Restart Valiant under a different flag.

X-O MattOwar · Post by **X-O MattOwar** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:54 pm

I know I'm probably not the first person to suggest this or ask this question but theres about 200+ people hitting this site consistently and among them I'm sure we have business men and women professional artist (like myself) writers,and various other experts in business and arts so has anyone on this site actually researched the cost of purchasing any of the Valiant character rights from Acclaim? I know the prospect of them letting go of one isn't high for a character that might have video game prospects but we would only need two. Two Flagship characters to build around. Start with one book and one well known character or two and build from there. Say X-O for example doesn't need a universe to draw from, he can stand alone for a year, other villains and heroes can be made. Start from scratch taking the best parts and to connect it all just takes creativity of which there is an abundance here. If the first book shows a profit redirect that to acquiring another character and so on. Make it like stock with the fans buying in directly. I had two friends start their own company and they were idiots. It takes some money but that can be aquired easily enough. One book, done right could rekindle everything. I just wonder if anyone on here has thought about this because I know this is a large group of people that already dedicate allot of time to appreciating this particular universe so why not do something great with all that dedication. I'm a dreamer and maybe talking crazy but do any of you think it could be done?

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:01 am

If you ask me, all you really need is Magnus, Rai, and Harbinger. Not to say I didn't enjoy the others, but those were the real concepts with staying power. Unfortunately, Magnus would almost certainly be the hardest one to obtain.

I think acclaim would be least likely to release Shadowman, Turok, X-O, and Bloodshot. The first two are already household names in the gaming community and the other two have tremendous potential for games if Acclaim ever chooses to dig them up.

dave · Post by **dave** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:47 am

an "easy" character to get might be timewalker...and even though he's not exactly a fan favorite-you could start your stories in any time-thus giving you a little freedom as far as all the timelines go...might be a good way to rebuild.

soundoftheuniverse · Post by **soundoftheuniverse** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:15 pm

I agree we have enough combined resources to relaunch a title or two but with characters so loved by the fans who do you suggest be the decision makers?

From history we know that it took a few fantastic minds working together to get Valiant off the ground only to have it come crashing down after Shooter was hijacked. So who's going to be our "Shooter"? Or we could have a handfull of members to take charge.

I nominate ZWH, since I think he's one of the smartest guys on the board and understands more of the industry than most of us.

Basically I don't see anything getting off the ground without some serious leadership not to mention plenty of money, great stories, art and cooperation. What's the point of a relauch that dies because of disagreements, bickering, jealousy etc... which we all know is the bane of the comic industry and specifically Valiant.

There's got to be a President if you will who is respected enough by everyone to make decisions in the best interests of our little community. Of course Greg is the obvious choice but I think ZWH would do a bang up job.

ZWH is the man who I think can handle the stress and keep a potential project from falling apart. Plus he's been a board member forever and I believe is respected by most of us especially those of us who will have serious contributions to make.

Let me know if there's anyone else who wants to join the ZWH fanclub!

X-O MattOwar · Post by **X-O MattOwar** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:45 pm

There definately needs to be an checks and balances system but that is easily constructed. What would make this work is staying simple. There is no way to relaunch the universe but one book is not only cost effective but controllable. Everyone that invest gets a vote and its democratic. Story lines can be presented and art assignments given out. I know allot of the artists here ,myself included, that would draw pages for free. We alternate chores so as to keep things fresh and not burn anyone out. None of us can dedicate our lives to it, but all of us can give partial time. This forum can be an approval ground for concept art and stories, all the while bringing in new members to help. To be part of something and see it come to life would be payment enough. If we all kept that in mind it would work. We could start with a test book. Pick a character and complete a book place it on this site. Greg, ZWH, all the upper classmen as well as the new guys like myself should be involved. As a whole we could put out a masterful book. We have little to lose by trying.

Zero_UK · Post by **Zero_UK** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:37 am

Valiant succeeded largely because it built on the Gold Key foundations. It seems from previous topics that Magnus (the central V/GK character) is taken and we will see more original Magnus soon (great news).

How about bringing in some Gold Key that Valiant didn't buy? There is Mighty Samson, an excellent series set after a nuclear apocalypse. This could be the world that was rebuilt into first Captain Johnner's world and then North Am.

So start with Samson, bring in Capt. Johnner and the Aliens and throw in Space Family Robinson too. Later we could have a mark 2 Doctor Spector perhaps.

Just a thought,
Zero

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:48 am

You know, you could always launch a title called "Valiant Tales" or something like that. No set character, but it would be stories from the Valiant Universe. Depending on which characters you got rights to, you could have story arcs involving them. Then, if/when if got more popular, you could start off characters in their own titles.

Writing would be the key - that's what held the Valiant Universe together, and what ended up destroying it.

Chris

X-O MattOwar · Post by **X-O MattOwar** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:28 pm

Agreed, writing is the key and thats what is beautiful about comics, not all of us can write a novel but anyone can write eighteen pages and it can be great. I think Valiant is more a style and a spirit and is not solely bent or broken on any particular character. Honestly the easiest way to restart it is from scratch. Create characters inspired by Valiant and if the rights to the others become available then all the better. I know we all have characters in our heads that are reflections of what made us like Valiant. The Valiant tales idea is the way to go I think, change the characters around often, gives everyone a chance to write and draw. So this is the start. Anyone have a story or a starting place?

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:41 pm

I've been sitting on an original character idea for quite a while now. He's extremely loosely based on the second Rai, but has a timeless superhero quality to him, as well as a lot of character complexity and a lot of plot ideas. If we got something going, and I could be guarenteed ownership of the character, I'd be happy to bring him on board and write him (I cannot do the art though!).

He was actually the result of me and a friend formulating a whole Valiant/Defiant inspired universe. We have a story for the entire universe (much like Defiant Genesis) except this world is much closer to home, and largely features three time periods (much like VH1). It also explains how super powered beings came to be, much like Valiant tried to do with Solar destroying his universe, though I think our explanation makes more sense

We have some other basic character ideas for this universe, but none of the others are as fleshed out. Again, if the intellectual property issues were properly addressed, we'd be more than happy to share. I seriously doubt we'd get these published on our own.

X-O MattOwar · Post by **X-O MattOwar** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:09 pm

Thats a start man, and we need to all agree that any character that is brought into this remains the sole property of the individual that created them. That needs to be the golden rule and I think we all need to respect that. Besides copyright laws are clear, they will be dated and witnessed here on this site and that is enough to hold up anywhere, stealing a character should be like stealing someones child because in many ways that is what they are. And Shaxper is right a few can't publish it but they can give life to it and we can see where that takes us. Many books started this way. I volunteer to help pencil the first issue. There is nothing to lose here and everything to gain. Shaxper if you feel comfortable then lets make your character and story a starting point. If anyone else has an ideas then lets hear it. We are all on equal footing. Do not be afraid to speak up and toss your hat in the ring.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:19 pm

Let me talk it over with my co-creator tomorrow. The character is mine, but the universe (which is awesome) belongs to both of us. I think you guys would like it. With his permission, I can throw in our other character concepts for fleshing-out, as well.

If not, I'd be happy to get started with my character anyway. I could probably script the first issue by the end of the week, in fact. I've been meaning to do it for a while now.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:41 pm

Incidentally, is there any way to set up a private forum for sharing these ideas? I have no doubt that theft of ideas by another member would hold up in court with this site's archives as evidence, but I'm concerned about passer-bys who might read these threads without ever registering or leaving any proof that they were ever here. On the off chance any of this takes off and works, we all need to protect ourselves against intellectual property theft.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:58 am

So X-O and I seem to be the only ones discussing this. Is anyone else interested, or is this direction not what you guys had in mind?

I'd be very excited to tell you all about my character, but only if you guys actually want to do this. Also, it's going to be a very lonely universe without other people's talents involved.

X-O MattOwar · Post by **X-O MattOwar** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:12 pm

I think a private forum would be good for the actual construction. And I agree two individuals kinda defeats the concept. And open book with no real limitations and everyone has a voice. Surely there are others who would like to see an idea come to life. Those who are afraid of intellectual property theft please read and understand the laws its not that easy to steal a universe that is well documented and witnessed but really there are very few original concepts out there, just unique perceptions which can never be truly stolen. Perhaps if we do a few pages to get the ball rolling then others might join in. How about we make this a multiverse. Many concepts and ideas can live in the same reality but separated for now, as other concepts and characters are brought to life they can be merged. At the very worst you can hang you own limited edition 1 of 5 copy of your comic on the wall.

greg · Post by **greg** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:15 pm

I can create a category that is only visible by registered users...
But there's no limitations on who can be a registered user.

Does that help your concerns, or not?

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:27 pm

Absolutely. If someone were to steal an idea (knock on wood), we'd be able to prove that they were a registered user on this forum. That'd legally suffice.

As for the multi-verse, I thoroughly agree. I hope no one misunderstood me when I said my friend and I had an idea in mind for a universe concept. That doesn't mean that only our characters can be used, nor that there are limitations on any other characters brought on board. The universe completely lends itself to just about any story. It automatically explains all "mutant" super abilities, and very closely resembles our reality, along with a past and future. Obviously, there's no "New York", but then make up a "Gotham" or "Metropolis" type place. Just about any character idea (sans anthropomorphized characters) will work here.

Plus, we haven't even agreed that we like the Universe idea yet. We could totally scratch it and go with a universe perfectly modelled on this one, or someone could throw out another universe idea. I'm not trying to monopolize the creative drive here. It's just that no one else is speaking

Incidentally, my friend gave the green light to share, so long as we're interested in doing this. We'll just wait for Greg to establish the forum.

Thanks, Greg!

X-O MattOwar · Post by **X-O MattOwar** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:02 pm

Excellent Shaxper. I think everyone knew you weren't trying to monpolize anything. This is cool concept and I think it will catch on. But we need a just a few more people to jump in. I imagine allot of people just want to see it start. Thank you Greg for the forum as well. We'll get it going and I feel confident it will grow. Once we have the forum we'll get some concept drawing and summary writing broken out. I have a friend who is an editor and a novelist who would like to help as well if we need him. We'll make a good book, at the least something new to read brought to the forum by individuals that support this site and the work it stands for. I think this is start of something truly cool.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:10 pm

Absolutely!

And I think people will be more psyched once they see the ideas we have planned. Just waiting on that private forum.

Incidentally, how do we work creative control? Ideally, I'd like for characters to be creator controlled and creator written (while open to suggestions and other writers if they choose, of course) while compromising on issues like cross-overs and universe-impacting events, but if we're going to start by only producing one comic, that could be problematic.

I do consider my character mine. I'll happily negotiate on the Universe, other heroes, villains and supporting characters, etc. But I feel strongly about having sole control over the progress of my character's title. Will this be a problem?

If so, maybe we could save him for a later title, and start with something I'm less protective about. Like I said, my friend and I do have other concepts on the table that aren't as fully developed.

And if anyone else has character concepts, we're all ears.

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:18 am

When you are logged in, you should be able to see a new category on the main page:
http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/forum/index.php

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:30 am

Sweet! I'll post what I've got there sometime tonight, when I have a little more time.

Thanks, Greg!

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:15 pm

X-O MattOwar wrote:Excellent Shaxper. I think everyone knew you weren't trying to monpolize anything. This is cool concept and I think it will catch on. But we need a just a few more people to jump in. I imagine allot of people just want to see it start. Thank you Greg for the forum as well. We'll get it going and I feel confident it will grow. Once we have the forum we'll get some concept drawing and summary writing broken out. I have a friend who is an editor and a novelist who would like to help as well if we need him. We'll make a good book, at the least something new to read brought to the forum by individuals that support this site and the work it stands for. I think this is start of something truly cool.

So where'd you disappear to, Mattowar? We're finally getting things cooking!

X-O MattOwar · Post by **X-O MattOwar** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:27 pm

Sorry I might float in and out of the forum sometimes the way my art biz goes I'm REAL busy at times and then have weeks off with nothing on my plate. As for creative control it belongs to the creator. I have no problem with that and thats how I imagined it anyway. I'll hop in the new forum and we'll get going.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:51 pm

Yey! We've got MATT back

Bob Layton · Post by **Bob Layton** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:38 am

You wrote: "I know I'm probably not the first person to suggest this or ask this question but theres about 200+ people hitting this site consistently and among them I'm sure we have business men and women professional artist (like myself) writers,and various other experts in business and arts so has anyone on this site actually researched the cost of purchasing any of the Valiant character rights from Acclaim?"

Again, I need to put my two cents in:
I actually considered aquiring the Valiant characters when I started Future Comics but that idea was immediately shot down by the retail community.
Keep in mind that they were severly burned by the Valiant speculator boom--that's why there is always Valiants in 50 cent boxes in every comic shop.
In fact, much of the resistance we got for Future was that they were too much like the old Valiants, which has left a bad taste in the retailers' mouths. The retail community generally do not support independents enough to sustain a healthy business. It's as simple as that. Look at the current situation at Crossgen for an example. For the most part, even if they say they love what you're doing, they're going to spend their money on the latest Marvel #1 title and not on your small title. I learned that the hard way. It's all about units sold and they KNOW they can move Marvel and DC easier than indies.

And then--there's the problem with Acclaim.
They are a nasty bunch of guys, to put it mildly. Doing business with them would be a nightmare.
Acclaim lost their shirts with the Valiant characters (paying a whopping 65 million dollars) and, it's safe to presume that they still haven't made much of that money back. I guarantee you that they'd want wayyyyyy too much money for the licensing rights. If you hadn't noticed--they're not fiscally sound these days.
Oh--did I mention that they're evil, as well?
The best bet to revive the characters is to wait until Acclaim goes under and the intellectual properties go up on the auction block. Either an benign gaming company will get their hands on them or one of the majors publishers will acquire them as DC did with the old Charlton characters.
I love the characters as much as anybody on these boards--but the reality of the market will always raise its ugly head.
Bob
bob@boblayton.com

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:19 am

Hi Bob-
It seems like the last place to find a "new" comic (other than Marvel or DC) is anywhere else BUT a comic shop. Sometime I wonder how comic shops & small publishers can still exist...

Has Future Comics' sales online been up to your expectations, since you went soley to online sales? In this modern day arena of no middleman via the internet, what do you think would be the best way for someone new to get started? How much venture capital would be needed to get an issue created & published, say 2-3,000 copies?

I think these guys on the board are quite serious about publishing something. Your prespective would undoubtly add quite a bit of wisdom to the mix, as it already has.

I personally think that Jaknife's first concern should be character copyrights, before all else. Anything worth creating is worth protecting like a mother hen, IMO!:)

Best regards---Steve G

ValiantFans.com Board - Since 2004

Restart Valiant under a different flag.

Restart Valiant under a different flag.

ZWH

Gold Key Base