How much do you pay?

[GJB]

Something on my mind. I have noticed that it is almost impossible to find late 80's-early 90's comics in NM/Mint condition. Some comics I'm looking for:

Batman 417-420 Ten Nights of The Beast
Batman Year One 404-407
Year Two Detective 575-578
DDevil 248,249
Early Punisher issues

OK, each LCS I visit has these issues, however, they are usually VF at best with stress marks on the spine being the main detractor. ebay is ridiculous, I still haven't received a single comic in the condition stated by the seller. I can buy a Batman run, #'s 417-420, for around $40 from a LCS and they are probably NM-, or.... I can risk it on ebay, hope for the best, pay $10 and probably get crap in return. That's beside the point, my question to all of you is, If found in NM/M condition, how much would you guys/gals pay over guide for comics on your want list?

[whetteon]

If eBay allowed me to actually view the copies up close before I placed a bid I would most likely spend 1.5 time the going rates on some of the premium books (hence CGC crazy prices). Example, a Eternal Warrior #1 gold flat goes for $25, I would have no problems paying $37.50 if I knew that book would be absolutely NM+. The trick I was told, and I'll pass onto you, is always assume the book is at least 1 grade lower then advertised.

As for pre-unity, I have multiple copies so I'm not likely to pay more then book value for even the most incredible batch up on the auction block.

[GJB]

Good stuff Whetteon, thanks for your insight!

I consider myself a strict grader, but I've never seen a cgc book, or what it looks like in it's slab. Maybe I'm too strict and copies of books I would consider failing, may pass, 9.6+, in cgc's eyes. The thing is, I'll never send them in to cgc, but in the back of my mind, I'd like to think my collection is cgc 9.6+ material.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Something on my mind. I have noticed that it is almost impossible to find late 80's-early 90's comics in NM/Mint condition. Some comics I'm looking for:

Batman 417-420 Ten Nights of The Beast
Batman Year One 404-407
Year Two Detective 575-578
DDevil 248,249
Early Punisher issues

OK, each LCS I visit has these issues, however, they are usually VF at best with stress marks on the spine being the main detractor. ebay is ridiculous, I still haven't received a single comic in the condition stated by the seller. I can buy a Batman run, #'s 417-420, for around $40 from a LCS and they are probably NM-, or.... I can risk it on ebay, hope for the best, pay $10 and probably get crap in return. That's beside the point, my question to all of you is, If found in NM/M condition, how much would you guys/gals pay over guide for comics on your want list?

GJB! RIGHT ON!!! Another BAT FAN!!! WOOHOO!!!

I've been buying these EXACT issues for YEARS..my specialty, of course, is 80's books....and have runs and runs of them. Yay! It's a crapshoot, BUT....you CAN find these books in decent shape online..you just have to be willing to play the odds.

It is getting nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find books older than 2000 in LCS....because no one SELLS back issues anymore (no shop owner understands that if you BUY them for 5 cents each and SELL them for 10 cents each, you're DOING OK.)

I WILL say...of the list up there, the absolute HARDEST to find is Year Two...they're a *SQUEE* to find, mainly because they were ordered in MUCH MUCH lower numbers than Year One....I usually have to pay AT LEAST $10 a set for them...Year One you can usually get for $5-$10.

(Which is funny, cause in O-Street they're $65. Please. $65? WHO pays $65 for NM- copies of these books, EVEN IN CGC???)

As for your question...you know me, I'm a bottom feeder...I don't pay 'Guide' for ANY...THING.

[lobo]

I still have some of those Batman issues on my want list as well due to not finding them in NM+. For early Punishers though, I have local source who has tons in awesome condition that he sells for maybe two or three or more on the dollar. I've built most of my Punisher Vol1 and War Journal runs for maybe $60 CDN all strictly NM.
Maybe I'm lucky in this case.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Dude, I am a BIG Bat Fan...

Dude...you KNOW how I got into comics in the first place....right?

[GJB]

Something on my mind. I have noticed that it is almost impossible to find late 80's-early 90's comics in NM/Mint condition. Some comics I'm looking for:

Batman 417-420 Ten Nights of The Beast
Batman Year One 404-407
Year Two Detective 575-578
DDevil 248,249
Early Punisher issues

OK, each LCS I visit has these issues, however, they are usually VF at best with stress marks on the spine being the main detractor. ebay is ridiculous, I still haven't received a single comic in the condition stated by the seller. I can buy a Batman run, #'s 417-420, for around $40 from a LCS and they are probably NM-, or.... I can risk it on ebay, hope for the best, pay $10 and probably get crap in return. That's beside the point, my question to all of you is, If found in NM/M condition, how much would you guys/gals pay over guide for comics on your want list?

GJB! RIGHT ON!!! Another BAT FAN!!! WOOHOO!!!

I've been buying these EXACT issues for YEARS..my specialty, of course, is 80's books....and have runs and runs of them. Yay! It's a crapshoot, BUT....you CAN find these books in decent shape online..you just have to be willing to play the odds.

It is getting nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find books older than 2000 in LCS....because no one SELLS back issues anymore (no shop owner understands that if you BUY them for 5 cents each and SELL them for 10 cents each, you're DOING OK.)

I WILL say...of the list up there, the absolute HARDEST to find is Year Two...they're a *SQUEE* to find, mainly because they were ordered in MUCH MUCH lower numbers than Year One....I usually have to pay AT LEAST $10 a set for them...Year One you can usually get for $5-$10.

(Which is funny, cause in O-Street they're $65. Please. $65? WHO pays $65 for NM- copies of these books, EVEN IN CGC???)

As for your question...you know me, I'm a bottom feeder...I don't pay 'Guide' for ANY...THING.

Dude, I am a BIG Bat Fan...

Right on Gentlemen! My reintroduction into Valiant, and subsequent addiction, is spreading into other titles I held so dear many moons ago! Batman has some classic story arcs within issues 400-450. Another great read I was looking for, and found, is Batman the Cult.

[GJB]

I still have some of those Batman issues on my want list as well due to not finding them in NM+. For early Punishers though, I have local source who has tons in awesome condition that he sells for maybe two or three or more on the dollar. I've built most of my Punisher Vol1 and War Journal runs for maybe $60 CDN all strictly NM.
Maybe I'm lucky in this case.

That's the way to do it Lobo, plus, not a bad investment. The early Punisher, 1-15, maybe higher, and the Jim Lee PWJ issues are solid. Even with these issues, All I come accross are picked through copies, in less than spectacular grades. And I agree with ZWH, it's becoming harder to find LCS's that even carry back issues.

[Chuck]

Hey Zeph,

Let me guess. It was Frank Miller's BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT.


Hey Knight,

Changing the subject. Do you follow Bay Area College/Pro Football (Beside the Sabre Cats )? Think Cal's overated?

[Byrneout]

Another good source...

If you have a half-price book store near you, check them out. I found a run of Hulk (#181-211) there for $5.00, packaged togather.

Yeah, THAT Hulk #181. VF Condition, too.

Also, check the other used book stores. Every now and then they'll buy the collection that was sold by someone's mom or girlfriend - lots of great deals to be found there, PARTICULARLY on 80's comics.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Hey Zeph,

Let me guess. It was Frank Miller's BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT.

No. That was 3 years come and gone before I ever consciously purchased a comic.

Flash back to the summer of '89....

Bush was in the White House....the Berlin Wall was soon to be a millions mementos on a million desks....Milli Vanilli was busy winning their Best New Artist Grammy....

...and a little summer flick was taking the nation by storm.

Not since 1966 had the United States been so swept up with Batmania....but this was a NEW Batmania...a darker, bleaker...and INFINITELY more exciting for us fans of Explody Films (yes, that is the correct term, according to IMDB. )

So I go and see this flick during Boy Scout Summer Camp where I was working as a counselor type fellow...and LOVE IT. LOVE LOVE LOVE it.

Now, keep in mind, I had almost NOTHING to do with comics as a kid, and only even REMEMBER seeing the cover to one of them before the age of 17....

Rom #47.

That's it.

So...imagine my surprise at walking into a book store in town (I've always been a huge book nerd) and seeing comics...now, I knew they EXISTED..but really, had never given them thought.

But I HAD been collecting coins, avidly, since the age of 10. So I knew a thing or two about collecting.

So I look on the wall...and see comics for MORE than cover price! This astonished me, and as I looked around I ALSO discovered a 50 cent bin. I thumbed through...and saw $2.50 comics for FIFTY CENTS!

'Oh, man, I can make a FORTUNE selling these for cover price!'

Nevermind that they were GI Joe in 3-D and Alien Nation, the one shot, amongst others that I can no longer recall.

So, hey, I didn't know what a 50 cent bin actually MEANT.

Anyhoo, long story even longer, I ALSO bought my very first 'NEW' book off the stands....Batman #437...which copy I have to this day, and will never....EVER...sell. In fact, it might go into the crematorium with me.

(I picked the 'nicest copy', even then, but, of course, it's prolly a VF at best. The book was, after all, about 2 months old when I got it...#438 and #439 were ahead of it, and maybe even #440...this was August, remember.)

Naturally, I ignored Cry for Dawn #1, Caliber Presents #1, and alllll those McFarlane Spidermans hanging out there for cover price....

...I din't know, ya know?

Of course, I took the comics home and promptly forgot about them for 8 months or so, until a friend in High School introduced me to HIS collection, then we stopped at my first store...the Land of Nevawuz, in Danville, CA...and the rest...as they say...is history.

I got my copy of X-Men #266 as my sub copy at the shop. I missed New Mutants #87 as it came out, but went back several months later and bought several at $1.25. Not bad. 1990 wasn't a bad year for comics...not at all. Of course, Death in the Family was 'selling' for $160 a set...man, I really hope those books come back, someday. I've got so many sets I've bought for $15 or less.

So...Batman is the reason I got into comics.....and, now, 15 years later, almost half my life, has been dedicated, personally and professionally, to comics. Funny that.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Right on Gentlemen! My reintroduction into Valiant, and subsequent addiction, is spreading into other titles I held so dear many moons ago! Batman has some classic story arcs within issues 400-450. Another great read I was looking for, and found, is Batman the Cult.

Cult is SPECTACULAR. Killing Joke is better. Without a doubt, if Dark Knight Returns is the best BATMAN story...Killing Joke is by FAR the best Joker story.

And Bats #400-#450 contains some of the SINGLE BEST Batman stories of all time.

In my oh-so-biased opinion.

[Chuck]

I think Batman Year One by Frank Miller is one of the best origin stories, but Frank Miller has a lot to do with revitalizing Batman (at the time)

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I think Batman Year One by Frank Miller is one of the best origin stories, but Frank Miller has a lot to do with revitalizing Batman (at the time)

I agree, Chuck...in fact, I would say that, after Swamp Thing #21, Year One is the best origin story ever told in comics.

[lobo]

Back issues at comic stores are a result of the economics of the environment. Many stores have closed and the remaining ones are tight on cash and inventory. After the speculators left and the market crashed, store owners were put back on a budget.

Check the volume of issues printed every month by the PULSE. Compare it to the monthly print runs of the early/mid 90's. Those who read comics are few. DC can survive with print runs in the teens and low twenties because or marketing and TV shows. In the pre burst era(VALIANT) comics ran at ten times the print run.

With small volume comes small profit. Its simple economics. With a restricted cash flow, store owners virtually cannot purchase back issues and sell them because of the thin cash flow margins.

Add Ebay to the mix, and its easier to sell your collection (JOE COLLECTOR for example) online when a store owner won't pay a dime for a pile of 90's trash overprints.

Unknowntales

I guess the question begs, is the back issue market slowly going down the tubes because comic shops have poor back issue inventories or have secondary sources like eBay/internet sales/mailhouses compensated enough? Is the back issue market overall fairly healthy with signs of steady growth or is it simply paling in comparison to peak years of decades past?
I won't mention the advent of CGC because it really has created a different subset of the back issue market, with alot of money being thrown around I might add.

[dave]

i would say that the poor inventories is this the biggest killer-i stop frequenting stores that don't have back issues-and the two stores that closed recently near me-sold almost exclusively new issues...and yu-gi-oh cards...

freaks like us enjoy going to shops and finding hidden treasures-it's just part of the hobby.

just like eating-they may come up with a pill one day that you can just swallow and have all the nutrients you need to survive...but are people gonna give up eating their favorite meals?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

i would say that the poor inventories is this the biggest killer-i stop frequenting stores that don't have back issues-and the two stores that closed recently near me-sold almost exclusively new issues...and yu-gi-oh cards...

freaks like us enjoy going to shops and finding hidden treasures-it's just part of the hobby.

just like eating-they may come up with a pill one day that you can just swallow and have all the nutrients you need to survive...but are people gonna give up eating their favorite meals?

You're exactly right, Dave. When I was first collecting, I didn't realize how spoiled I was...several shops in the Bay Area stocked extensive (if over priced) back issue selections. I took it as a matter of course that I could shop for back issues while picking up new issues.

The problem, of course, is that in this great downward cycle that the industry has been in since 1994-95, is that comic store owners AND collectors got spoiled, too. Store owners forgot the basic rules of economics, such as supply and demand, and since they screwed themselves on back issues, made it even worse by refusing to sell ANYTHING 'at a loss', which meant they had Harbinger #1 on the wall at $125 in 1998.

That refusal to 'take a loss' is what led directly to these people (thankfully) going out of business.

Like I've said in the past, idiots who don't understand business have no business IN business. And, unfortunately, this industry was PLAGUED by idiots in the early 90's.

For years and years, back issues did well when store owners realized that there is a price for everything...if you could sell that Spidey #1 at $500, you also understood that you couldn't sell those Strange Adventures for more than 10-25 cents each. And that made it work. Turnover was the key, getting people in to supplement and expand their collections, by offering absurdly low prices for 'decent' comics, instead of trying to squeeze every last penny out of every last book.

They paid next to nothing for these books, because the PUBLIC understood that only a SELECT group of comics was 'worth money', and just because it was 20 years old, didn't necessarily mean that anyone cared.

Now, however, and for the past 15-ish years...the public has been led to believe that everything printed is worth money, and if it's older than yesterday, it HAS to have 'gone up in price'.

You see it all the time, with idiots trying to sell Spiderman Unlimited #1 for $300. These people need to be beaten over the heads with these books, but, sadly, that's illegal. So, the only thing we can do is laugh at them for being so foolish.

The problem with THAT, however, is that now people with comics ALSO refused to understand basic economics, and wouldn't 'sell' for less than what THEY paid for the books...usually cover price...forgetting the VERY old rule that cover price was valid ONLY WHEN the book was NEW. Once the book was a BACK issue, it was worth ONLY what someone else was willing to pay for it...and most of the time, that was much, MUCH less than cover (as it should be. Cover price was for the NEWness, the NOWness of the book....something that's OLD shouldn't sell for the NEW price...right?)

Now, of course, we have 10+ years of bad times, and people on BOTH sides of the counter who don't understand economics, with the net result that no one's buying...and no one's selling...and VOILA!...you have a stagnated economy, which any economics professor will tell you is bad, bad news. It's all about the flow.

I GUARANTEE you, if store owners started BUYING books for 1-5 cents each, and SOLD them for no more than 10 cents each, EVERYONE (well, except the suckers who thought their crap was gold) would be happy. There is a price at which people will even buy Solar #23! That price may be 5 cents, but it's there. Then, the economy of comics would get back into gear, and the industry would begin to heal itself.

Believe me, it's not even CLOSE to even stopping the bloodletting of 1994-95, much less beginning the healing process. Don't believe me?

Comics in the top 100, with print runs less than 5,000 copies.

Signs, ladies and gentlemen, that the industry is still grievously ill.

[GJB]

ZWH, Batman #433... Two words..."Get Out". Do you remember when that was all the buzz in the industry, if I remember correctly.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

ZWH, Batman #433... Two words..."Get Out". Do you remember when that was all the buzz in the industry, if I remember correctly.

I do indeed! The 'silent Batman issue' generated a lot of buzz around early summer of 1989.

Of course....EVERYTHING Batman generated a lot of buzz in ALL of 1989.

If ONLY I'd started collecting two years earlier. Batman back issues into the 200's were only $1 or less...by the time Christmas of 1988 rolled around...forGET it.

[magnusr]

Batman #433... Two words..."Get Out".

John Byrne has said he wouldn't have put even those words in had he known Jim Aparo was the penciller.

/Magnus