Bob Layton's Website Updated For August

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:07 pm

Hi all-
This isn't really directly Valiant related, so I didn't know whether to post it in GD or EE...?

Anyway, I thought I'd pass this along for those who might be interested in Bob's projects & the Peacekeeper storyboards. Enjoy!

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Go to this URL for the latest updates: www.boblayton.com

AUGUST UPDATES:

*A new editorial by Bob on Marvel's mishandling of the Iron Man series.

*A Colony update with new production art

*A never-before-seen alternate version to the classic X-Factor #1 cover.

*a new batch of letters are answered on Bob's letters page

* Three more new Peacekeeper storyboards

* New links added and more.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:16 pm

I got this email and I am trying to figure how I got it to the email address that I got it at...any idea...was it an opt in thing or something?

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:40 pm

*A new editorial by Bob on Marvel's mishandling of the Iron Man series.

He's right on about Iron Man. And you have to respect his word on that, since that series' high-water marks all come (IMO) while he was working on it. All this PC stuff lately is a bunch of crap.

I would love to see Michelenie and Layton on that book. It has at times been absurdly bad for the last few years. And I've been reading it for 25 years.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:04 pm

Augh! Are you still reading that crap Depluto? I dumped my subscription down the toilet a couple of years ago. How about a courtesy flush?

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:17 pm

DawgPhan wrote:I got this email and I am trying to figure how I got it to the email address that I got it at...any idea...was it an opt in thing or something?

I think maybe Bob likes you, Dawg, in some 'bizarro' sort of way!

Although you never know, he may flood your email box with porn next week!

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:20 pm

Vault-Keeper wrote:
DawgPhan wrote:I got this email and I am trying to figure how I got it to the email address that I got it at...any idea...was it an opt in thing or something?
I think maybe Bob likes you, Dawg, in some 'bizarro' sort of way!

Although you never know, he may flood your email box with porn next week!

I would think that means he really likes me....I am just wondering where he got the email address since it is one that I very rarely give out...hmmm.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:25 pm

depluto wrote:
*A new editorial by Bob on Marvel's mishandling of the Iron Man series.
He's right on about Iron Man. And you have to respect his word on that, since that series' high-water marks all come (IMO) while he was working on it. All this PC stuff lately is a bunch of crap.

I would love to see Michelenie and Layton on that book. It has at times been absurdly bad for the last few years. And I've been reading it for 25 years.

Agreed! Amen!

Of course, being old school, I love my collection of Tales of Suspense. For some reason, the early Golden Armor issues just 'do it' for me! Plus there was a great lineup of Super Villians in the early years---Crimson Dynamo, Black Widow, Mandarin, Unicorn, Jack Frost, The Melter, Scarecrow, & Hawkeye! Great covers! Classic stuff!

PS---Did you see the great Iron Man artwork Bob has up for sale? Some great stuff there. Check out the unpublished cover from the 'Armor Wars'.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:43 pm

whetteon wrote:Augh! Are you still reading that crap Depluto? I dumped my subscription down the toilet a couple of years ago. How about a courtesy flush?

Iron Man, Spider-Man and Fantastic Four are the only comics I stick with no matter what. Spidey and FF have been dragged through the poop before and come back, but Iron Man, phew.

That storyline a little while ago where he was helping out prostitutes in trouble?

WTF? Reminded me of Eddie Murphy giving that transvestite a ride home a few years back.

And VK, you're right, Silver Age Iron Man is awesome. Tony was still a cad to the ladies and I loved those Cold War themes ... Titanium Man and Crimson Dynamo, etc.

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:37 pm

Did anyone else notice the Valiant related letter on Bob's e-mail reply page? Bob kept referring to an interview he did about Valiant and it's demise, I don't think I ever have read that piece, I'll have to take a look. Bob seems to have coined a new nickname for some of us, "Shooter Zombies", I guess referring to those fans who feel Shooter can do no wrong and others can do no right when it comes to Valiant comics. How many of you would consider yourselves diehard "Shooter Zombies"?

Eric Jackson · Post by **Eric Jackson** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:45 pm

yes, wasn't that letter sent in from a member of this very board.. big fan of his in fact?

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:59 pm

Sounds more like the name of a new mixed drink.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:52 pm

Eric Jackson wrote:yes, wasn't that letter sent in from a member of this very board.. big fan of his in fact?

That's funny as hell that Bob used a letter from Knightt!!!

His #-1 Fan!!

I've been waiting for Knightt to say something, but couldn't wait any longer! After what Knightt posted in his infamous "Apocalypse Now" reference to Bob's rear-end (long since deleted), I'm rolling on the floor that Bob used Chris' letter to address the Shooter situation.

I'm sure Knightt will see the fun in it also.

dino · Post by **dino** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:59 pm

Chris,

If Shooter zombies have read my Valiant interview and still continue to spew revisionist crap without any doubts—then, the truth really isn't going to matter to them.

As I clearly stated in the past—I can document everything I said. I kept daily journals throughout my entire time at Valiant.

However-- no one, except myself and a precious few others, is standing up against the revisionists and Shooter-zombies and saying “Hey—that’s NOT the way it happened.”

No one loved Valiant more that I did.

Not even Shooter.

At the end of the day, Shooter was willing to sell everyone that worked for him ‘down the river’ in order to wrest more control for himself.

In my opinion, his behavior, in and out of the office, was wholly unprofessional. Someone has to be willing to set the story straight. I've tried my best.

How do my other readers feel about the subject? Drop me an e-mail and I'll post it here next month.

The contents of my Valiant Interview on the News Page link is about everything else I have to say on the subject of the company's downfall.

Fair enough?

This is a side of the story I've never heard, albiet I've never listened for it either. It does sounds like Shooter and Bob can not be the anti christ he is made out to be. I'd love to see that article he speaks of, anyone have a link? What about more background on what Bob talks about? Steve?

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:13 pm

The term Shooter Zombies, is pretty cool, I think. Bob seemed (in the interview) to be ticked at Shooter for being unprofessional, missing deadlines, etc. I think most of us like Shooter for the characters and universe he created and got rolling. And I like a lot of Valiants post-Shooter.

I've worked with special talents who have odd work habits, and it can be frustrating. But once the product is done, deadlines don't matter anymore. It's just on to the next deadline.

Both Shooter and Layton are angry about the way things worked out, for pretty much the same reason: The suits took over. Bad deal any way you look at it.

And that was Knight on the letter page, getting the other side of the story.

And that last letter writer ... I think that actually was the Hulk.

CLA · Post by **CLA** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:20 pm

Brother J wrote:Did anyone else notice the Valiant related letter on Bob's e-mail reply page? Bob kept referring to an interview he did about Valiant and it's demise, I don't think I ever have read that piece, I'll have to take a look. Bob seems to have coined a new nickname for some of us, "Shooter Zombies", I guess referring to those fans who feel Shooter can do no wrong and others can do no right when it comes to Valiant comics. How many of you would consider yourselves diehard "Shooter Zombies"?

I don't consider myself a "Shooter Zombie." I like Shooter's work, but I don't know him personally, so I do not know what he did in Valiant.

I respect Mr. Shooter and Mr. Layton, but I don't know who to believe in the matter of Valiant.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:46 pm

dino wrote: This is a side of the story I've never heard, albiet I've never listened for it either. It does sounds like Shooter and Bob can not be the anti christ he is made out to be. I'd love to see that article he speaks of, anyone have a link? What about more background on what Bob talks about? Steve?

About a year ago, Bob granted an interview to the NEWSARAMA website concerning the his time at Valiant, first as co-creator of that universe and then, as Senior V.P. and Editor-In-Chief.

It was Bob's hope to clear up many misconceptions that prevail concerning those times. However, as it turned out, the reporter heavily edited the interview (taking only snippets out of context) in order to pursue a somewhat slanted, revisionist take on the history of Valiant.

As a public service to his fans, Bob is presenting the unedited transcript for your enjoyment. In it, Bob sets the record straight concerning the TRUE behind-the-scenes story of the rise and fall of that once-great comics company.

VALIANT REVISITED-a candid interview with Bob Layton

http://www.boblayton.com/valiant_revisited.htm

There ya go, Dino!

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:52 am

I personally have nothing against Bob Layton and have always liked his work. I do however find it somewhat troublesome that he was so vauge in both the letter to Chris and in the interview about what happened when Shooter got let go.

I think it was great that Chris tried to get the other side of the story. I think that is why some really beleive Jim's side. Jim tells a great deal about what happened and yet Bob doesn't. Of course Jim always was a great writer.

For me it is still in the air. The only ones who can really know what happened were the ones there.

I know on thing for sure, I really wish Valiant was still around.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:36 am

Vault-Keeper wrote:
dino wrote: This is a side of the story I've never heard, albiet I've never listened for it either. It does sounds like Shooter and Bob can not be the anti christ he is made out to be. I'd love to see that article he speaks of, anyone have a link? What about more background on what Bob talks about? Steve?
About a year ago, Bob granted an interview to the NEWSARAMA website concerning the his time at Valiant, first as co-creator of that universe and then, as Senior V.P. and Editor-In-Chief.

It was Bob's hope to clear up many misconceptions that prevail concerning those times. However, as it turned out, the reporter heavily edited the interview (taking only snippets out of context) in order to pursue a somewhat slanted, revisionist take on the history of Valiant.

As a public service to his fans, Bob is presenting the unedited transcript for your enjoyment. In it, Bob sets the record straight concerning the TRUE behind-the-scenes story of the rise and fall of that once-great comics company.

VALIANT REVISITED-a candid interview with Bob Layton

http://www.boblayton.com/valiant_revisited.htm

There ya go, Dino!

I already posted the actual news article the interview was given for and my comments on it in the "Bob Layton interview" thread.

What exactly is this "revisionist history" Layton keeps talking about? The only thing he mentions when he talks about it is that Shooter was cronically late with his work. So now we need to stop all that talk about how Shooter was always on time with everything. Oh, wait, no one ever talks about that. Hm. I still don't know what Layton's issue is.

I echo X-Omatics thoughts. I've always wondered what Bob's side was on the real issues where their really were conflicting versions of what happened like Shooter's departure. But how much he wants to say on the subject is a personal choice and I respect that.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:48 am

I believe that, regardless of conflicting interviews, that both Shooter & Layton were essentially robbed by the Powers That Be. Two things that can be blamed on Shooter are:

1) After being EIC at Marvel, he should have known better than to pick the investment partners that he did.

2) They should have never wasted their time & money on Nintendo or WWF comics. Having dealt with licensed properties before, once again, Shooter should have known better. The greed of obtaining Nintendo's mailing list was too much of a tease to resist, & it cost them BIG. The amount of time spent with redraws & approvals on the WWF books was also ridiculous & expensive.

Bob's story is a bit different after Jim left. It almost seems like Jim & Bob were played off each other by Massarsky, Melanie & her brother. I think that Massarsky was shrewd enough to know that Bob was a strong creative talent, able to keep the Valiant ball rolling as EIC (at least long enough to sell the company at a huge profit. Which is exactly what happened). By the time Bob realized that he had no real control, it was too late.

Bob said he hated Birthquake. I know that publishing titles twice a month is what made me quit at the time. This greed combined with poor Image-like stories is what killed V1.

In the long run, both Jim & Bob lost their Valiant money in court. The only 'winners' in the Valiant tragedy are Massarsky & Jon Hartz, IMO. Massarsky....that is where ALL fingers should point. I'm ashamed to share my first name with that shyter.---Steve G

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:49 pm

Vault-Keeper wrote:I believe that, regardless of conflicting interviews, that both Shooter & Layton were essentially robbed by the Powers That Be. Two things that can be blamed on Shooter are:

1) After being EIC at Marvel, he should have known better than to pick the investment partners that he did.

2) They should have never wasted their time & money on Nintendo or WWF comics. Having dealt with licensed properties before, once again, Shooter should have known better. The greed of obtaining Nintendo's mailing list was too much of a tease to resist, & it cost them BIG. The amount of time spent with redraws & approvals on the WWF books was also ridiculous & expensive.

Bob's story is a bit different after Jim left. It almost seems like Jim & Bob were played off each other by Massarsky, Melanie & her brother. I think that Massarsky was shrewd enough to know that Bob was a strong creative talent, able to keep the Valiant ball rolling as EIC (at least long enough to sell the company at a huge profit. Which is exactly what happened). By the time Bob realized that he had no real control, it was too late.

Bob said he hated Birthquake. I know that publishing titles twice a month is what made me quit at the time. This greed combined with poor Image-like stories is what killed V1.

In the long run, both Jim & Bob lost their Valiant money in court. The only 'winners' in the Valiant tragedy are Massarsky & Jon Hartz, IMO. Massarsky....that is where ALL fingers should point. I'm ashamed to share my first name with that shyter.---Steve G

As I understand it doing the Nintendo and WWF stuff was not Jim's fault. I think that he wanted to do superhero books, but was forced into the nintendo stuff because they had already spent a bunch of money on it..Anyway..I guess there are only a few people who really know what happened and the rest of us will never fully know the truth...

Bob Layton · Post by **Bob Layton** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:23 pm

<<As I understand it doing the Nintendo and WWF stuff was not Jim's fault. I think that he wanted to do superhero books, but was forced into the nintendo stuff because they had already spent a bunch of money on it..Anyway..I guess there are only a few people who really know what happened and the rest of us will never fully know the truth...>>

Wrong, Dawg.
I begged him not to do that crap. But "Big Shoot" was convinced that Valiant would make him SOOOOO much money from Nintendo that it would bankroll the super hero line without having to borrow more money from Triumph. When it went south, Jim spun the Nintendo fiasco as to make it look like he had little choice--but he was TOTALLY the one pushing it on the rest of us who signed on to do Magnus, Solar and the rest of the Gold Key heroes.
Do you really think I would have left Iron Man ( at the height of it's popularity, BTW) to go do Mario and Capt.N???!!

I was there, folks. And it was NEVER pretty, sorry to report.
Bob
bob.layton@boblayton.com

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:42 pm

::EDIT::

There were several posts that quickly ventured into "Oblivion Land"
that followed Mr. Layton's post. This topic is now locked and
if the discussion needs to continue, it can do so in another thread
-- which will probably wind up being deleted.

Since this topic is all about Bob Layton, I'm letting him get the last word,
and I've deleted the others posts that originally followed his.

(Well, technically, I just had the last word, but you know what I meant.)

::EDIT::

ValiantFans.com Board - Since 2004

Bob Layton's Website Updated For August

Bob Layton's Website Updated For August

Shooter Zombies? Are you one?

Re: Shooter Zombies? Are you one?