How was Unity 2000 supposed to unite the Valiant universes?

RobInOttawa · Post by **RobInOttawa** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:37 pm

*** WARNING *** Possible spoilers.
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I've just finished reading Jim Shooter's outline of Unity 2000 (Issues 1 through 6) and was shocked by how it would have ended.

Essentially, Jim treated the VH3 universe ("Prime" valiant characters) as the real Valiant universe. In the end, the VH1 Solar collapsed the multiverse into a single VH3 valiant universe and wiped out everything else. He then kills himself so that the VH3 Phil and Gayle can live their lives together in the VH3 valiant universe.

This wipes out Jim Shooter's contributions for creating the great and memorable VH1 universe, and the contributions of every one else involved. It's like getting revenge on the company he helped create.

Why would Acclaim want this published instead of trying the "Final Solution" idea?

If Unity 2000 #6 were printed in 1999, I would have definately left the Valiant universe for good since all ties to it would be erased.

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:44 pm

Paging TimeWillTell... TimeWillTell to customer service...

TimeWillTell · Post by **TimeWillTell** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:49 pm

Paging TimeWillTell... TimeWillTell to customer service...

Ahem.... Hello.
May I help you?

-TWT

TimeWillTell · Post by **TimeWillTell** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:50 pm

Sorry you feel that way Rob.
-TWT

TimeWillTell · Post by **TimeWillTell** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:52 pm

If Unity 2000 #6 were printed in 1999, I would have definately left the VALIANT universe for good since all ties to it would be erased.

Well... It didn't happen did it?

-TWT

Schmakt · Post by **Schmakt** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:31 am

interesting thread regarding Unity2k:
viewtopic.php?t=7222&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

RobInOttawa · Post by **RobInOttawa** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:06 pm

Thanks "Schmakt" and "TimeWillTell"

I'm glad at least the very end of Unity 2000 #6 did not happen.

Thanks for the link to the older thread. This is really cool:

http://www.theartistschoice.com/rubinst ... #UNITY2000

Maybe I wouldn't completely leave the Valiant Universe had these issues been printed. However, I'm a strong supporter of the original VH1 Valiant universe and am currently reading the "pre-unity" issues for the first time in 12 years or so. If after Unity 2000, Acclaim decided NOT to return to the basics and focus on strong continuity and story telling, then I would not really be interested.

The idea that Unity 2000 would undo what was done before seems upsetting.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:02 pm

RobInOttawa wrote:Thanks "Schmakt" and "TimeWillTell"

I'm glad at least the very end of Unity 2000 #6 did not happen.

I agree, but the intriguing question is - if Unity 2000 had been completed and we then had no potential for a return of VH 1, then would this site exist: would any of us be bothered? Is it the hope for a return of VALIANT that spurs the site, or a fondness for comics from the past?

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:10 pm

leonmallett wrote:
RobInOttawa wrote:Thanks "Schmakt" and "TimeWillTell"

I'm glad at least the very end of Unity 2000 #6 did not happen.
I agree, but the intriguing question is - if Unity 2000 had been completed and we then had no potential for a return of VH 1, then would this site exist: would any of us be bothered? Is it the hope for a return of VALIANT that spurs the site, or a fondness for comics from the past?

Interesting question...

I believe the mutual fondness for early VALIANT is the core connection...
with all of us having different opinions as to where the fondness ends,
with regard to later VALIANT, Acclaim, later Acclaim, some Acclaim, etc.

Unity 2000 as a completed project would have served to establish what
VALIANT meant with respect to Acclaim... but I don't think it would have
"ended" the fondness for VALIANT that the fans have.

Most agree that whatever Acclaim is... it's not VALIANT.
The love for VALIANT pre-dates Acclaim, and those memories can't be "harmed"
by whatever might have followed.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:15 pm

Most agree that whatever Acclaim is... it's not VALIANT.
The love for VALIANT pre-dates Acclaim, and those memories can't be "harmed"
by whatever might have followed.

Fair point. The question I would then ask is about Jim Shooters intent. Was he determined to undo his own legacy, much like Bob Layton with X-O 68, so that others could not touch it?

Was he trying to craft an intersting (and possibly very brave) story?

Was he biting the hand that was feeding him?

Something else?

RobInOttawa · Post by **RobInOttawa** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:37 pm

I've been reading some back posts of "'TimeWillTell" and really like his opinions and insights to what happened.

The ValiantComics website and forum has done more than just rekindle my interest for the Valiant comics. It is very interesting to read the previous posts and gain new insights to the actual Valiant, Acclaim, and Valiant Entertainment companies.

However, the challenge I find myself in is that this is a very established forum that has been around for many years. It seems much easier to read postings than to post or reply to topics myself.

So much has been covered and to a great extent. Is it worthwhile to re-hash something that may have been talked about before and to a much larger extent?

With respect to "TimeWillTell"

I have a great fondness for Valiant comics (as I remember them, which is before Acclaim purchased the company), much more so than Marvel or DC, because of the great writing.

After reading several of his posts, I realize that I really should not discount Acclaim's contributions to the Valiant mythology without at least reading some of the VH2 and VH3 stuff. Perhaps Quantum & Woody, Dr. Tomorrow, and Shadowman Vol 3.

Reading the previous posts shows that people involved in Acclaim comics were in a challenging position to turn around their Valiant company purchase:

(1) They had paid double of what it was worth
(2) The comic industry was imploding all around them
(3) Way too many issues of a single comic were being printed, causing Comic Book Dealers to think that Valiant was a bad gamble. I remember seeing multiple Valiant comics in $1.00 bins around a year after I stopped reading them.
(4) The majority of the existing fan base was leaving or had left (myself included)

At least people like "TimeWillTell" tried to keep the Valiant characters alive, and had attempted to create new fans and keep existing fans happy until Acclaim went bankrupt.

Hopefully, if Valiant Entertainment does re-introduce the Valiant universe in the future, they will use what worked in the past and avoid the same mistakes that were made.

RobInOttawa · Post by **RobInOttawa** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:42 pm

As for Unity 2000. I really enjoyed reading the plot for issues 1 through 6, but was disappointed by the ending. The reason I started this post.

The Valiant VH1 universe should not have been discarded as if it never should have existed. Of course, Unity 2000 #4, #5, and #6 were never officially published so the ending doesn't really count.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:49 pm

RobInOttawa wrote: However, the challenge I find myself in is that this is a very established forum that has been around for many years. It seems much easier to read postings than to post or reply to topics myself.

So much has been covered and to a great extent. Is it worthwhile to re-hash something that may have been talked about before and to a much larger extent?

One of my core beliefs is... "Participate don't spectate"

I have found that the people that call this board home are very welcoming and inviting... I have had traded PMs and phone calls with many on this board (about comics, children, jobs, personal stuff, everything)... and ALL have been super cool! Many have gone out-of-their way to help me (and I know that I am not the only one that has experienced this)

So Rob I would reccomend you post anything that you would like, especially about VALIANT comics... even if it has been talked about before, there will be plenty who would love to discuss it again.

Start a new thread or search for an old thread... add your .02, and then someone else will add after you....

If nothing else, I've only been here a few months, and I love to discuss everything VALIANT... so post away.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:20 pm

RobInOttawa wrote:As for Unity 2000. I really enjoyed reading the plot for issues 1 through 6, but was disappointed by the ending. The reason I started this post.

The VALIANT VH1 universe should not have been discarded as if it never should have existed. Of course, Unity 2000 #4, #5, and #6 were never officially published so the ending doesn't really count.

A lot of people were unhappy with Unity 2000, but remember that Jim was brought in to fix the mess that Acclaim had made with the characters while still making Acclaim happy by keeping whatever they wanted still intact.

Personaly, I would like to see the series get finished either with the story Jim already laid out or preferably with him rewriting the last 3 issues again without Acclaim looking over his shoulder.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:45 am

Daniel Jackson wrote:
RobInOttawa wrote:As for Unity 2000. I really enjoyed reading the plot for issues 1 through 6, but was disappointed by the ending. The reason I started this post.

The VALIANT VH1 universe should not have been discarded as if it never should have existed. Of course, Unity 2000 #4, #5, and #6 were never officially published so the ending doesn't really count.
A lot of people were unhappy with Unity 2000, but remember that Jim was brought in to fix the mess that Acclaim had made with the characters while still making Acclaim happy by keeping whatever they wanted still intact.

Personaly, I would like to see the series get finished either with the story Jim already laid out or preferably with him rewriting the last 3 issues again without Acclaim looking over his shoulder.

But would it be the 'same' story with a different ending? Would JS want to rekindle involvement with VALIANT/VH 1? Plus wasn't UNITY a misnomer - surely something indicating widespread devastation would have been more approriate? Just curious...

steverino · Post by **steverino** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:34 am

Elveen wrote: Many have gone out-of-their way to help me (and I know that I am not the only one that has experienced this)

Got that right.

This is a great bunch of guys.

steverino · Post by **steverino** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:36 am

leonmallett wrote:
Daniel Jackson wrote:
RobInOttawa wrote:As for Unity 2000. I really enjoyed reading the plot for issues 1 through 6, but was disappointed by the ending. The reason I started this post.

The VALIANT VH1 universe should not have been discarded as if it never should have existed. Of course, Unity 2000 #4, #5, and #6 were never officially published so the ending doesn't really count.
A lot of people were unhappy with Unity 2000, but remember that Jim was brought in to fix the mess that Acclaim had made with the characters while still making Acclaim happy by keeping whatever they wanted still intact.

Personaly, I would like to see the series get finished either with the story Jim already laid out or preferably with him rewriting the last 3 issues again without Acclaim looking over his shoulder.
But would it be the 'same' story with a different ending? Would JS want to rekindle involvement with VALIANT/VH 1? Plus wasn't UNITY a misnomer - surely something indicating widespread devastation would have been more approriate? Just curious...

I personally think he would. I believe that he truly loved VH1 and that if it was on a strong foundation he would return to continue what he started.

But that's just my 2 cents.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:44 am

leonmallett wrote:
Most agree that whatever Acclaim is... it's not VALIANT.
The love for VALIANT pre-dates Acclaim, and those memories can't be "harmed"
by whatever might have followed.
Fair point. The question I would then ask is about Jim Shooters intent. Was he determined to undo his own legacy, much like Bob Layton with X-O 68, so that others could not touch it?

Was he trying to craft an intersting (and possibly very brave) story?

Was he biting the hand that was feeding him?

Something else?

This was a question that was discussed at length at the VALIANT panel discussion at the NYC con I believe on Sunday afternoon. I would think a transcript of that discussion would go a long way here. Does anyone know if anything like that exists? I know that Valerie recorded that Sunday session on audio and that Saturday session is on video somewhere.

Maybe John (svair) has some idea.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:32 am

wrunow wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
Most agree that whatever Acclaim is... it's not VALIANT.
The love for VALIANT pre-dates Acclaim, and those memories can't be "harmed"
by whatever might have followed.
Fair point. The question I would then ask is about Jim Shooters intent. Was he determined to undo his own legacy, much like Bob Layton with X-O 68, so that others could not touch it?

Was he trying to craft an intersting (and possibly very brave) story?

Was he biting the hand that was feeding him?

Something else?
This was a question that was discussed at length at the VALIANT panel discussion at the NYC con I believe on Sunday afternoon. I would think a transcript of that discussion would go a long way here. Does anyone know if anything like that exists? I know that Valerie recorded that Sunday session on audio and that Saturday session is on video somewhere.

Maybe John (svair) has some idea.

If not a transcript - could anyone post key points?

acc205 · Post by **acc205** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:48 pm

RobInOttawa wrote: (1) They had paid double of what it was worth

Hmm, not sure if thats true.

from a jim shooter artcile

In other business dealings, I ran into a guy named Enrique Senior, who was second in command of Allen & Company. He was actually the one selling Valiant, conducting the sale or at least in charge of it. He said, they were actually negotiating with people for about $250 million. It actually makes sense. An entertainment venture company that's making about $25 million in pre-tax profit and then multiple of 20. Discount it down to $10. $250 million isn't outrageous.

RobInOttawa · Post by **RobInOttawa** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:47 pm

In the June 1994 Defiant comics, Jim shooter writes:

... "Several years later, when Valiant was stolen out from under me, many people expressed their condolences, their support, their outrage - but as a practical matter the industry turned a blind eye. I wasn't surprised. Valiant was a big money maker for the distributors and retailers, an important advertiser to the trade publications, and well-entrenched with the fans. The trade press, if anything made apologies for the pirates"

... "It may interest you to know that on April 8, 1994 it was anounced that Valiant, or more properly Voyager Communications Inc., was sold by the pirates and weasels who stole it to Acclaim Entertainment for $65 million"

Bob Layton writes in his October 2004 archived posts (boblayton.com):

"Greg Fischbach, the C.E.O. of Acclaim Entertainment, offered 65 million for Valiant—with about a 50/50 split in cash and Acclaim stock, valued at the time at $16.00 per share. Ironically, if he had done his homework, Fischbach would have discovered that Valiant was only market valued at around 30 million. "

Acclaim paid double for Valiant than what it was worth at the time.

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:49 am

"Magic Ink"

And this was to be Mr. Shooter's F U to all those that destroied his universe, not the fans.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:15 am

Unblessed wrote:"Magic Ink"

And this was to be Mr. Shooter's F U to all those that destroied his universe, not the fans.

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense - 'magic ink'?

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:31 am

leonmallett wrote:
Unblessed wrote:"Magic Ink"

And this was to be Mr. Shooter's F U to all those that destroied his universe, not the fans.
Sorry if I'm being a bit dense - 'magic ink'?

Trust me - you are better off not knowing.

-slym (

)

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:28 am

slym2none wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
Unblessed wrote:"Magic Ink"

And this was to be Mr. Shooter's F U to all those that destroied his universe, not the fans.
Sorry if I'm being a bit dense - 'magic ink'?
Trust me - you are better off not knowing.

-slym ( )

I consider myself warned.