PECKING.....An ebay art form?

[iccarus]

I don't think I've every won an auction with a reserve on it either. Granted, I probably could have sent a message to the seller and asked what the reserve was, but most times I've done that the response has been along the lines of "I'm not telling."

On the rare occasion I've set a reserve, I can't think of a time I didn't tell somebody what it was if they asked. I have no problems with people who set a reserve...unless it's just insanely high and there's only the slimmest chance somebody will actually hit it.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Just to clarify: there's nothing wrong with reserves.

As I've said on these boards many, many, many times, reserves are an important part of any auction when a seller wants to get eyeballs on his auctions, without having to give the item away on the off-chance that people are just too busy to bid.

Starting off at the "reserve price" virtually guarantees that no one will look. And that's not good.

The problem is with the "secret" reserve.

eBay isn't supposed to be a game, but a lot of people treat it like one. Thrill bidders, people who place bids with no intention whatsoever of buying, may simulate interest....but there's not really interest there, and the jury's out on whether it inspires others to bid in a reserve situation.

It's almost as bad as the morons who say things like "bidding starts at ONLY $1!" and then have a reserve of $100.

Who CARES if bidding starts at $1 if you have no CHANCE of winning at $1? At that point, it's merely an exercise in HTML function!

And nothing could be more lame.

[D-Lite]

Another way to look at reserves from a seller standpoint is what is the market value currently. Say as the seller you have $200 invested in an item and make that your reserve but start the auction at $9.99. But in the end it only reaches $135, not meeting your reserve. Now you know, OK, the value may have dropped for this but at least I didn't give it up for less than I wanted. You didn't lose $65 off your investment if you weren't sure you'd sell it.

There are plenty of good reasons to have a reserve price on an auction. "Secret reserve" is a funny term because it is a "secret" unless either someone asks or you put it directly in the auction. I do either of those myself because there really isn't anything to lose.

[Chiclo]

Here's one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

I was watching it and yesterday it was at $16. Today, I look and it's at $76 with 14 bids, and half of those are from a floojigity pecker. And there's still 4 days left on the auction!

[slym2none]

I think that's a DeathMate sticking up in that one box...





-slym

[greg]

... When I see a reserve, I click "back" as fast as I can.

Same here.

Agreed... and to take the thought process a little further...

When I see a reserve auction... I immediately assume...

It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a good deal in a reserve auction,
because good deals are always below the reserve price.

Whatever the seller really wants for the item is that reserve price...
and the seller has ensured they will not take less than that amount.

Futhermore, the seller is willing to PAY eBay extra fees
in order to guarantee that he doesn't sell below that reserve.

So this is not a seller who is "taking a chance" where I might get a good deal,
this is a seller paying EXTRA to MAKE SURE that I don't get a good deal.

"Reserve has been met"? That just means someone's paying too much.
It's like offering a used car salesman MORE than his sticker price.

"Reserve hasn't been met"? That means that no good deal is possible.
The seller has paid EXTRA to ensure you don't get a good deal.

Either way... No thanks.

[siren3-4]

It's a rough position to be in as a seller.

I try now to just start of at a price I can live with, go high on the things I don't really want to sell but will for the right amount, and start things I don't care about at $0.99

I do get less hits and less interest in a lot of the auctions but I personally hate seeing "reserve" when I am shopping around so I don't use it.

I would only use a reserve to test the waters on an item I really don't want to sell but want to get an idea of the going price.

[greg]

I would only use a reserve to test the waters on an item I really don't want to sell but want to get an idea of the going price.

Does that really work? Most reserve auctions I've seen end far below
the "no reserve" averages that are known for the same item.

I understand if it's a item that is rarely seen on eBay, but given what we know
about "testing the waters" with more common items, it seems that the reserve not met amount
doesn't mean anything... except maybe a "worst case" scenario.

[siren3-4]

I would only use a reserve to test the waters on an item I really don't want to sell but want to get an idea of the going price.

Does that really work? Most reserve auctions I've seen end far below
the "no reserve" averages that are known for the same item.

I understand if it's a item that is rarely seen on eBay, but given what we know
about "testing the waters" with more common items, it seems that the reserve not met amount
doesn't mean anything... except maybe a "worst case" scenario.

Right . . . "worst case" because you are thinning the heard by putting a reserve in the first place. Many potential bidders are turned off and you lose the chance 2 people will get into a bidding war. (every sellers wet dream)

But every now and then you get a nice little suprise and a reserve you would never expect to be met is surpassed. That why I would limit it to items you really don't want to sell and don't have an already established ebay record of sales to go by.

[D-Lite]

... When I see a reserve, I click "back" as fast as I can.

Same here.

Agreed... and to take the thought process a little further...

When I see a reserve auction... I immediately assume...

It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a good deal in a reserve auction,
because good deals are always below the reserve price.

Whatever the seller really wants for the item is that reserve price...
and the seller has ensured they will not take less than that amount.

Futhermore, the seller is willing to PAY eBay extra fees
in order to guarantee that he doesn't sell below that reserve.

So this is not a seller who is "taking a chance" where I might get a good deal,
this is a seller paying EXTRA to MAKE SURE that I don't get a good deal.

"Reserve has been met"? That just means someone's paying too much.
It's like offering a used car salesman MORE than his sticker price.

"Reserve hasn't been met"? That means that no good deal is possible.
The seller has paid EXTRA to ensure you don't get a good deal.

Either way... No thanks.

I disagree.

I have had two auctions in the past for items that are VERY rare and nearly never found anywhere, stores, auctions, personal sale. Anywhere. These are video games, so bare with me.

First auction, a complete Ninja Master's arcade kit. In the past 5 years I've seen I believe 5 of them for sale and all through Neo-Geo.com where the community is specifically into that system. The kit routinely (at that time) got $350-400. I posted one for sale on eBay with a reserve at $300. I was looking to move it since I happened, over 4 years, to get 2. The ending price? $152.

Second auction, for Magical Chase US, complete, sealed, never been on a store shelf. The loose game gets $200. With box, $400. Sealed? Never seen. Untouched? Unheard off. The loose one is available about 4 times a year. Boxed, maybe once every 1-2 years. Sealed? I've seen 2 on eBay in 5-6 years. One was my auction. I set the reserve at $400, the usual price on the boxed one, not a sealed one. Buy It Now was at $600. Auction ended in 10 hours, after a bunch of boneheads low-balled at $200-300.

Two cases with similar situations, drastically different results. The long and short of it is, with rare items, you NEED a reserve. You list it for a week and the frequency is once every 2 years, chances are the serious bidders for that item may be asleep at the wheel. That's a 1-in-104 chance of the itme being available, so you may give up hope.

[greg]

How did your two examples prove anything?

Your own argument proves to me that you should have had no reserve on either auction.

Just start the bidding at your reserve and let it ride.

The $600 might have gone even higher if that many people bid within 10 hours...
who knows what kind of bidding war could have happened without that reserve (and without that "Buy It Now")?

The "reserve not met" might have sold for $300 if that was the starting price...
instead of making people "guess" and have everyone get tired of trying at $152.

Bidders may WANT to buy your stuff... but if you make it hard (using a reserve), many will stop trying...
or avoid you entirely.

Option #1 - Setting a reserve:
a) ensures that you don't sell an item for a price that's too low (in your opinion)
-AND-
b) makes people avoid bidding because they don't want to play "guess my reserve" games

Option #2 - Setting the starting price at whatever your reserve was going to be:
a) ensures that you don't sell an item for a price that's too low (in your opinion)
-AND-
b) lets people know you'll actually sell the item for the price on the screen, if they win. No games.

So, why would Option #1 ever be better for the buyer OR the seller than Option #2?

[D-Lite]

How did your two examples prove anything?

Your own argument proves to me that you should have had no reserve on either auction.

Just start the bidding at your reserve and let it ride.

The $600 might have gone even higher if that many people bid within 10 hours...
who knows what kind of bidding war could have happened without that reserve (and without that "Buy It Now")?

The "reserve not met" might have sold for $300 if that was the starting price...
instead of making people "guess" and have everyone get tired of trying at $152.

Bidders may WANT to buy your stuff... but if you make it hard (using a reserve), many will stop trying...
or avoid you entirely.

Option #1 - Setting a reserve:
a) ensures that you don't sell an item for a price that's too low (in your opinion)
-AND-
b) makes people avoid bidding because they don't want to play "guess my reserve" games

Option #2 - Setting the starting price at whatever your reserve was going to be:
a) ensures that you don't sell an item for a price that's too low (in your opinion)
-AND-
b) lets people know you'll actually sell the item for the price on the screen, if they win. No games.

So, why would Option #1 ever be better for the buyer OR the seller than Option #2?

Sure, you're right that just setting the start at the reserve is more obvious. But by the same token, a high starting price can scare off just as many people as a so-called "secret reserve". It really depends on the seller setting a fair price at all anyways.

You must also realize that reserve fees are fully refunded if the auction meets reserve. But insertion fees are not and those are dependent on starting price. That's a very good reason to pick Option #1.

I list the reserve price in many of my auctions. Or if I don't list it, 90% of the time someone asks and I answer and post the answer.

The auction that ended at $152 was relisted. Two more times. With lower reserve values. And it never reached them. But I didn't sell it below the value I placed on it, so I really didn't lose much and I lost less because the insertion fee was lower and the reserve fee is less. But that's kind of a wash unless the item meets reserve, which is an obvious benefit.

With the auction that ended at $600, that was a shot in the dark because I had no point of reference. I set the reserve high enough, at $400, that it would keep the Buy It Now available for a bit, but at a price reasonable for the item. There, the reserve price plays a very important role, that of keeping my BIN price available for a serious buyer. Without the reserve, I lose the BIN option and the price may never have reached that loftier goal of $600 that was untested in the market place at the time. So after 10 hours I end up with $600 rather than waiting 7 days and probably chewed off fingernails waiting to see which sniper wins for $511.11.

Look Greg, you obviously don't agree with the reserve and some others don't either. But you seem to be looking at it as black and white. There are benefits to both ways as I've tried to point out.

[Second_Death]

That's why sniping is so essential. It totally rids the game of ANY type of emotion.

Agreed. Additionally, I have noticed that most peckers seem to have limited ebay experience. IOW, they are new to the game.

[Second_Death]

I'm indifferent to reserve auctions. If it is an item I'm actively seeking then it won't effect my participation in the auction. If, however, my interest is purely casual, then I usually do not bid. Never sold personally with a reserve but can definitely understand why a seller would use a reserve to "protect" themselves. The seller must realize though that using a reserve will reduce the amount of interest in their auction especially if it is held in secret. Revealing the reserve amount in the listing will at least let the bidders know what it will take to win the item and should increase the possibility the item will be sold.

[greg]

Look Greg, you obviously don't agree with the reserve and some others don't either. But you seem to be looking at it as black and white. There are benefits to both ways as I've tried to point out.

Sorry, it's just my 10 years avoiding Ebay auctions with reserves talking.

I'm sure you're winning more buyers than you're driving away.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Another way to look at reserves from a seller standpoint is what is the market value currently. Say as the seller you have $200 invested in an item and make that your reserve but start the auction at $9.99. But in the end it only reaches $135, not meeting your reserve. Now you know, OK, the value may have dropped for this but at least I didn't give it up for less than I wanted. You didn't lose $65 off your investment if you weren't sure you'd sell it.

There are plenty of good reasons to have a reserve price on an auction. "Secret reserve" is a funny term because it is a "secret" unless either someone asks or you put it directly in the auction. I do either of those myself because there really isn't anything to lose.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying....at least I hope you're not...

As I have said before, many, many times....there is nothing wrong with reserves.

What IS wrong with a reserve is when a seller decides to KEEP IT A SECRET, even when someone asks.

There are sellers who state outright in their auctions that "we don't reveal the reserve, so don't bother asking" (with those exact words, even.)

Which, of course, is absurd, and merely demonstrates that that seller has control issues in their life.

To sum: reserves, good; secret reserves, bad.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

... When I see a reserve, I click "back" as fast as I can.

Same here.

Agreed... and to take the thought process a little further...

When I see a reserve auction... I immediately assume...

It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a good deal in a reserve auction,
because good deals are always below the reserve price.

Whatever the seller really wants for the item is that reserve price...
and the seller has ensured they will not take less than that amount.

Futhermore, the seller is willing to PAY eBay extra fees
in order to guarantee that he doesn't sell below that reserve.

So this is not a seller who is "taking a chance" where I might get a good deal,
this is a seller paying EXTRA to MAKE SURE that I don't get a good deal.

"Reserve has been met"? That just means someone's paying too much.
It's like offering a used car salesman MORE than his sticker price.

"Reserve hasn't been met"? That means that no good deal is possible.
The seller has paid EXTRA to ensure you don't get a good deal.

Either way... No thanks.

Yup. That's pretty much my thought process, too.

There are rare exceptions, but they are INCREDIBLY rare (ie, the shilling seller who set a $40 "shill bid reserve" on his Evil Ernies....certainly, there were numerous people who were willing to bid MUCH above that.)

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I would only use a reserve to test the waters on an item I really don't want to sell but want to get an idea of the going price.

Does that really work? Most reserve auctions I've seen end far below
the "no reserve" averages that are known for the same item.

I understand if it's a item that is rarely seen on eBay, but given what we know
about "testing the waters" with more common items, it seems that the reserve not met amount
doesn't mean anything... except maybe a "worst case" scenario.

For the record....I frequently used reserves back in the Dark Ages, when eBay didn't charge for reserves, and it was always the same thing: 50% of Guide, in that grade.

That's my "willing to sell" threshold...50% of Guide for any book older than 1975. And, I always told my buyers in the description: "The reserve for this book is 50% of Guide, which I think is a fair price."

Back in '99 and '00, this generally worked most of the time.

I still kick myself for the one book that got a way...a solid, beautiful Amazing Spidey #94 that was a strict 9.4, and it sold for $15....and NM Guide at the time was $60. It was, I think, the first book I ever sold in those halcyon early days of eBay.

Man, was I *SQUEE*. Clearly, it bothers me even to this day, cause I've never gotten over it.

But hey, that's the worst example I can think of, so I guess I was doing ok.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I would only use a reserve to test the waters on an item I really don't want to sell but want to get an idea of the going price.

Does that really work? Most reserve auctions I've seen end far below
the "no reserve" averages that are known for the same item.

I understand if it's a item that is rarely seen on eBay, but given what we know
about "testing the waters" with more common items, it seems that the reserve not met amount
doesn't mean anything... except maybe a "worst case" scenario.

Right . . . "worst case" because you are thinning the heard by putting a reserve in the first place. Many potential bidders are turned off and you lose the chance 2 people will get into a bidding war. (every sellers wet dream)

But every now and then you get a nice little suprise and a reserve you would never expect to be met is surpassed. That why I would limit it to items you really don't want to sell and don't have an already established ebay record of sales to go by.

The only bidding wars I've ever seen on books I sold were a pair of GI Combat #75 and #81 I had that were in actual VF condition, back in 2001....I bought 'em for $35, and they both sold for $177.50 from a bidding war.

That was when I realized the hidden potential of high grade Silver War and Westerns.

And, given my love for the DC grey tone Wars, I sometimes wish I'd never sold 'em....but check what VF guide for these books was in 2001. Hell, check what it is now.

And the buyer was pleased.

Actually, the LCS had gotten in a run of Our Army's from #81-up (yes, THAT one) and GI Combat from about #70-up, with some Star Spangleds and All Americans in there, too.

I really, really should have bought them all. Damn me. Ah well. I bought enough.

Man, I can't wait to show these off....

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

How did your two examples prove anything?

Your own argument proves to me that you should have had no reserve on either auction.

Just start the bidding at your reserve and let it ride.

The $600 might have gone even higher if that many people bid within 10 hours...
who knows what kind of bidding war could have happened without that reserve (and without that "Buy It Now")?

Generally, I HATED using BIN. I always, always worried that my BIN was too low.

Therefore, all my BINS were for the absolute TOP of the averages (generally full guide price.)

That way, if I sold it w/BIN, I knew the odds were AGAINST having a bidding war for the item (but, again, you never can tell.)

The "reserve not met" might have sold for $300 if that was the starting price...
instead of making people "guess" and have everyone get tired of trying at $152.

Bidders may WANT to buy your stuff... but if you make it hard (using a reserve), many will stop trying...
or avoid you entirely.

Option #1 - Setting a reserve:
a) ensures that you don't sell an item for a price that's too low (in your opinion)
-AND-
b) makes people avoid bidding because they don't want to play "guess my reserve" games

Option #2 - Setting the starting price at whatever your reserve was going to be:
a) ensures that you don't sell an item for a price that's too low (in your opinion)
-AND-
b) lets people know you'll actually sell the item for the price on the screen, if they win. No games.

So, why would Option #1 ever be better for the buyer OR the seller than Option #2?

Option #1 is ameliorated by revealing what your reserve is in the description itself.

No guesswork, and you get more eyeballs on your auction.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Sure, you're right that just setting the start at the reserve is more obvious. But by the same token, a high starting price can scare off just as many people as a so-called "secret reserve".

It's not "so-called"....when a seller refuses to reveal a reserve, it is, ipso facto, a reserve that is secret.

That's the issue, here, though the discussion has migrated to reserves in general.

Reserves are fine....reserves that a seller refuses to reveal, even when asked...pointless and lame.

You must also realize that reserve fees are fully refunded if the auction meets reserve. But insertion fees are not and those are dependent on starting price. That's a very good reason to pick Option #1.

Not true. Your insertion fee is based on your starting OR reserve price.

If you have a reserve of $500 on an item, but start the bidding at 99 cents, the insertion fee is $4.80...not 20 cents...same as if your start bid was $500. The reserve fee (refundable if reserve is met) is on TOP of that!

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html

I list the reserve price in many of my auctions. Or if I don't list it, 90% of the time someone asks and I answer and post the answer.

The auction that ended at $152 was relisted. Two more times. With lower reserve values. And it never reached them. But I didn't sell it below the value I placed on it, so I really didn't lose much and I lost less because the insertion fee was lower and the reserve fee is less. But that's kind of a wash unless the item meets reserve, which is an obvious benefit.

With the auction that ended at $600, that was a shot in the dark because I had no point of reference. I set the reserve high enough, at $400, that it would keep the Buy It Now available for a bit, but at a price reasonable for the item. There, the reserve price plays a very important role, that of keeping my BIN price available for a serious buyer. Without the reserve, I lose the BIN option and the price may never have reached that loftier goal of $600 that was untested in the market place at the time. So after 10 hours I end up with $600 rather than waiting 7 days and probably chewed off fingernails waiting to see which sniper wins for $511.11.

Look Greg, you obviously don't agree with the reserve and some others don't either. But you seem to be looking at it as black and white. There are benefits to both ways as I've tried to point out.

No, no....you're not understanding here.

There's nothing WRONG with reserves. Nothing at all.

Reserves are every seller's right.

That people don't LIKE them doesn't mean they don't AGREE with them, or think they're wrong. No one here is saying that reserves are bad or even questionable. Just that they don't like them. I don't like brocolli, but that doesn't make brocolli bad.

What IS wrong are sellers who play the secret reserve game.

There's a huge difference.

[siren3-4]

That people don't LIKE them doesn't mean they don't AGREE with them, or think they're wrong. No one here is saying that reserves are bad or even questionable. Just that they don't like them. I don't like brocolli, but that doesn't make brocolli bad.

I used to hate broccoli . . . I mean throw up after tasting it hate . . .

I remember I was sleeping over a friend’s house as a kid and we were sitting down for dinner. His mom made everyone’s dish and brought it to the table.

There before me sat a huge pile of broccoli . . . I tried to explain that I did not like broccoli but all I got back from her was “you need to eat those” . . . .

I think she was trying to say that I was fat (I’ve been a little husky my whole life) and that I needed to eat things other than potato chips. She didn’t understand that I come from an Italian household where eating is a religious experience. (and my mom can cook)

So there I was kind of forced to eat these horrible steamed trees . . .but it was making me gag. So she said “Why don’t you put some catsup on it to cover the taste”

I took the bottle . . put a little catsup on it . .but it didn’t help. So I took the catsup bottle and pretty much emptied the bottle on my plate . . .totally covering the broccoli . . . . I tried again but still couldn’t eat them . . .I think the catsup made it worse . . .

She was so *SQUEE* . . . because I wasted her whole bottle of catsup . . .but I never had to eat broccoli there again.

It’s funny though because now I actually like the taste of broccoli . . . you think I’d be scarred for life or something . . .


. . . . what’s this thread about again ?

[greg]

Option #1 is ameliorated by revealing what your reserve is in the description itself.

No guesswork, and you get more eyeballs on your auction.

Maybe... when I click on an auction and see "Reserve not met", I don't even bother reading the description.
(I've already hit the "Back" button.)

[X-O HoboJoe]

I still kick myself for the one book that got a way...a solid, beautiful Amazing Spidey #94 that was a strict 9.4, and it sold for $15....and NM Guide at the time was $60. It was, I think, the first book I ever sold in those halcyon early days of eBay.

Man, was I *SQUEE*. Clearly, it bothers me even to this day, cause I've never gotten over it.

But hey, that's the worst example I can think of, so I guess I was doing ok.

NO WAY!

Actually, don't feel too rotten, it CGC'd at a 9.2, so it's not all that bad.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I still kick myself for the one book that got a way...a solid, beautiful Amazing Spidey #94 that was a strict 9.4, and it sold for $15....and NM Guide at the time was $60. It was, I think, the first book I ever sold in those halcyon early days of eBay.

Man, was I *SQUEE*. Clearly, it bothers me even to this day, cause I've never gotten over it.

But hey, that's the worst example I can think of, so I guess I was doing ok.

NO WAY!

Actually, don't feel too rotten, it CGC'd at a 9.2, so it's not all that bad.

Dick.