Ivar''s, Gilad's, and Aram's ages

Robbstrd · Post by **Robbstrd** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:03 pm

I know in early ads it was mentioned that Gilad & Aram were 10,000 years old, but Valiant Voice #2 later had them being born about 5000 years ago..Seeing that Valiant Voice had the VH1 timeline, I'm fairly certain this is correct. However, I'm currently "edit-warring" with someone over the Archer & Armstrong Wikipedia entry who claims the Valiant Voice is wrong. Was this issue ever officially addressed, in say, a letters page or other "official" Valiant communications? Is it in the Valiant Universe Bible that I'm told exists?

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:37 pm

Even the Valiant Continuity Bible lists two different ages for Armstrong.---Steve

muzzsucker · Post by **muzzsucker** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:46 pm

Robbstrd wrote:I know in early ads it was mentioned that Gilad & Aram were 10,000 years old, but VALIANT Voice #2 later had them being born about 5000 years ago..Seeing that VALIANT Voice had the VH1 timeline, I'm fairly certain this is correct. However, I'm currently "edit-warring" with someone over the Archer & Armstrong Wikipedia entry who claims the VALIANT Voice is wrong. Was this issue ever officially addressed, in say, a letters page or other "official" VALIANT communications? Is it in the VALIANT Universe Bible that I'm told exists?

In Eternal Warrior #1 we see Gilad and Aram grow up over approx. 40 years, fight Mesopotamia and then go their separate ways. Then they meet in the Court of Cheops which is the 4th Dynasty of Egypt or approx. 2500 BC. Here they say it has been 600 years. So we can estimate that they were born approx. 640 years before 2500 BC or approx. 2100 BC. This would make them approx 5000 years old.

5000 is the more believable number and the one I've seen more often. It is very reasonable to assume that 10,000 years was the rough draft number used in the advertisements when they were still working out the character.

My only point of contention is that the very beginning of Eternal Warrior #1 takes place "Before Recorded History" and I'm not sure if 2100 BC qualifies.

muzzsucker · Post by **muzzsucker** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:48 pm

Robbstrd wrote:However, I'm currently "edit-warring" with someone over the Archer & Armstrong Wikipedia entry who claims the VALIANT Voice is wrong.

Found the edit-war. It's a fun read...go get him Rob

Armstrong's Age
Please quit changing it. 5000 is incorrect. In issue number three he says that he celebrated his 5000th birthday in Herculaneum. Considering it was destroyed in 79 AD, even if he isn't 10,000 years old he's at least well over 5,000. It doesn't matter what any timeline says, the comic itself overrules that. Armstrong has stretched the truth and has told outright lies, but that wasn't one of them. 70.54.127.2 21:19, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

See Valiant Voice #2--Aram was born 3266 BC. That is considered the official timeline of the Valiant Universe. As for knowing whether a fictional character is lying, unless you're Jim Shooter (or perhaps BWS), you have no way of knowing.--Robbstrd 21:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Barry Windsor-Smith wrote that issue. I didn't say I could tell when he was lying, just that there was no reason to think so unless something valid contradicted it. That timeline is not canon, anymore than the Marvel Handbook is canon for that universe. Admit it when you have no idea what you're talking about, when you're in over your head. 70.54.127.2 21:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Valiant Voice, being a publication of Voyager Communications (you know, the company that owned Valiant), certainly qualifies as canon. Or did you not realize that?--Robbstrd 22:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Archer_%26_Armstrong"

IanAlexavier · Post by **IanAlexavier** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:14 pm

Cant there be an entry into Wiki that states that these ages are debatable? I cant help it, Im a mental health counselor and Im always helping people come up with reasonable compromises...

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:16 pm

Didn't you know? "Wiki is the asylum being run by the inmates!" Just ask my new-old buddy over at CPG.....

-slym

IanAlexavier · Post by **IanAlexavier** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:18 pm

LOL thats ok, Ive worked with inmates as well

If they dont play nice then they get the 24 hour lock-down and no seconds at dinner!

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:20 pm

slym2none wrote:Didn't you know? "Wiki is the asylum being run by the inmates!" Just ask my new-old buddy over at CPG.....

-slym

IanAlexavier · Post by **IanAlexavier** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:23 pm

ahhh!!! Its the long lost Walmart photo of Magnus before he was taken into the future!!

What a cruel disguise.. no wonder he went drag!!

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:27 pm

ianalexavier wrote:ahhh!!! Its the long lost Walmart photo of Magnus before he was taken into the future!!

What a cruel disguise.. no wonder he went drag!!

I guess that is a worse look than a battle tunic!!!!!

(same color shoes though)

X-O Dudeowar · Post by **X-O Dudeowar** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:49 pm

What if you're counting the Gilad from North Am in 4002? That'd make him close to 10,000! o.o

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:36 am

muzzsucker wrote:In Eternal Warrior #1 we see Gilad and Aram grow up over approx. 40 years, fight Mesopotamia and then go their separate ways. Then they meet in the Court of Cheops which is the 4th Dynasty of Egypt or approx. 2500 BC. Here they say it has been 600 years. So we can estimate that they were born approx. 640 years before 2500 BC or approx. 2100 BC. This would make them approx 5000 years old.

5000 is the more believable number and the one I've seen more often. It is very reasonable to assume that 10,000 years was the rough draft number used in the advertisements when they were still working out the character.

My only point of contention is that the very beginning of Eternal Warrior #1 takes place "Before Recorded History" and I'm not sure if 2100 BC qualifies.

That is pretty close to the timeline I understood, but that puts his birth at ca. 3140 BC, not 2100 BC. Makes him over 7000 in 4002 AD.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:12 am

Eternal Warrior issues 37 and 38 take place while Gilad and Aram are still naturally young. That's in 3214 BC.

Timewalker 0 shows the birth of Aram. That's "four years later" than "4000 BC give or take".

One part of the VCB lists 3270, 3268 and 3266 BC as the birthyears of the brothers.

Only thing certain is that the 10.000 years statement is incorrect.

/Magnus

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:20 am

In issue number three he says that he celebrated his 5000th birthday in Herculaneum.

Totally irrelevant. In the very same panel Archer says "I think you're joking with me" and Aram answers "Maybe, kid".

/Magnus

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:09 am

muzzsucker wrote:
Robbstrd wrote:I know in early ads it was mentioned that Gilad & Aram were 10,000 years old, but VALIANT Voice #2 later had them being born about 5000 years ago..Seeing that VALIANT Voice had the VH1 timeline, I'm fairly certain this is correct. However, I'm currently "edit-warring" with someone over the Archer & Armstrong Wikipedia entry who claims the VALIANT Voice is wrong. Was this issue ever officially addressed, in say, a letters page or other "official" VALIANT communications? Is it in the VALIANT Universe Bible that I'm told exists?
In Eternal Warrior #1 we see Gilad and Aram grow up over approx. 40 years, fight Mesopotamia and then go their separate ways. Then they meet in the Court of Cheops which is the 4th Dynasty of Egypt or approx. 2500 BC. Here they say it has been 600 years.

We can also assume though that their parting 600 years before doesn't mean that this meeting was the first to occur after Aram first left Gilad. I don't have alot of the stories to back it, but I don't know they ever set a date of birth conclusively. Can't we just say they are really really really old and be done with. Stop the insanity.

muzzsucker wrote:So we can estimate that they were born approx. 640 years before 2500 BC or approx. 2100 BC. This would make them approx 5000 years old.

5000 is the more believable number and the one I've seen more often. It is very reasonable to assume that 10,000 years was the rough draft number used in the advertisements when they were still working out the character.

My only point of contention is that the very beginning of Eternal Warrior #1 takes place "Before Recorded History" and I'm not sure if 2100 BC qualifies.

Then again, Armstrong did know specifically what kind of flying dinosaur was pooping on him so just maybe...

Robbstrd · Post by **Robbstrd** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:32 am

muzzsucker wrote: My only point of contention is that the very beginning of Eternal Warrior #1 takes place "Before Recorded History" and I'm not sure if 2100 BC qualifies.

The 33rd century BCE is "before recorded history" in Anatolia, and about the same time as recorded history in Sumer, IIRC.

inmyblood · Post by **inmyblood** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:23 pm

I know this is off topic but A&A was such fun reading. The BWS issues kick so much a$$.

If there ever is a Valiant revamp I hope BWS gets back on A&A.

Sorry. Back to your discussion

bamaphilosopher · Post by **bamaphilosopher** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:53 pm

I agree with that. I don't think A&A would work without BWS--no one else ever seemed to capture those characters (other than Shooter, of course).

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:03 pm

bamaphilosopher wrote:I agree with that. I don't think A&A would work without BWS--no one else ever seemed to capture those characters (other than Shooter, of course).

I'll do it.... I'm a history teacher......

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:37 pm

Elveen wrote:
bamaphilosopher wrote:I agree with that. I don't think A&A would work without BWS--no one else ever seemed to capture those characters (other than Shooter, of course).

I'll do it.... I'm a history teacher......

Yeah... but are you funny?

-slym

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Ivar''s, Gilad's, and Aram's ages

Ivar''s, Gilad's, and Aram's ages

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