New Universe - Jim Shooter, Star Brand and Misc Rambling

[rkjock1]

Okay, here's what I don't get...

Now Shooter created the Star Brand concept, and it's not that I don't like the older stories, but... the whole alien old man attacking him for no discernable reason concept just seemed to go nowhere and got more confusing as it dragged along. And the book itself just seemed to lack any kind of real focus. I liked the stories where Ken befriended the dying kid in the latter part of the first year, but that seemed to be a bright spot in an otherwise dim run.

Now... compare that with Byrne's run on the title and the whole Pitt event and tell me please why it is that Shooter's run is the one so many people on the board here have cited as a bright spot in the New U??

Overall, the whole line improved greatly AFTER Shooter left. And I say this as someone who loves the New Universe. But even now re-reading the books, nearly all of them (Psi-Force and DP7 being the exceptions, but just barely) lacked any cohesive direction whatsoever or were just outright confusing. Take the first year of Justice for example. It was so bad they actually erased it from continuity. Going back over the books the last few days, I just feel like the writers didn't actually know what to do with what they had.

It was only after the Pitt, and even moreso after the Draft, that the real potential of the books was realised. If it wasn't for Fabian Nicenza, Peter David and Mark Greunwald, I don't think we'd even be having this discussion now. As much as I'm looking forward to the Untold Tales volumes, I would be so much more excited about them if they were set in the latter days of the whole thing rather than the early days. The only bright spot for me personally is seeing Mike Crawley back with the Psi-Force team. I always liked him

Shooter may have been the driving force behind the creation of the New Universe, and I thank him for that, but I don't think he did it any real favor other than leaving it behind.

What do you think?

[Knightt]

Nope...

[rkjock1]

I have to say Knigtt I'm a bit surprised to hear that seeing as you've been talking about possibly picking up the older stuff.

Any reason?

[Knightt]

I have to say Knigtt I'm a bit surprised to hear that seeing as you've been talking about possibly picking up the older stuff.

Any reason?

Yeah I changed my mind... I read a few issues and just tucked them away firmly believing that I will never pick them up again. Wasnt good then, probably wont hold my interest now. <shrug>

[dac55]

Did you try D.P.7 Knightt? I thought it put me in mind of the Strangers Of the Ultraverse.

David

[StarBrand]

Shooter wrote the first six Star Brands and plotted issue seven.
It was Byrne who had the old man fighting Ken Connell.
I personally liked Shooter's Star Brand as well as anything he wrote at Valiant!

[Todd Luck]

Now... compare that with Byrne's run on the title and the whole Pitt event and tell me please why it is that Shooter's run is the one so many people on the board here have cited as a bright spot in the New U??

The cynical but probably true answer is that thanks to Valiant (partly to this website) Shooter has a very vocal online following.

But for those have read and seriously compared the issues there's a lot of good stuff going on in the Shooter Star Brand issues. I don't think it's in every scene or every issue but there are a lot of really nice ideas and well constructed stories. Not as good as his later stuff but still nice.

Byrne destroyed Ken Connell, turning him into bafoon and then a mad man, which didn't set well with a lot of fans. But, even excepting the 180 in Ken's character, the couple issues I got of his just weren't entertaining to me. It was too dark. Ken was simply too dumb to be believable.

But i do agree that the rest of the NU got a lot better in their last two years. Some of the things they did (Pit juice, the destuction of Pittsburgh, Ronald Reagan getting powers) seemed too much but it became a very interesting, interconnected grounded universe set in real time.

I don't think it had much to with Shooter leaving. I've never heard of him having much creative involvement in the issue-to-issue execution of any of the titles but StarBrand.

[rkjock1]

The cynical but probably true answer is that thanks to Valiant (partly to this website) Shooter has a very vocal online following.

This is probably true. I think it would be difficlut to argue anyway.

Byrne destroyed Ken Connell, turning him into bafoon and then a mad man, which didn't set well with a lot of fans. But, even excepting the 180 in Ken's character, the couple issues I got of his just weren't entertaining to me. It was too dark. Ken was simply too dumb to be believable.

See, the darker, more realistic aspect is exactly what I liked about it. The elements of adding the Star Child, giving the Brand to the fat, dopey neighbor and the old man with the cancer stricken grandson were just really great ways to explore the power it had.

And I really don't agree with you about the Ken thing. For one, he was shown as a womanizing mechanic. No offense to anyone on this really, but this is exactly the sort of character stereotype that is supposed to be a bit slow and often a little unbalanced. Let's look too at his partner choice of "Debbie Duck." Even pre-Byrne this wasn't exactly you're run of the mill college graduate. In fact, I'm next to positive that Shooter fleshed Ken out in this manner for exactly the reason of showing that he was possibly one of the most unlikely candidates to wield such power.

[rkjock1]

Shooter wrote the first six Star Brands and plotted issue seven.
It was Byrne who had the old man fighting Ken Connell.
I personally liked Shooter's Star Brand as well as anything he wrote at Valiant!

Sorry man, but Connell fought the Old Man in both of the first 2 issues of the comic. If you have copies of the books go back and check. It was Byrne who made sense of the whole thing and set-up the Old Man/Connell/Starbaby being the same person.

[Todd Luck]

Byrne destroyed Ken Connell, turning him into bafoon and then a mad man, which didn't set well with a lot of fans. But, even excepting the 180 in Ken's character, the couple issues I got of his just weren't entertaining to me. It was too dark. Ken was simply too dumb to be believable.

See, the darker, more realistic aspect is exactly what I liked about it. The elements of adding the Star Child, giving the Brand to the fat, dopey neighbor and the old man with the cancer stricken grandson were just really great ways to explore the power it had.

And I really don't agree with you about the Ken thing. For one, he was shown as a womanizing mechanic. No offense to anyone on this really, but this is exactly the sort of character stereotype that is supposed to be a bit slow and often a little unbalanced. Let's look too at his partner choice of "Debbie Duck." Even pre-Byrne this wasn't exactly you're run of the mill college graduate. In fact, I'm next to positive that Shooter fleshed Ken out in this manner for exactly the reason of showing that he was possibly one of the most unlikely candidates to wield such power.

Darker doesn't mean more realistic. It was actually the opposite to me. It was unrealistically grim with Ken becoming your cliched comicbook madman atleast for an issue (again, I've only got a few issues here and there of the series).

Was Ken flawed and an unlikely candidate for the power? Absolutely. But he learned more about himself and how to use the power every issue under Shooter.

And he was never an idiot until Byrne wrote him. Byrne put him in a costume, had him have a fight in the middle of a crowded comic convetion (hey who care about the bystanders, they're just human right?), has him put the majority of his power in a dumbbell even though he knows the old man tried this a zilliion and it never worked (plus the old man blew up an astroid with his power, what did he think the dumbbell would do?). It was just too much for me.

I don't know, maybe the Star Brand guy after Ken was better, I don't have those issues. I love Byrne to death. Usually his stuff is really fun and filled with great, intrigueing ideas. I just couldn't find any of that in the couple issues I got of his Star Brand run.