If Shooter remained@ Valiant, could Defiant characters too?

ValiantWonder · Post by **ValiantWonder** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:34 pm

Jim Shooter's creations for the Original Valiant Universe were truly unique and original. If he had remained with Valiant, could CHARLEMAGNE, WAR DANCER, AND THE WARRIORS OF PLASM eventually have become VALIANT characters as well?

Also: If the Original VALIANT Universe could be relaunched, should VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT try to LICENSE MAGNUS, TUROK and SOLAR once more??

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:52 pm

ValiantWonder wrote:If the Original VALIANT Universe could be relaunched, should VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT try to LICENSE MAGNUS, TUROK and SOLAR once more??

Yes. It would not be valiant without these characters.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:00 pm

I'm not sure if this is also true of the Defiant characters, but I do know that it's been said that some of the Broadway concepts like Fatale were initially going to be done at VALIANT.

Can you imagine Fatale at VALIANT? Would she have still had a demonic origin or would she have been a Harbinger?

Btw, besides owning Solar, Turok, and Magnus, Random House also owns the Broadway properties and I think they may also own the Defiant ones.

It be cool if they could all be mixed into one single universe.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:24 pm

My only concern that all the origins of Defiant and Valiant (and possibly Broadway to follow on from previous posts alluding to ownership if Solar et al came back) would be too disparate.

Solar, Magnus and Turok are musts in my book.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:26 pm

leonmallett wrote:My only concern that all the origins of Defiant and VALIANT (and possibly Broadway to follow on from previous posts alluding to ownership if Solar et al came back) would be too disparate.

Solar, Magnus and Turok are musts in my book.

Definitely, though I wouldn't mind if they can't be used right away. I'd like the new VALIANT Universe to establish itself before it begins to dwell on the past.

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:06 pm

I came up with an idea...tell me if you hate it. Also if anyone knows anything about copyright laws, please correct my errors.

Re: Turok, Solar, Magnus.
ok, first of all I never cared for Turok, don't find him essential to any story and consider he would be the most difficult (Read expensive) of the 3 to acquire. Neither Solar nor Magnus had hit video games.

Second, Gold Key (or whatever name owns those names/licenses those names) owns Magnus: Robot Fighter and Doctor Solar respectively.

They do not own Phil Seleski, Solar: Man of the Atom or The Destroyer. Do you really need the suit? Do you really need the name? And would the owners of the license of Doctor Solar have a leg to stand on if the new Valiant continued to use Phil Seleski with the Destroyer costume and called him Solar? Or even Sol.

They do not own the rights to John Torkelson and Kris Hathaway. Will it be that much of a stretch to just call him Torque instead of Magnus?

Valiant is not just the characters, V2 and Acclaim Comics proved that. It is the sensabilities. No closure to any of those universes is going to make everyone happy and I don't think you can go 'home' again. Start over, start with a gameplan and maybe lightning strikes twice.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:10 pm

Deja vu. You posted that before, lol.

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:12 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:Deja vu. You posted that before, lol.

Did I?

Well I wouldn't be suprised. I am rather a one trick pony, after all

I'm Batman!

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:27 pm

MProyas wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Deja vu. You posted that before, lol.
Did I?

Well I wouldn't be suprised. I am rather a one trick pony, after all

I'm Batman!

Heh

If not you then someone else did because I'm sure I've read thoughts along these lines before.

The Zodfather · Post by **The Zodfather** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:35 am

I think the concepts behind the defiant universe would not have appeared, especailly the Plasm world. The concepts were created to start a new comics universe, and were created BECAUSE they needed a reason for their new universe. If they had stayed at Valiant I dont believe they would have been exploring this angle. That said, we proably would have seen some version of the Defiant characters but tailored to the Valiant world. I do believe that the marketing that Jim used at Defiant would proably have been used at Valiant, for example X-O Manowar 0 would have probably been a trading card set ala Plasm 0. I also remember that the plan was to eventually launch a second universe independent of VH1, so it is possible that the Defiant universe sprang from the ideas Jim had about this second line.
The ZodFather

muzzsucker · Post by **muzzsucker** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:42 am

The Zodfather wrote:I think the concepts behind the defiant universe would not have appeared, especailly the Plasm world. The concepts were created to start a new comics universe, and were created BECAUSE they needed a reason for their new universe. If they had stayed at VALIANT I dont believe they would have been exploring this angle. That said, we proably would have seen some version of the Defiant characters but tailored to the VALIANT world. I do believe that the marketing that Jim used at Defiant would proably have been used at VALIANT, for example X-O Manowar 0 would have probably been a trading card set ala Plasm 0. I also remember that the plan was to eventually launch a second universe independent of VH1, so it is possible that the Defiant universe sprang from the ideas Jim had about this second line.
The ZodFather

I thought the #0 card set thing was forced on Defiant by the backers (some big card company?).

Also, in the Wizard Valiant special I think it said the second universe was going to be creator owned ala image.

Re: Solar, Magnus, Turok. I don't want Turok. If it means getting everything going again I can live without Magnus and Solar...only if I have to.

The Zodfather · Post by **The Zodfather** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:47 am

muzzsucker wrote:
The Zodfather wrote:I think the concepts behind the defiant universe would not have appeared, especailly the Plasm world. The concepts were created to start a new comics universe, and were created BECAUSE they needed a reason for their new universe. If they had stayed at VALIANT I dont believe they would have been exploring this angle. That said, we proably would have seen some version of the Defiant characters but tailored to the VALIANT world. I do believe that the marketing that Jim used at Defiant would proably have been used at VALIANT, for example X-O Manowar 0 would have probably been a trading card set ala Plasm 0. I also remember that the plan was to eventually launch a second universe independent of VH1, so it is possible that the Defiant universe sprang from the ideas Jim had about this second line.
The ZodFather
I thought the #0 card set thing was forced on Defiant by the backers (some big card company?).

Also, in the Wizard VALIANT special I think it said the second universe was going to be creator owned ala image.

Re: Solar, Magnus, Turok. I don't want Turok. If it means getting everything going again I can live without Magnus and Solar...only if I have to.

They did intend a creators line(and fullfilled with Windjammer) but i believe they alos intended a second universe, as for the card set you may be right I havent read too much about the birth of Defieant except for Jims editors pages in the books themselves. I was just postualting from memory
Zodfather

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:28 am

The Zodfather wrote:I think the concepts behind the defiant universe would not have appeared, especailly the Plasm world. The concepts were created to start a new comics universe, and were created BECAUSE they needed a reason for their new universe. If they had stayed at VALIANT I dont believe they would have been exploring this angle. That said, we proably would have seen some version of the Defiant characters but tailored to the VALIANT world. I do believe that the marketing that Jim used at Defiant would proably have been used at VALIANT, for example X-O Manowar 0 would have probably been a trading card set ala Plasm 0. I also remember that the plan was to eventually launch a second universe independent of VH1, so it is possible that the Defiant universe sprang from the ideas Jim had about this second line.
The ZodFather

I wonder how specific concepts would have been tailored to fit existing VALIANT concepts (maybe Good Guys as harbingers - Spellcaster as some kind of previously unknown omega level harbinger - okay thats stupid but you get the idea)?

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:44 am

leonmallett wrote:My only concern that all the origins of Defiant and VALIANT (and possibly Broadway to follow on from previous posts alluding to ownership if Solar et al came back) would be too disparate.

Solar, Magnus and Turok are musts in my book.

Whew.... almost lost it on you. Re-read your posts. Ok now.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:51 am

muzzsucker wrote:
The Zodfather wrote:I think the concepts behind the defiant universe would not have appeared, especailly the Plasm world. The concepts were created to start a new comics universe, and were created BECAUSE they needed a reason for their new universe. If they had stayed at VALIANT I dont believe they would have been exploring this angle. That said, we proably would have seen some version of the Defiant characters but tailored to the VALIANT world. I do believe that the marketing that Jim used at Defiant would proably have been used at VALIANT, for example X-O Manowar 0 would have probably been a trading card set ala Plasm 0. I also remember that the plan was to eventually launch a second universe independent of VH1, so it is possible that the Defiant universe sprang from the ideas Jim had about this second line.
The ZodFather
I thought the #0 card set thing was forced on Defiant by the backers (some big card company?).

Also, in the Wizard VALIANT special I think it said the second universe was going to be creator owned ala image.

Re: Solar, Magnus, Turok. I don't want Turok. If it means getting everything going again I can live without Magnus and Solar...only if I have to.

The big card company was The River Group. They came up with quite a few ideas. Many I think were shoved down Jim's throat. i.e. how stupid was it to make the #0 Plasm issue out of cards just to have it show up in Previews later ? Nobody then needed the cards to read the issue... I do not believe Jim would have signed off on that as well as many of the 'wacky' card things that were happening.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:19 am

Unblessed wrote:Whew.... almost lost it on you. Re-read your posts. Ok now.

Makes me concerned over what you thought I meant....

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If Shooter remained@ Valiant, could Defiant characters too?

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