If.....

rai4ever · Post by **rai4ever** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:56 pm

you had to do without a certain comic or comics of the Valiant Universe which would it be? There were some titles that the universe can do without.

1) Armorines: Do they really do anything?
2) Mirage: No one cares about their love.
3) Secret Weapons: Started out ok until Bloodshot introduced the "Secret Weapons"....boring.
4) Turok: It was good.... but was he really that important to the Universe?

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:14 pm

I suppose I could get along fine without Secret Weapons, Ninjak and Psi Lords.

Eric Jackson · Post by **Eric Jackson** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:15 pm

secret weapons and psi lords are two i could do without... although i did enjoy secret weapons. At least the first few. Now, as to dr. mirage. I care, i loved that series start to almost finish

rai4ever · Post by **rai4ever** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:25 pm

Psi-Lords are Decedents of the Hard Corps.
Not that great of a comic.
I guess they were important to the universe. In the Malev War.

Another one I forgot was Geomancer. They are important to the universe but the comic was not necessary.

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:26 pm

It's kind of a loaded question. As Valiant showed up books can be great or awful depending on who is doing them. Compare Harbinger 4 to Harbinger 17, Archer and Armstrong 12 to 13, Magnus 5 to 52, X-O 1 to 17 and on and on. The point being that great characters can be ruined by bad creators and great creators can make bad characters good. Anyway back to the question at hand. Valiant could do without (or at least limit the role of):

Armorines
Geomancer
Hard Corps
Psi lords
Secret Weapons
Timewalker

They are all good ideas that don't need monthly books. Every universe needs a supporting cast, one of Valiants downfalls was putting a spotlight on everyone.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:36 pm

I thought that Hard Corps and Geomancer had a lot of possibility but they were only mediocre books at best. Valiant just plain dropped the ball on these two.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:55 am

Toss the Geomancer. And the Psi Lords.

I think the Armorines had pretty good potential. Geez what a crappy video game though.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:11 am

There are no bad characters, only untalented creators.

Alan Moore has proven this over and over and over, for 20 years.

So did Stan Lee.

So did Jim Shooter.

So did Rob Liefeld.

Yes, Rob Liefeld. He showed us how to ruin them.

There are no characters that 'write themselves'. The 2nd most popular character in the entire history of comics, Spiderman, was nearly ruined in the mid 90's with a saga titled clone.

It ALL depends on the creators.

BodaZoffa · Post by **BodaZoffa** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:52 am

Armorines.... definately
Dr. Mirage.... most definately
Rai & the Future Force..... *ugh* should of stuck with Rai
Ninjak.... fluff character
Psi Lords.... Psi "who cares" Lords

Hope nobody is offended....

Boda

Eric Jackson · Post by **Eric Jackson** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:42 am

well, secret weapons was kind of an add-on for most of the characters that wasn't needed..

On the other-hand, I cannot believe so many people have listed dr. mirage.. Just one of my fav's.

Escaflown4 · Post by **Escaflown4** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:56 am

Hey Eric, you're not alone. I also thought Dr. Mirage was a good read. Kind of an escape from all the save the world or bash the villain themes.

As for the titles I can do without:

1) Psi Lords - whose brain fart idea was to start this series?
2) Geomancer - really poor execution, had so much potential
3) Ninjak - same as Geomancer, they really needed to hire better writers
4) Armorines - Found this series kinda dull...
5) Turok - Great character, but seriously, how many dinosaurs do we have to see him kill?
6) Secret Weapons - Wasn't a bad read in the beginning. I really liked Dr. Eclipse being the main villain, but that ended quickly.

myron · Post by **myron** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:37 am

I'll get in on the Dr. Mirage thing also...thought it was a nice, smooth. easy read...kinda fun, the way A & A started as well.

Psi-lords was a stinker, but you know I could see it being done well...it needed more depth, and they should have all been "bad guys" (depends on perspective) trying to take over the galaxy...had potential...but it was really crap that was released

geomancer needed something (maybe a torch)

I thought ninjak was terrible

Secret Weapons could have been a cool monthly crossover tying things in the universe together...

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:53 pm

I say Rai and the Future Force. Not only is it one of the stupidest names in comics but it was basically Magnus' second title. It would have been a lot more interesting if the focus was more on Rai (the lineage) and more Japan-centric. Rai went from a kick *SQUEE* idea to a Bloodshot clone and Magnus groupie. Sad.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:19 pm

Ryan wrote:Rai went from a kick *SQUEE* idea to a Bloodshot clone and Magnus groupie. Sad.

Funny cause it's so true.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:49 pm

Ryan wrote:...Rai went from a kick *SQUEE* idea to a....Magnus groupie.

Wow. I didn't know Rai and Magnus swung both ways.

myron · Post by **myron** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:51 pm

I thought it was leeja who became a Rai groupie???

BodaZoffa · Post by **BodaZoffa** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:15 pm

Does anyone know why Valiant did away with Rai, & replaced it with the Future Force? I remember Layton saying something about this, but I can't remember it. If Valiant wanted to have tie in with the future, you would think they would have done it with Magnus or maybe even Solar.

Boda

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:15 pm

Titles I would keep (assuming good writing, the core titles)

Magnus, Solar, Harbinger, Shadowman, Eternal Warrior, XO Manowar

Titles I would add as the universe got stronger (ie, could support more titles through sales)

Bloodshot, HARDCorp, Archer and Armstrong, Dr. Mirage, Bloodshot, Timewalker

Titles I would get rid of
Geomancer, Armorines, PSILords, Visitor, Rai, Secret Weapons, Turok, Ninjak

Titles I would start
Stories of the Rai - stories of the Rai heroes from the past and future

Magnus is a core title because it would deal with the future of the Valiantverse.

Harbinger is the core title for the whole harbinger/Harada storyline.

Solar is a core title for the creation of the Valiantverse, and the most powerful (IMO) member.

Shadowman is the core title for the magic/Darque aspect of the Valiantverse.

XOManowar is the core title for the spider-aliens storyline.

And Eternal Warrior is the core title that can tie everything together - someone who has been around since the beginning, and fights for the earth.

Chris

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:35 pm

Ryan wrote:I say Rai and the Future Force. Not only is it one of the stupidest names in comics but it was basically Magnus' second title.

A dumb title? Man, I was hoping they would rename Secret Weapons "Geoff and the Present Pack" and I was looking forward to "Gilad and the Past Patrol"

Seriously geting back to the orginal question...it depends on the definition of "important". If important means "in Rai 0 important" well that's pretty much all the early characters since that's what they had at the time. However most of your most popular and memorable characters, concepts, and events do happen to be with the first dozen titles. After Turok 1 you started having new titles that were far less popular (and reading them you knew why

).

And I don't know if Turok was vital to VH-1. His title should have been since he was the most tied to Unity and it's promised aftermath, but it wasn't. Should've been the most fun too. I mean the idea of hunting dinosaurs in modern times is super fun. And "Dinosaur Hunter" has got to be the coolest sounding occupation of all time

. It's ashame the book wasn't better.

GJB · Post by **GJB** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:38 pm

cjv wrote:Titles I would get rid of
Geomancer, Armorines, PSILords, Visitor, Rai, Secret Weapons, Turok, Ninjak

Valiant, IMO, gave characters suited for guest appearances, their own series. I could have taken appearances here and there in the core titles, but I didn't feel some of these characters had enough depth to sustain a monthly title. I guess that's not a revelation from the way things turned out.

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:49 pm

psi-lords, armorines, geomancer, secret weapons, rai and FF, latter A&A.

i loved dr mirage, and how can anybody DREAM of not having Turok?!

lobo · Post by **lobo** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:58 pm

I guess I'm one of the few that thought PSI Lords started out OK in the first 4-5 issues. I really think they have real potential in the hands of the right creators like ZWH stated.
Turok should stay also but Ninjak and armorines can go.

Geomancer was a thankfully shortlived series but that character should be revamped because the geomancer lore is core to the Valiant continuity.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:15 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote: Wow. I didn't know Rai and Magnus swung both ways.

hmm.. my comment was a bit harsh, sorry. In real life people can tell when I say something shocking just for effect, but on the internet it can offend people.

comicguy · Post by **comicguy** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:46 pm

My can do without list:

Psi Lords
Ninjak
Geomancer
Armories
Secret Weapons

rai4ever · Post by **rai4ever** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:42 pm

I almost forgot......
I would do away with Ninjak.