What exactly is a Valiant Continuity Bible?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:58 am

Just to clarify, I've never been asked to take down the online version of Solar #0, and it's still available for anyone who wants to read it at my Solar Site, The Edge.

sonicdan · Post by **sonicdan** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:01 am

Here's a visual reference....I saved these pix when VanHook sold some of his Valiant items:

DAN

sonicdan · Post by **sonicdan** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:04 am

Me, I won one of these neat-o Valiant Jackets from Kevin
(modeled by his son) which has caused far less controversy

.

DAN

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:09 am

sonicdan wrote:Me, I won one of these neat-o Valiant Jackets from Kevin
(modeled by his son) which has caused far less controversy .

DAN

Cool jacket Dan.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:39 am

ckb wrote:I have have since sold my original to another board member for what I paid. I will leave it to him to identify himself if he wants to.

That'd be me. I especially appreciated the gesture as I had been close to winning the original auction and was happy to have a true memoribilia from one of the great creators at Valiant (and thanks to Steve I also have memoribilia from Bob Layton).

/Magnus

brianlock · Post by **brianlock** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:43 am

Thanks for the all the info guys. I'll be waiting whenever a VCB is made avaibable again, too bad I missed the last batch of 30.

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:53 am

sonicdan wrote:Me, I won one of these neat-o Valiant Jackets from Kevin
(modeled by his son) which has caused far less controversy .

DAN

I got KVHs jacket (he had 3). I'll have it in Boston with me at the show this weekend if anyone wants to put it on and bask in its absolute coolness.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:25 pm

ckb wrote:Well, since no one is posting a "History of the World, Part 1", I guess I will have to contain my rage and do it.

Contain your rage? Let me feed you a little info, Chris....it is because of you that things went down the way they did with my copies.

I originally asked you if you could make me a copy of your VCB in March 2004, two months before Bob's auctions. When you refused, I jumped at the opportunity to buy Bob's copy, when it became available. Because YOU were so stingy with yours, I openly and freely offered copies of mine to board members at cost, three times between May '04 to June '05. I made a total of 40 copies from all three printings.

Had you made me a copy when I asked, things might have turned out completely different. Now there's some 'food for thought' for you.

...Of course, you probably won't see this post until someone quotes me, because, for some reason unknown to me, you have me on ignore.---Steve

PS---Other than Greg's poster of covers (for persons who gave website donations), my first printing copies of the VCB were the first 'fan project' to hit these boards. Yet to many, I'm still one of the board's most disliked members. Go figure.....<sigh>

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:31 pm

ckb wrote:
sonicdan wrote:Me, I won one of these neat-o Valiant Jackets from Kevin
(modeled by his son) which has caused far less controversy .

DAN
I got KVHs jacket (he had 3). I'll have it in Boston with me at the show this weekend if anyone wants to put it on and bask in its absolute coolness.

It is a cool jacket. Maybe one day I will own one also....

In the meantime, I'll just have to settle for the BROADWAY COMICS jacket I have, with Fatale' in the inner lining. Still one of the best $50 I've ever spent....---Steve

More pics:
http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL826/44 ... 021437.jpg
http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL826/44 ... 021328.jpg
http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL826/44 ... 020779.jpg

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:04 pm

CKB wrote:
ckb wrote:Well, since no one is posting a "History of the World, Part 1", I guess I will have to contain my rage and do it.
Contain your rage? Let me feed you a little info, Chris....it is because of you that things went down the way they did with my copies.

I originally asked you if you could make me a copy of your VCB in March 2004, two months before Bob's auctions. When you refused, I jumped at the opportunity to buy Bob's copy, when it became available. Because YOU were so stingy with yours, I openly and freely offered copies of mine to board members at cost, three times between May '04 to June '05. I made a total of 40 copies from all three printings.

Had you made me a copy when I asked, things might have turned out completely different. Now there's some 'food for thought' for you.

...Of course, you probably won't see this post until someone quotes me, because, for some reason unknown to me, you have me on ignore.---Steve

PS---Other than Greg's poster of covers (for persons who gave website donations), my first printing copies of the VCB were the first 'fan project' to hit these boards. Yet to many, I'm still one of the board's most disliked members. Go figure.....<sigh>

Nah he will see it now...but he wouldnt have seen even if someone quoted it..plus you can saythings in quotes that you dont want someone to see if you just quote it as someone they have ignored..

it is great fun..

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:07 pm

DawgPhan wrote:Go Gators!

Sure is ...

myron · Post by **myron** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:08 pm

ack...pttthhhbbb...think I just coughed up a hair ball...

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:08 pm

DawgPhan wrote:
VK wrote:
ckb wrote:Well, since no one is posting a "History of the World, Part 1", I guess I will have to contain my rage and do it.
Contain your rage? Let me feed you a little info, Chris....it is because of you that things went down the way they did with my copies.

I originally asked you if you could make me a copy of your VCB in March 2004, two months before Bob's auctions. When you refused, I jumped at the opportunity to buy Bob's copy, when it became available. Because YOU were so stingy with yours, I openly and freely offered copies of mine to board members at cost, three times between May '04 to June '05. I made a total of 40 copies from all three printings.

Had you made me a copy when I asked, things might have turned out completely different. Now there's some 'food for thought' for you.

...Of course, you probably won't see this post until someone quotes me, because, for some reason unknown to me, you have me on ignore.---Steve

PS---Other than Greg's poster of covers (for persons who gave website donations), my first printing copies of the VCB were the first 'fan project' to hit these boards. Yet to many, I'm still one of the board's most disliked members. Go figure.....<sigh>
Nah he will see it now...but he wouldnt have seen even if someone quoted it..plus you can saythings in quotes that you dont want someone to see if you just quote it as someone they have ignored..

it is great fun..

LOOK MA! FUN WITH QUOTES!

~Unblessed

myron · Post by **myron** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:09 pm

depluto wrote:
DawgPhan wrote:Go Gators!
Sure is ...

...guess where this thread is headed...

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:16 pm

depluto wrote:
DawgPhan wrote:Go Gators!
Sure is ...

Damn you!!! That wasnt what I was talking about..

justin · Post by **justin** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:21 pm

ckb wrote:The list of people who got copies (as I remember it - don't crucify me if I am wrong, just correct me) are Greg, x-omatic (Chris), and architect (Justin).

My original copy came from a writer/colorist/artist from Valiant. I had it in hand about the same time Steve purchased his. I bought a copy of Steves because I wasn't sure as to what Bobs might have contained that mine didn't. I have never owned a copy from Kevin.

The new VCB has had all of the images from the Book of the Geomancer redrawn. Once the book is out, I will be giving away that art, one piece at a time and everyone will get a chance to own a piece. Below is a sampling of that art, its Paul N'Dour.

All the proceeds from this book once published will be used in a very respectable manner. Seaborns widow, daughter and new family will receive it. Just that simple. They have provided me with vast amounts of insight and a few other items I will share with the boards this coming summer.

-j

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:26 pm

Cool!

I hope we get a chance to catch up and talk about that thing we haven't been able to talk about, heh.

justin · Post by **justin** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:41 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:Cool!

I hope we get a chance to catch up and talk about that thing we haven't been able to talk about, heh.

Let me know what works for you this week Mike!

-j

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:50 pm

architect wrote:
ckb wrote:The list of people who got copies (as I remember it - don't crucify me if I am wrong, just correct me) are Greg, x-omatic (Chris), and architect (Justin).
My original copy came from a writer/colorist/artist from Valiant. I had it in hand about the same time Steve purchased his. I bought a copy of Steves because I wasn't sure as to what Bobs might have contained that mine didn't. I have never owned a copy from Kevin.

Thank you for correcting me, I will edit my post.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:53 pm

architect wrote:Let me know what works for you this week Mike!

-j

I'm mostly online from 10 am until 3 pm (not sure what my time zone is. I always forget, heh).

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:04 pm

Contain your rage? Let me feed you a little info, Chris....it is because of you that things went down the way they did with my copies.

I originally asked you if you could make me a copy of your VCB in March 2004, two months before Bob's auctions. When you refused, I jumped at the opportunity to buy Bob's copy, when it became available. Because YOU were so stingy with yours, I openly and freely offered copies of mine to board members at cost, three times between May '04 to June '05. I made a total of 40 copies from all three printings.

Had you made me a copy when I asked, things might have turned out completely different. Now there's some 'food for thought' for you.

...Of course, you probably won't see this post until someone quotes me, because, for some reason unknown to me, you have me on ignore.---Steve

PS---Other than Greg's poster of covers (for persons who gave website donations), my first printing copies of the VCB were the first 'fan project' to hit these boards. Yet to many, I'm still one of the board's most disliked members. Go figure.....<sigh>

I really do not have anything to say to that. I think it speaks for itself. Victimhood appears to be a disease. Like we are all forced to use crack because our life sucks, we are also forced to unwisely copy and distribute Intellectual Property that we do not own.

"Stingy" had nothing to do with it. I was simply being ethical. I did not have the right to copy that work in its entirety and distribute it. I harbor not the tinyest grain of guilt.

And my rage is not directed at you specifically for being naive in thinking that you were doing everyone a favor in copying and distributing the work, it is with the whole set of events surrounding the VCB and the other IP issues with the Valiant IP, its auction and sale. The whole thing is disturbing to me. I'll be happy when/if the VCB is published in a responsible fashion, and the IP issues have been solved for everyone involved.

Nah he will see it now...but he wouldnt have seen even if someone quoted it..plus you can saythings in quotes that you dont want someone to see if you just quote it as someone they have ignored..

This was cruel, I would rather not have seen it. I forgive you, though.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:12 pm

ckb wrote:I'll be happy when/if the VCB is published in a responsible fashion, and the IP issues have been solved for everyone involved.

As much as I'd like to have a copy of it, I hope it's never, ever, ever, ever published.

Instead I hope the new owners use it as the basis to revive the VALIANT Universe and keep it secret and away from the fans.

Things I hope to see from the new VALIANT are:

A new version of Rai #0 expanded from 22 to 48 pages with revised dialogue by Jim Shooter and art by Lapham. The new pages can cover new past and future events revised to fit the changes made to the characters after Shooter left (i.e. Ken Clarkson running for the Senate, then being killed by Crescendo, Solar mergin with a sun, Bloodshot being blown up, etc).

Hire new and old writers to expand on the bible with a second volume.

Get a new archivist.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:30 pm

ckb wrote:Like we are all forced to use crack because our life sucks, we are also forced to unwisely copy and distribute Intellectual Property that we do not own.

And my rage is not directed at you specifically for being naive in thinking that you were doing everyone a favor in copying and distributing the work, it is with the whole set of events surrounding the VCB...

Yeah, why don't you put VanHook on ignore also? After all, he made unethical copies off your copy, before you even got it. He was just as wrong as me for making copies....wasn't he?

I don't feel an ounce of guilt for what I did, either. I was given approval by Bob Layton first, then Kevin VanHook, later on, when he sent me a copy of the Book of Geomancers last year.

BTW, I'm glad you were able to sell your original copy without losing your investment, as it seems that was your main concern when I started making my copies. (Did you have a personal copy made before you sent it off?...I would have) I'm even happier that Kevin's copy went to MagnusR. I couldn't think of a better home for it.

---Steve

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:34 pm

That's the part I don't get about your whole argument.

Ethics vs finances. Who's on what side?

Was it ethical to copy and distribute the bible? No, it says so right there on the cover.

Was it ethical for Layton and Vanhook to sell their copies? One could argue that it wasn't since it also says not to do it, but they were part of the team that came up with it, so surely they could ignore their own rule and also grant permission to other people to make copies and give them away for free or even sell, no?

I know that if it had been me I would have been conflicted about the whole thing.

On the one hand I'd want to share the knowledge with other VALIANT fans, but on the other I wouldn't have wanted to break the rules that clearly appear on the cover.

greg · Post by **greg** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:48 pm

I realize this is a topic with a bit of history to it, and some hard feelings...
Please keep continued discussion non-personal.