"Unity" question - "time is not absolute"

[jsbt]

Hello; it's the newbie again, thanks for tolerating me...

Since I originally came to Valiant as a kid just post-Unity, and since at the time (at the height of the company's popularity) issues of it were very scarce, I was never really able to get into it back then despite tracking down the trades of Rai, Harbinger, X-O, etc. I am reading through Unity now, and it's excellent. I've noticed it in early Valiant before but never put my finger on it, and now I do - there seems to me to be an irreverent yet very adult flavor to Shooter's writing and dialogue in particular, something similar to what you now see in the work of, say, Morrison or even Johns today(though they're much more sparse in the actual dialogue content) , particularly in scenes with, say, Albert drunkenly whining about hating his "mother" and wanting to rent breakable Bims to take his rage out on, or Geoff chatting blithely about and with Solar's severed hand. It's a whimsical handling of the fantastic, and yet also subversively adult. At least, I think so. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong.

Anyway, down to the question: I am not as familiar with Erica Pierce as I should be, since I do not yet have the Alpha/Omega trade of Solar. Erica (or should I say "the other Erica?" Isn't that her?) talks about how Solar's influence has deeply damaged the timestream and time and space itself - is that his black hole, or whatever? And am I to understand that when she talks about time not being absolute, she is condemning this? It seems as though Erica praises the Lost Land for being "absolute," where all eras flow as one, disjointed and in the same place, yet hates the "real world," where time flows logically, or as she says, "coexists." What am I missing? Is she just insane, or is it something more?

Thanks much.

[greg]

After a post like that, I'm not sure you get to call yourself a "newbie".

Since you've asked for "spoilers", I think you'll be getting "spoilers" as replies...
so here are a few:

Dr. Erica Pierce was a colleague of Dr. Phil Seleski at the nuclear power plant
where "the accident" happened that made Dr. Phil into (Dr.) Solar.
The accident itself was the black hole you mentioned, which killed
the Earth, the solar sytem, the galaxy, and the universe... erased existence.
According to Dr. Pierce, that was the real end of the world.

Solar caused the universe to be re-established, though not 100% the same,
and it's almost as if the accident didn't happen. Except Solar is Solar now,
and Dr. Pierce is also a powerful entity as a result.

Erica's goal was to put everything back. The real world ended? So be it.
It's not right that Solar's "artificial" world is still spinning... it's fake.
Erica wanted to unmake existence because existence should have ended.

The Lost Land exists outside of time, so she should be able to work on
her "final solution" for thousands of years without being disturbed.
Additionally, she can be the all-powerful ruler of many without affecting
the "reality" of the Earth itself. It's her own heaven. (...or since she plans
the destruction of everyone and everything, it's her throne of hell.)

Two people are given the power of God and they choose opposite sides.
It's interesting which one wears the red suit.

[Vault-Keeper]

Welcome, jsbt! The answers are complex. You should read issues #1-10 of Solar for the whole Pierce story, or at least the Solar: Second Death TPB (along with the Alpha & Omega TPB). Seaborn did a good job explaining it in the VCB. Also read the threads in the Re-Reading forum.---Steve

[Vault-Keeper]

...or just read Greg's post...

Good job, Greg! You got right to the point! ---Steve

[Daniel Jackson]

I've noticed it in early Valiant before but never put my finger on it, and now I do - there seems to me to be an irreverent yet very adult flavor to Shooter's writing and dialogue

This is why the pre-unity issues still remain the most sought after. Jim's writing was far superior to what happened after his dismissal. That was a great era for comics and I would definitely equate it with the birth of the Marvel superhero universe.

[jsbt]

But Erica and all her syncophants keep talking about achieving "unity" and remaking the universe "properly" - that doesn't sound like she wants to end it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

[Vault-Keeper]

I've noticed it in early Valiant before but never put my finger on it, and now I do - there seems to me to be an irreverent yet very adult flavor to Shooter's writing and dialogue

This is why the pre-unity issues still remain the most sought after. Jim's writing was far superior to what happened after his dismissal. That was a great era for comics and I would definitely equate it with the birth of the Marvel superhero universe.

Shooter's DEFIANT & BROADWAY comics were also very good reads, even though no story arcs were ever completed.---Steve

[jsbt]

Yeah, I read a little Plasm and Good Guys when I was younger because I knew Shooter was behind it. Of course, it died off.

[greg]

But Erica and all her syncophants keep talking about achieving "unity" and remaking the universe "properly" - that doesn't sound like she wants to end it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

They probably wouldn't work so hard if they knew they were going to die.

[dave]

i always thought she was just going to "remake" the earth-without solar, and that she would be in charge of everything...she would've killed off most of the male population eventually-i think.

shooter definately tackled some touchy subjects, and delved alot deeper into the psyche of his characters-but later when they just started wailing on each other-that was pretty cool too...mmmm splash pages...

[Daniel Jackson]

I've noticed it in early Valiant before but never put my finger on it, and now I do - there seems to me to be an irreverent yet very adult flavor to Shooter's writing and dialogue

This is why the pre-unity issues still remain the most sought after. Jim's writing was far superior to what happened after his dismissal. That was a great era for comics and I would definitely equate it with the birth of the Marvel superhero universe.

Shooter's DEFIANT & BROADWAY comics were also very good reads, even though no story arcs were ever completed.---Steve

I collected those as well. It really bummed me out when both stopped making comics. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for Shooter to try it again (hopefully as part of the new Valiant).

[dave]

it is truly a pity that he's not involved in anything....i guess sometimes you just feel like you've been beating your head against a wall, and it'll probably feel better once you stop-so you do. can't say i blame him; but selfishly, i'd like to see him have another go at it!

[Daniel Jackson]

it is truly a pity that he's not involved in anything....i guess sometimes you just feel like you've been beating your head against a wall, and it'll probably feel better once you stop-so you do. can't say i blame him; but selfishly, i'd like to see him have another go at it!

Hopefully his love for storytelling will outweigh the negative aspects he has experienced with the biz over the years.

[jk20000]

Yeah, I read a little Plasm and Good Guys when I was younger because I knew Shooter was behind it. Of course, it died off.

You should really read Alpha & Omega it is fantastic. I think someone has it scanned and posted on a site but I don't have the link.

Greg's answer is correct and I would add two things to it.

1. When Phil recreated the world he started at a point just before the accident. I believe his recreating the world and the choice of time period was subconscious.

2. Erica wanted to erase 'fake' existence AND start again fresh.

Her reason's for erasing existence are quite complicated and two fold.

-On one had she believed that phil's new reality was fake and that it shouldn't be allowed to continue.

-On the other hand (and this is another reason why Shooter was such a great writer and why the Valiant books are still popular today) she was troubled by severe psychological problems. If I remember right, she was abused by her father as a child. Ultimately, she murdered him. Because of this she has a deep hatred and distrust of males. She also believes herself to be ugly and evil (a murderer). We see this manifest itself in alpha and omega when Phil takes her to unreality, she calls herself 'dirty', 'murderer' etc. She also kills her husband when he attacks her (I think this was Solar 11 or 12) further troubling her. Her desire to erase existence is a physical desire to erase her own past, her own memories. She unconsciously hopes that by erasing her past (and by doing so, erasing all existence) she will be able to forget the abuse, move on and finally be happy. Of course she is misguided in this thinking. Shooter's choice of punishment for her at the end of unity is very fitting when you take this into account.

I hope this helps. if I made any errors I hope others will correct me.

[mints]

I seem to remember an appropriation of the "I have a dream where I am falling" segment of the Unity storyline in Shadowman by Master Darque. I always wondered if there was supposed to be some sort of connection between Darque and Pierce, but I can't remember that ever getting explored.

[ManofTheAtom]

Anyway, down to the question: I am not as familiar with Erica Pierce as I should be, since I do not yet have the Alpha/Omega trade of Solar.

Read it here

http://manoftheatom.fortunecity.com/cce ... ction.html

[ManofTheAtom]

I seem to remember an appropriation of the "I have a dream where I am falling" segment of the Unity storyline in Shadowman by Master Darque. I always wondered if there was supposed to be some sort of connection between Darque and Pierce, but I can't remember that ever getting explored.

In Secret Weapons #1-#3 Darque tried to free Pierce from the wormhole Solar left her in. In the end he became trapped there with her, taking her father's place in her recurring nightmare.

[Will]

In A+O:

On page 11 where Phil is falling into the reactor there is somebody reaching for him.

Are we assuming that's Erica?

[ManofTheAtom]

I wouldn't say that she's reaching for him but yeah, the other person in the radiation suit is the Alpha & Omega Erica, the same one who killed the second Erica and took Albert with her, then became MotherGod.

Check the second panels on pages 7 and 8 and you'll see the second individual in the radiation suit.

http://manoftheatom.fortunecity.com/ccenter/page7.html
http://manoftheatom.fortunecity.com/ccenter/page8.html

[Todd Luck]

I seem to remember an appropriation of the "I have a dream where I am falling" segment of the Unity storyline in Shadowman by Master Darque. I always wondered if there was supposed to be some sort of connection between Darque and Pierce, but I can't remember that ever getting explored.

In Secret Weapons #1-#3 Darque tried to free Pierce from the wormhole Solar left her in. In the end he became trapped there with her, taking her father's place in her recurring nightmare.

It's Secret Weapons 1-2.

Darque was never trapped in the wormhole with Erica. He never went there in the first place. He was touching her mind at several points in the story. But the story never says who she is. She's refered to as a "demon" whose trapped outside reality who hates Solar but we know nothing more than that.

The ending is the big reveal, the story's twist, where were we finally see what Darque sees: the memory that loops back through Erica's mind repeatedly as she's trapped in unreality. At that point old fans immediately know the demon Darque almost freed was Mothergod. New readers, of course, were completely lost .

[ManofTheAtom]

But at the end of the issue the father figure has Darque's tattoos.

[Todd Luck]

But at the end of the issue the father figure has Darque's tattoos.

No.

We see the thing playing through Erica's head as it appeared at the end of Unity. Then in the last panel we see Darque in shadow to tell us this is from the mind of the "demon" he's been talking to.

Yes, by putting him in shadow in a similar art style (you'll notice St. Pierre used several through out the story) the artist is drawing an artistic parrallel between the monster in Erica's head (her father) and the monster of this story (Darque). He also uses the line "But it never goes away..." as a double meaning. It's from Erica's head but it also foreshadows that Darque will try to get out her out agian. It's ironic but that's about it.

Reading the issue their's no reason for him to get stuck in Erica's head (and no place in story for it to happen) nor is their any mention of it in Darque's other appearances.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the eerie orange background on the last panel is a visual cue that Darque's communing with the demon back at his hideout. It's the exact same background from the ceremony that ended issue one where he's talking with the demon (the orange clouds are from whatever Darque's burning as part of the ceremony)

[jsbt]

I was reading through Alpha/Omega at that site; fascinating. Now, is that the whole trade of the first ten issues or whatever, or is it just supposed to be Solar #0? Because it's way over twenty pages.

[CACTVS]

It's Solar #0.

[dave]

there was one other aspect of erica's psychosis i wanted to mention...she also had some severe self loathing in regards to being "weak". when she kills of the "other" erica she mentions that. i think this would stem from the helpless feelings she must've had as a child, wanting the abuse to stop, but being unable to do anything about it. her quest for power and "restarting" reality would/might (in her mind) erase her weakness and demonstrate her strength.

the fact that we can go on and on about the ramifications of this story speaks volumes of the writing. very intricate. the only thing that could've made it better would have been if he coulda somehow used the x-o bicycle...