When did VALIANT jump the shark?

cobra_commander · Post by **cobra_commander** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:27 am

Basically when did they start to suck? For me Unity was the turning point. It wasn't really the same after that. Chromium covers and Turok #1. It kind of lost its spirit with all those million copy print runs. Also Shooter leaving. After that they kind of lost the plot.

After I get some replies on the post I'll do a poll.

k_c_collectibles · Post by **k_c_collectibles** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:34 am

I think Valiant continued to put out some quality stuff after Big Jim left. I believe that most titles were actually pretty good for a while including Archer & Armstrong (until BWS left), Bloodshot (VanHook rocks!), Eternal Warrior (most of the run), Harbinger (until issue #26), Magnus (until the Malev war was over), Shadowman (Bob Hall is great!), Solar (most of the stuff was pretty good, but the later issues SUCK!!), Turok (Rags did an AWESOME job!) and X-O (I liked most of the stories up until birthquake).

I think Birthquake was the beginning of the end for the company. I believe that was when Acclaim took full control of the company and started the rapid descent. For me that is when they "jumped the shark"

Chris

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:43 am

k_c_collectibles wrote:I think Birthquake was the beginning of the end for the company. I believe that was when Acclaim took full control of the company and started the rapid descent. For me that is when they "jumped the shark"

Chris

Same here. Birthquake.

David_Cody · Post by **David_Cody** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:59 am

I could see a palpable change in Valiant after BWS left A&A. Valiant for me was never the same. Course post BQuake was another milestone.

Perhaps the biggest during that time was when Marz took over writing X-O and single-handedly destroyed my favorite character. I stopped buying all Valiant after that.

RobInOttawa · Post by **RobInOttawa** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:16 am

I'll have my answer for this question in a couple of months. I'm reading post-unity Valiants for the first time and so far think that the quality of story telling is still very strong at this point. I'm up to around Magnus 21 in the Valiant timeline. Only Hardcorps and Bloodshot have been introduced and have their own series.

It is funny though that in most titles, there are a lot of "story by Jim Shooter", written by [author]. Even though Jim Shooter was gone for months at this point, the story ideas that he had were still being used and developed.

aj583 · Post by **aj583** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:23 am

They lost it for me around Chaos Effect. I just remember some BAD stories between Chaos and Birthquake. I remeber X-O (Wolfbridge Affair) and Hard Corps after Chaos...man those stunk compared to the earlier days.

96Valiantfan · Post by **96Valiantfan** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:43 am

For me it was right after BWS left,without my monthly fix of A+A it just wasn't the same.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:45 pm

BIRTHQUAKE!!!!

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:26 pm

Valiant was done for whenever Layton started showing up in those editorials with the sunglasses.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:38 pm

Tim Petty wrote:VALIANT was done for whenever Layton started showing up in those editorials with the sunglasses.

And started putting in pictures of himself playing guitar.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:28 pm

96Valiantfan wrote:For me it was right after BWS left,without my monthly fix of A+A it just wasn't the same.

Same here. And the "new harbinger". Man that blew goats.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:30 pm

400yrs wrote:
96Valiantfan wrote:For me it was right after BWS left,without my monthly fix of A+A it just wasn't the same.
Man that blew goats.

-Brian

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:23 pm

VALIANT was still great after Unity...

I have been reading "new VALIANT books" (for me at least) all summer. I have really enjoyed some of the books. I haven't read Chaos (execpt for the A&A, Eternal book, and I thought it was not so bueno) but I have read some after that. I have not read anything up to Birthquake of after...

but you can't dsimiss VALIANT after Unity or even when Shooter left...

there still are many good stories after.... I think various books decreased in quality at various points, and some never got good at all(I could not keep reading Psi-Lords after I started, someday I will try again)

And I have liked every Second life of... that I have read.

and

without my monthly fix of A+A it just wasn't the same.

Only 26 issues of A&A! LAME! Books like A&A is what made VALIANT different, IMO.

There needs to be a thread on this.....

MedicAR · Post by **MedicAR** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:02 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:
Tim Petty wrote:VALIANT was done for whenever Layton started showing up in those editorials with the sunglasses.
And started putting in pictures of himself playing guitar.

dac55 · Post by **dac55** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:17 pm

aj583 wrote:They lost it for me around Chaos Effect. I just remember some BAD stories between Chaos and Birthquake. I remeber X-O (Wolfbridge Affair) and Hard Corps after Chaos...man those stunk compared to the earlier days.

About the same here.

David

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:26 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:
Tim Petty wrote:VALIANT was done for whenever Layton started showing up in those editorials with the sunglasses.
And started putting in pictures of himself playing guitar.

Don't forget the pic of him in a 'Speedo'.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:38 pm

jedimarley wrote: Don't forget the pic of him in a 'Speedo'.

Don't remember that. Man am I lucky

Not that any of us would look any better in one

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:40 pm

k_c_collectibles wrote:I think VALIANT continued to put out some quality stuff after Big Jim left. I believe that most titles were actually pretty good for a while including Archer & Armstrong (until BWS left), Bloodshot (VanHook rocks!), Eternal Warrior (most of the run), Harbinger (until issue #26), Magnus (until the Malev war was over), Shadowman (Bob Hall is great!), Solar (most of the stuff was pretty good, but the later issues SUCK!!), Turok (Rags did an AWESOME job!) and X-O (I liked most of the stories up until birthquake).

I think Birthquake was the beginning of the end for the company. I believe that was when Acclaim took full control of the company and started the rapid descent. For me that is when they "jumped the shark"

Chris

Well said.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:12 am

I thought Valiant was GREAT during pre-Unity. I thought Valiant was GOOD up until Chaos Effect at which point, I stopped reading.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:15 am

Yeah, it was a downhill slide after Unity. The further away you get from it, the worse the stories are.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:57 am

I originally stopped buying and reading with the June '94 books. Like all of us, I had become spoiled by those '91 and '92 books. After finally reading the post-June '94 books I think they did ocassionally publish something good after that......until Birthquake when it went bad across the board.

Sometimes having initial or early greatness is a curse because its almost impossible to ever live up to it.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:57 am

dac55 wrote:
aj583 wrote:They lost it for me around Chaos Effect. I just remember some BAD stories between Chaos and Birthquake. I remeber X-O (Wolfbridge Affair) and Hard Corps after Chaos...man those stunk compared to the earlier days.
About the same here.

David

Knightt wrote:I thought VALIANT was GREAT during pre-Unity. I thought VALIANT was GOOD up until Chaos Effect at which point, I stopped reading.

Ditto.

-slym

X-O Manowar0415 · Post by **X-O Manowar0415** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:36 pm

Things started going downhill after Jim left. I thought it was just ok for a while after that. I had high hopes for "Birthquake" because I liked the names associated with the books. However, as it turned out, "Birthquake" was the "final nail in the coffin."

alexarc · Post by **alexarc** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:24 pm

It had to be when Jim Shooter was forced out. This guy was all about producing quality stories, and when he was gone, things just started to unravel. Slowly but surley.

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:52 pm

It's hard for me to nail down a time. Most books were good post Unity for a while. A&A should have been cancelled after BWS left since nobody else could handle those characters right. Harbinger was good until Lapham left then tolerable until #25. Chen's art was great but the story just wasn't strong after that. Shadowman is the only book I can say never sucked. Magnus, EW, Bloodshot seemed to hold together the pretty well. Rags work on Turok was great. Dr Mirage was a fun book and Bernards art was beautiful to look at. Everything else was kind of hit or miss.