Were Defiant Comics Good?

Superchum · Post by **Superchum** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:23 pm

Hey! Thanks for the responses and the warm welcome.

I definitely think Defiant was a great read. And much of it still is. I just I dunno ... I think Dark Dominion could still work as a comic today. I guess that's what I see in the concept going back and rereading it.

Plus I miss the continuity. It was Shooter's forte really. Little things would happen in one book (be it Jack Boniface in X-0 4, or Prudence in Plasm 5) that would later take on much larger significance. I miss that in my comics today.

EDIT: My next post really ought to be a "My Valiant Story" since I have some history there and would totally explain why I chose The Visitor as my icon.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:40 am

Sounds like either I liked Defiant more than most of you guys or you guys liked the rest of the stuff being put out at the time in the industry better than I. Was Defiant as good as Shooter's work at Valiant or Broadway? No. But that doesn't stop Defiant from being an exceptional line of comics.

I'ld say Defiant was better any superhero universe being published at the time with the exception of Milestone. Of course, mind you, that wasn't that hard at the time since just about every decent talent in the industry had gone off to make their fortune doing creator owned and self published stuff, leaving the the mainstream comics from Big 5 and all the little start-up companies with slim pickings on creative talent. In my opinion, Defiant was one of the lines that made mainstream superhero comics worth picking up during that time period.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:11 pm

I do not consider Defiant superhero comics. I would lean more towards 'sci-fi' on many accounts. Perhaps that is why it didnt take off like a rocket. Valiant got away with it... Defiant did not. And what a shame. I would have REALLY liked to have learned where Warriors of Plasm was going.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:45 pm

Knightt wrote:I do not consider Defiant superhero comics. I would lean more towards 'sci-fi' on many accounts. Perhaps that is why it didnt take off like a rocket. Valiant got away with it... Defiant did not. And what a shame. I would have REALLY liked to have learned where Warriors of Plasm was going.

There were other factors. It was the boom/bust of the 90's. No company that started after Image survived. Hell not even a single character from any superhero universe introduced after that is still with us (unless you want to stretch the definitation of "a universe" to include creator owned stuff like Hellboy, Sin City, and Shi).

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:30 pm

True... but of note. The Ultraverse lasted quite a while (not including the time after being bought by Marvel). At least I thought so.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:15 pm

Knightt wrote:True... but of note. The Ultraverse lasted quite a while (not including the time after being bought by Marvel). At least I thought so.

So did Milestone (5 years).

Ultraverse had a lot of things going for it: it got in the superhero universe craze early (which was one of the factors to Valiant's success), they had most of the decent talent in the industry that hadn't started Image or gone "independent," it was a superhero universe from Malibu who was not only an established company in the industry but had also been involved with the launch of Image, and because of being on older comic company there were some people who knew how to run an indi company actually working there.

Of course they also didn't have a lot of the negative factors that Defiant had like the constant rallying against Shooter by those in the industry, the constant rumors right from the first few monthes of publishing that the company was going down, and the horror of having their one company that put out merchandise for them (also part owner) go wild soliciting tie-in card sets and then not publishing them!

But then again what it ultimately come down to is the day-to-day stuff business stuff. What type of relationship do you have with your financers (and how well can you BS them when things go wrong

)? What do they want out of your company and how much can they afford to put in (and lose)? Ultimately companies rise and fall on such things.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:55 pm

Milestone lasted five years ? Geez, and I have yet to this day read one issue.

dac55 · Post by **dac55** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:07 pm

Knightt wrote:Milestone lasted five years ? Geez, and I have yet to this day read one issue.

I have about 25 of these books, and you know I havent read any either. Am I missing something.What were the best ones to read. Todd

David

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:00 am

My only regret from dropping the comic hobby back in 94 was that I wasn't around to help support Defiant's efforts. When I dropped Valiant I dropped it all, including Defiant. Too bad, really. Defiant published some quality material. Easily better than what Valiant was publishing at the time. No Valiant fan should be without a full run of Defiant. It represents much of what made preunity Valiant so good.

I agree that it was far more sci-fi than superhero which was fine but it made it harder to connect too. Plasm was a good read, but the core title shouldn't have been one that revolved around a non-Earth culture. Just my opinion anyway. Reread a Plasm #0 binder while rereading my Valiants a few months ago and its still a great story.

The Ultraverse titles were pretty good reads also but lacked the "book feel" that preunitys and even the Defiants had. Definitely well worth checking out though. I enjoyed BWS's contributions to Ultraverse.

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:48 am

dac55 wrote:
Knightt wrote:Milestone lasted five years ? Geez, and I have yet to this day read one issue.
I have about 25 of these books, and you know I havent read any either. Am I missing something.What were the best ones to read. Todd

David

I think DC still occasionally used the Milestone imprint if any Milestone-related books are released. I know it was used as late as 2001 for the Static Shock mini series.

As for which books are best, I haven't read them all, but my favorite is Static. It's the only one I have a complete set of and it's a real enjoyable read. Kind of reminds me of early Spider-Man stories with a more modern day theme to them.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:51 am

Brother J wrote:
dac55 wrote:
Knightt wrote:Milestone lasted five years ? Geez, and I have yet to this day read one issue.
I have about 25 of these books, and you know I havent read any either. Am I missing something.What were the best ones to read. Todd

David
I think DC still occasionally used the Milestone imprint if any Milestone-related books are released. I know it was used as late as 2001 for the Static Shock mini series.

Unfortunately they don't. After Milestone ended DC let them do ONE Static miniseries to go along with the cartoon (a whole 4 issues). I think they may have released Icon and Static trades (of a few issues you can get for 50 cent in back issue bins) and that's it. There were promises of more but it never happened. It was really bizarre since DC has had an ongoing comic of nearly Warner Brothers cartoon BUT Static Shock.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:07 am

dac55 wrote:
Knightt wrote:Milestone lasted five years ? Geez, and I have yet to this day read one issue.
I have about 25 of these books, and you know I havent read any either. Am I missing something.What were the best ones to read. Todd

David

All the solo hero books come HIGHLY recommended. Icon, the whole series, is one of the best ongoing series ever put out. Static was great. Hardware was outstanding for the first 3 years. Xombi was an incredible series, it was like a GOOD Vertigo title.

The team books didn't click with me in execution (writing and art) but the character and concepts in them were top notch. Even the crossovers they did were great. Like Shooter at his best, Milestone broke a lot barriers that superhero comics don't normally cross, challenged the conventions of the genre, and really took mainstream comics to a new level.

fatback · Post by **fatback** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:25 pm

IAll the solo hero books come HIGHLY recommended. Icon, the whole series, is one of the best ongoing series ever put out. Static was great. Hardware was outstanding for the first 3 years. Xombi was an incredible series, it was like a GOOD Vertigo title.

The team books didn't click with me in execution (writing and art) but the character and concepts in them were top notch. Even the crossovers they did were great. Like Shooter at his best, Milestone broke a lot barriers that superhero comics don't normally cross, challenged the conventions of the genre, and really took mainstream comics

I 'm with you all the way Todd Luck. Hardware was my favorite and of the team books Sadow Cabinet was a darn good read in my opinion, I highly recommend it.

dac55 · Post by **dac55** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:52 pm

OK T.L, FB,and brother J I will give them a try. But if I dont like them I'm going to tell y'all.

David

fatback · Post by **fatback** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:44 pm

My spelling is getting as bad as Davids, thats Shadow Cabinet. Sorry about the dig David

fatback · Post by **fatback** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:47 pm

Gonna give Defiant and Tekno Universes a whirl , just got a few Tekno's on e-bay and picked up a few Defiants on the cheap. Didn't care for Defiant when it first came out but gonna give it a try one more time.

dac55 · Post by **dac55** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:33 pm

I have some extras of Defiant if you need them.

David

fatback · Post by **fatback** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:38 pm

Thanks David and I'll let you know on those Defiant titles .

dac55 · Post by **dac55** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:09 pm

fatback wrote:My spelling is getting as bad as Davids, thats Shadow Cabinet. Sorry about the dig David

Are any of y'all looking for any of the Milestone Platinum books I seen some for $ 4.95 .

David

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:30 am

dac55 wrote:
fatback wrote:My spelling is getting as bad as Davids, thats Shadow Cabinet. Sorry about the dig David
Are any of y'all looking for any of the Milestone Platinum books I seen some for $ 4.95 .

David

I buy the Milestone Platinums when I find them cheap, I have three of the Static #1 and I think a couple others.

dac55 · Post by **dac55** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:31 pm

I guess I should have posted what he had.

Xombi # 1
Hardware # 1
Static # 1

It was 4.95 each with 5.00 shipping for up to 10 books . Shipping not to bad if you buy like 10 books or thats what I think. But what do I know I cant spell.

David

cobra_commander · Post by **cobra_commander** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:48 am

Jay Tomio wrote:Frankly, I thought Dark Dominion was one of the better comics on the market. I remember vividly bowing in homage at the TV as I saw Jim Shooter debuting Defiant on QVC (I purchased autographed Warriors of Plasm).

I don't care what anyone say about Shooter; this guy simply knows how to put out a quality line of comics, and as a fan, frankly that's my bottom line.

Here, here. Well said

Technique · Post by **Technique** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:09 am

Jay Tomio wrote:Frankly, I thought Dark Dominion was one of the better comics on the market. I remember vividly bowing in homage at the TV as I saw Jim Shooter debuting Defiant on QVC (I purchased autographed Warriors of Plasm).

I don't care what anyone say about Shooter; this guy simply knows how to put out a quality line of comics, and as a fan, frankly that's my bottom line.

Dark Dominion was very good. It's definitely my favorite from the Defiant line. It really had the potential to do a lot of new things.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:25 pm

I was just getting into Warriors of Plasm and then it got kanked... It was by far my favorite.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:47 pm

if schism had finished, i'd probably hold that higher than unity and pre-unity. i thought defiant was a great universe, with a bunch of different books to appeal to a wide range of people. even with plot threads that shooter would have quickly resolved, the universe he created with defiant was open to so many possibilities

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