantern/Green Arrow stuff are far and above just about anything out there. I think with the comparison I was kind of pointing out that even to come close to imitating Adams' work takes a real good artist in his own right. I think Sienkiewicz realized that his straight ahead work was always going to be seen as an Adams copy, so that might be why he went for the more stylized look. Here's a favorite cover of mine:

Let's see Rob Liefeld draw something like that! :x

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:07 pm

Brother J wrote:Let's see Rob Liefeld draw something like that! :x

No feet, no problem!

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:01 am

holy crap, what the heck is wrong with the horse on page three? It looks like it must be retaining water or something...

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook ... age03.html

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:42 am

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook ... age04.html

look at this page...are they coming down a ramp or some stairs...how much bigger is the guy than the girl? In the first panel a little bigger...panel 2 he is more than twice her size and in the last panel they are nearly the same size...unless she is standing on a box or something...

myron · Post by **myron** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:37 am

the guy must have his own perspective...now, was he blatantly ripping off his own work on youngblood for this new x-force or what...I wonder if he had all of this work drawn 12 years ago and is pulling out cause he needs some cash...

Shakespeare · Post by **Shakespeare** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:53 am

You're not really putting Bill Sienkiewicz in the same class as these other guys, are you???

I like Sienkdkfiekslz, but only as a cover artist (whoever decided to have him do the covers of New Mutants was a mad genius). But the cover you posted...the arms are all wrong. People don't bulge like that between the shoulder socket and the bi-cep...and what's that on his left tri-cep, and triangle?

My point is that, whenever an artist becomes popular (whether he was good or bad to begin with) and he get's to do what he wants, then there is always some artistic fingerprint which can be complained about...McFarlane's long faces, Sear's chins, Mignola's mignola. After all, isn't that what was so great about Valiant, that the characters looked real enough as to convince you that they were living in a real world and that the art didn't distract? Sears should never have been hired.

Liefeld was (and is) popular for a reason...there's a certain dynamic to his work...but his negatives detract so much that I'm no longer interested. If only he'd spent some time honing his anatomy/perspective skills in the last decade.

Byrneout · Post by **Byrneout** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:56 pm

myron wrote:now, was he blatantly ripping off his own work on youngblood for this new x-force or what...I wonder if he had all of this work drawn 12 years ago and is pulling out cause he needs some cash...

Actually, a funny story...

"Youngblood" isn't as original as everyone thinks. See, oungblood was Rob Liefeld's pitch to DC for re-doing the Teen Titans. Shaft was supposed to be Speedy/Arsenal, and so on.

So, he's ripping off his ripoff of Teen Titans.

I mean, that's almost as convoluted as trying to map out the Summer's Family Tree...

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:09 pm

Byrneout wrote:
myron wrote:now, was he blatantly ripping off his own work on youngblood for this new x-force or what...I wonder if he had all of this work drawn 12 years ago and is pulling out cause he needs some cash...
Actually, a funny story...

"Youngblood" isn't as original as everyone thinks. See, oungblood was Rob Liefeld's pitch to DC for re-doing the Teen Titans. Shaft was supposed to be Speedy/Arsenal, and so on.

So, he's ripping off his ripoff of Teen Titans.

I mean, that's almost as convoluted as trying to map out the Summer's Family Tree...

Actually, to be more specific, the "Home Team" (that's Shaft, Diehard, Badrock, Vogue, Chapel) is the one that's supposed to be Liefeld's proposal for "Team Titans" (which was launched by DC sans Liefeld), while there was a back-up story featuring the "Away Team" (Sentinel, Bhrama, Riptide and others) which was the original Youngblood that Liefeld had planned to produce back in the 80's (Really! There was a mention in AMAZING HEROES' upcoming list, and a poster inside an issue of MEGATON).

So it's more of a mesh of two proposals.

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:00 am

Rob has been known to swipe layout panels from perviously published comics without giving any credit to the original artist. PETER DAVID did a great article about it back in the early 90's in Comic Buyers Guide (a real comic news magazine, not like that WIZARD CRAP).

For example, PETER found a panel from the FF (by Byrne) with the Human Torch flying and in NEW MUTANTS you see the EXACT panel layout (like he traced it) with Sunfire flying. There were a lot more 'swipes' Peter found. Seems to me Rob was stealing other people's work (it's not really a tribute if you don't cite the original work)