Auction Hall of Shame!

Technique · Post by **Technique** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:44 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:And for the record, Paypal is a nasty, stupid, poorly run subsidiary of eBay. Do not trust Paypal for ONE SINGLE SECOND. I have horror stories, as do lots of people, about how Paypal has screwed people around.

It's simply the ONLY REAL CHOICE AVAILABLE currently (by DESIGN) to pay for most auctions on eBay.

So...be wise, and if you want more info, check out:

www.paypalsucks.com

Exactly.

Always pay by credit card, but not a Paypal credit card. I imagine there would be some extra resistance to chargebacks.

Richv1 · Post by **Richv1** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:00 pm

What I hate are all the e-mails I get saying someone else is trying to access my account on paypal. And I have to go to this site and give them all my info or my account will be cancelled. I have never went to the site and never will. I have paypal's home page and if I change anything it will be from there. To many people are always trying to con people.

myron · Post by **myron** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:35 pm

Richv1 wrote:What I hate are all the e-mails I get saying someone else is trying to access my account on paypal. And I have to go to this site and give them all my info or my account will be cancelled. I have never went to the site and never will. I have paypal's home page and if I change anything it will be from there. To many people are always trying to con people.

yup...those are all phishing scams...stay away from them...

Richv1 · Post by **Richv1** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:42 pm

Its funny as I was posting that I got another one in my e-mail.
They must have some kind of ottomatic thing that sends them out at random to posibble e-mail addresses.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:37 pm

Richv1 wrote: They must have some kind of ottomatic thing that sends them out at random to posibble e-mail addresses.

They do.

Richv1 · Post by **Richv1** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:28 pm

There are so many different ones to all the scams:
Ones from Banks I don't bank at.
Winning lotteries.
People wanting help to get $30 million into the country.
Is anyone stupid enough to believe these?

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:36 pm

Richv1 wrote:There are so many different ones to all the scams:
Ones from Banks I don't bank at.
Winning lotteries.
People wanting help to get $30 million into the country.
Is anyone stupid enough to believe these?

You would probably be surprised how many people are gullible enough to fall for stuff like that.

childres · Post by **childres** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:45 pm

Enough so they keep on sending the scams out all the time!

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:06 pm

Technique wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:And for the record, Paypal is a nasty, stupid, poorly run subsidiary of eBay. Do not trust Paypal for ONE SINGLE SECOND. I have horror stories, as do lots of people, about how Paypal has screwed people around.

It's simply the ONLY REAL CHOICE AVAILABLE currently (by DESIGN) to pay for most auctions on eBay.

So...be wise, and if you want more info, check out:

www.paypalsucks.com
Exactly.

Always pay by credit card, but not a Paypal credit card. I imagine there would be some extra resistance to chargebacks.

Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever pay for a Paypal purchase with A. a Paypal balance; B. an instant transfer from your bank account; C. a Paypal credit card.

IT....IS....A....TRAP.

That's like....<ponders good analogy>....I'll come back later for this one.....it's 12:04 PST.....

Technique · Post by **Technique** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:12 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:...

That's like....<ponders good analogy>....I'll come back later for this one.....it's 12:04 PST.....

I can't think of a good analogy either.

It should be common sense though.

It would be kind of like hiring an attorney to represent you in a large claim against the firm that he is a partner in.

That's not very good but it's the best I have for now. Anyone else have a better one?

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:20 pm

I guess I've been lucky with PayPal...

-slym

Technique · Post by **Technique** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:25 pm

slym2none wrote:I guess I've been lucky with PayPal...

-slym

I can't say that I've had a problem with them either.

The thing is to not put them in a position where they "own" you. Paying with a balance, from your bank account, or with THEIR credit card puts them in that position. They can then do whatever they want, with no recourse, if you have a transaction go bad.

Paying with a quality credit card through Paypal puts you in the strongest position if things go bad.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:13 pm

Technique wrote:
slym2none wrote:I guess I've been lucky with PayPal...

-slym
I can't say that I've had a problem with them either.

The thing is to not put them in a position where they "own" you. Paying with a balance, from your bank account, or with THEIR credit card puts them in that position. They can then do whatever they want, with no recourse, if you have a transaction go bad.

Paying with a quality credit card through Paypal puts you in the strongest position if things go bad.

That's what I mean, though - I always pay with my PayPal balance. If I don't have the money there to cover, I don't buy anything.

-slym

Technique · Post by **Technique** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:23 pm

slym2none wrote:
Technique wrote:
slym2none wrote:I guess I've been lucky with PayPal...

-slym
I can't say that I've had a problem with them either.

The thing is to not put them in a position where they "own" you. Paying with a balance, from your bank account, or with THEIR credit card puts them in that position. They can then do whatever they want, with no recourse, if you have a transaction go bad.

Paying with a quality credit card through Paypal puts you in the strongest position if things go bad.

That's what I mean, though - I always pay with my PayPal balance. If I don't have the money there to cover, I don't buy anything.

-slym

By paying that way you have the same amount of protection as someone sending cash in the mail.

It really comes down to trusting the seller. If you trust them then you are probably OK. BUT, like the auction that started this, sellers can go bad.

I do not hesitate to bid on 0 feedback sellers's auctions so long as they take Paypal. I don't even ask if they accept credit card payments through Paypal. I just assume that they do. If they don't then the money just sits there until they accept it or the transaction doesn't happen.

I have gotten some GREAT deals by bidding on low feedback sellers that accept Paypal. I know that my credit card has my back.

Discover doesn't have your back, but that's a different story.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:27 pm

Technique wrote:By paying that way you have the same amount of protection as someone sending cash in the mail

So, one shouldn't do that, either???

*J/K*

-slym (has to be lucky somewhere to make up for the lack of luck with women and cards)

Richv1 · Post by **Richv1** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:34 pm

So what is the safest way to buy something from e-bay? By using your own credit card through paypal?

Technique · Post by **Technique** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:37 pm

Richv1 wrote:So what is the safest way to buy something from e-bay? By using your own credit card through paypal?

Yes!

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:45 pm

myron wrote:
Richv1 wrote:What I hate are all the e-mails I get saying someone else is trying to access my account on paypal. And I have to go to this site and give them all my info or my account will be cancelled. I have never went to the site and never will. I have paypal's home page and if I change anything it will be from there. To many people are always trying to con people.
yup...those are all phishing scams...stay away from them...

Damn that Phish! Always with the e-mail scams....aren't they supposed to be on tour??

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:22 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
myron wrote:
Richv1 wrote:What I hate are all the e-mails I get saying someone else is trying to access my account on paypal. And I have to go to this site and give them all my info or my account will be cancelled. I have never went to the site and never will. I have paypal's home page and if I change anything it will be from there. To many people are always trying to con people.
yup...those are all phishing scams...stay away from them...
Damn that Phish! Always with the e-mail scams....aren't they supposed to be on tour??

Ask dawg.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:30 pm

Technique wrote:
slym2none wrote:I guess I've been lucky with PayPal...

-slym
I can't say that I've had a problem with them either.

The thing is to not put them in a position where they "own" you. Paying with a balance, from your bank account, or with THEIR credit card puts them in that position. They can then do whatever they want, with no recourse, if you have a transaction go bad.

Paying with a quality credit card through Paypal puts you in the strongest position if things go bad.

If you have not had a problem with Paypal, you are indeed lucky.

If you have no problems with any seller, GREAT! WONDERFUL! You are indeed lucky. However....

1. If you are a seller and someone pays you with a fraudulent credit card, Paypal CAN and HAS locked the SELLER'S account until their "investigation", which can take up to 180 days, is complete.

....EVEN THOUGH THE SELLER HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

That's right, if you have ANY amount of money in your Paypal account (especially if you treat it like a bank account, WHICH THEY ENCOURAGE BY OFFERING AN INTEREST RATE) you can have that money LOCKED AWAY until/if Paypal finishes their investigation.

THIS HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED, and sellers had THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in their account.

Can you imagine how catastrophic that could be?

2. Not only can they freeze your account, but you can CONTINUE TO RECEIVE MONEY FROM BUYERS WHILE YOUR ACCOUNT IS FROZEN. Who gets the interest off all that "frozen" money? Paypal.

3. Paypal CAN and HAS cleaned out BANK accounts linked to Paypal based on THEIR DECISION that you owe them money. THIS IS AGAINST THE LAW, but that hasn't stopped Paypal from doing it.

4. Paypal will deny and HAS DENIED ANY and ALL claims based on ANY "not as described" claims. THAT INCLUDES SELLERS SHIPPING EMPTY BOXES. If the seller can prove they shipped SOMETHING...ANYTHING...EVEN a PICTURE of the item you bought...YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK.

4.5 If you paid with your Paypal account balance, an instant transfer from your bank, or your Paypal credit card, and you're the victim of fraud...THERE IS NOTHING PAYPAL WILL DO TO HELP YOU. NOTHING.

5. If you, a seller, ship to a NON-confirmed buyer, and the buyer files a chargeback, YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE. Paypal will TAKE the money from you, and you're out. If you don't HAVE the money in your paypal account, they will try to STEAL it from your bank account.

6. Ever try to call Paypal? Before about 2002, YOU COULD NOT CALL THEM. Even NOW, they will not give you any more information than they ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO. They HID their physical address, because people were visiting their HQ in Omaha and trying to deal with them.

7. Paypal shileded itself from banking laws by pretending to be a financial CLEARING HOUSE (only transferring money, not having a brick and mortar building, etc.) only...which they obviously are not.

8. Their "goods insurance" only covers the final bid, and not ANY OF THE ADDITIONAL S&H (plus the insurance charge, of course, which is a HUGE percentage of the bid) associated with the transaction. That is, if someone advertises a 100 book lot of "NM/MINT!!!" books that show up coverless (don't laugh, it's happened) and you "bought" the Paypal insurance....not only are you out the $10-$30 it cost to ship to YOU, but you're out the amount it costs to ship back to Paypal.....so you got your BID amount back, but at what cost?

9. They have had Federal Court JUDGEMENTS against them, like this one: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... e=business

10. If you file "too many" claims, they will send you harassing e-mails to try and intimidate you to stop.

11. That doesn't even include the laughable idiocy such as the e-mail I received from eBay stating I had to "return" all the books in a $27 transaction for an $8.50 refund. Yes, you read that right. $27 transaction. $8.50 refund. Paypal denied the claim because....DUH...I refused. These people can't even DO SIMPLE MATH.

THIS IS JUST SOME OF THE STUNTS PAYPAL HAS PULLED.

All of this stuff was learned AFTER the fact, through trial and error. Paypal WAS NOT forthcoming about ANY of this, and it's only through the community of the internet that people learned all of this and warned everyone. Paypal continues to lie and present itself as a "safe way to pay"....it is ANYTHING BUT.

Safe way to pay? Paypal is no safer than sending a money order through the mail. NOT ONE BIT SAFER. In fact, they are LESS SAFE than sending a money order. They are MORE insidious, because they will play the waiting game, they can steal your OTHER money, they can LOCK UP YOUR RIGHTFUL money....it's a sham, they've faced judgement after judgement after judgement, and they continue to do it.

Paypal just finished a large settlement from class action suits...I got $14 and change out of it.

So again...if you've NEVER had a problem with Paypal, count your lucky stars. All of the above is absolutely documented true, HAS happened, and likely will CONTINUE to happen, because Paypal, and it's parent company, eBay, are CORRUPT corporations who think of nothing but the bottom line.

They make Halliburton and Worldcomm look like Disney.

Advice:

1. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS pay with an INDEPENDENT credit card for EVERYTHING on eBay, even though Paypal makes you go through the "are you SURE you want to pay with your CC?" nonsense. I have HEARD that Amex has the same sort of policy regarding "not as described" situations, so BE CAREFUL and FIND OUT from your CC Co or bank what their fraud policy is!

2. NEVER, EVER, EVER keep a balance in your Paypal account, for ANY reason. Always move ANY balance to your OWN bank account ASAP.

3. Link an account with LITTLE MONEY to your Paypal account, so that, if Paypal decides to VIOLATE THE LAW and clean you out, you won't lose much, if anything.

Yes, it's a pain, but it could protect you from catastrophic loss if you do business with Paypal frequently.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:31 pm

slym2none wrote:
Technique wrote:
slym2none wrote:I guess I've been lucky with PayPal...

-slym
I can't say that I've had a problem with them either.

The thing is to not put them in a position where they "own" you. Paying with a balance, from your bank account, or with THEIR credit card puts them in that position. They can then do whatever they want, with no recourse, if you have a transaction go bad.

Paying with a quality credit card through Paypal puts you in the strongest position if things go bad.

That's what I mean, though - I always pay with my PayPal balance. If I don't have the money there to cover, I don't buy anything.

-slym

VERY dangerous game, slym. If nothing ever goes wrong, great, but if it does....yeesh. You're screwed.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:34 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
slym2none wrote:
Technique wrote:
slym2none wrote:I guess I've been lucky with PayPal...

-slym
I can't say that I've had a problem with them either.

The thing is to not put them in a position where they "own" you. Paying with a balance, from your bank account, or with THEIR credit card puts them in that position. They can then do whatever they want, with no recourse, if you have a transaction go bad.

Paying with a quality credit card through Paypal puts you in the strongest position if things go bad.

That's what I mean, though - I always pay with my PayPal balance. If I don't have the money there to cover, I don't buy anything.

-slym
VERY dangerous game, slym. If nothing ever goes wrong, great, but if it does....yeesh. You're screwed.

You need to set up Paypal account with a card like American Express.

Richv1 · Post by **Richv1** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:16 pm

Well I have never had a problem with paypal or e-bay or any seller yet. So I guess I've been lucky. I only use it for small dollar items under $ 20. and only a few times a year.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:22 pm

Richv1 wrote:Well I have never had a problem with paypal or e-bay or any seller yet. So I guess I've been lucky. I only use it for small dollar items under $ 20. and only a few times a year.

That's nice.

You're lucky. Or, you could just be the kinda person that isn't bothered when you get Fine books graded NM, or don't think it's worth the hassle to pursue.

And believe me, if you are, you are in the VAST majority, so you have plenty of company.

But when you do as much business on eBay as I do, you run into problems....it's just a matter of time and averages.

And SOMEONE'S gotta be an advocate.

Richv1 · Post by **Richv1** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:40 pm

So far the comics I've bought have been in the condition that was advertised. I've ben buying and collecting comics for around 25 years now so I know something about judging the condition of them.