How would Valiant start over?
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X-O MattOwar
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How would Valiant start over?
Heres a good topic. If you were in charge of starting Valiant over, where would you start? What Characters would you keep and which ones would you kill off? Biggest of all how would you handle the continuity?
Good skin, gone bad.
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Ghetto D
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If I had this universe, I would do a few things differently. In the early days Valiant heros and villains were very human. I think they lost that over time. I would create a universe slowly where stories are interwoven and guys cross paths all the time. Most importantly though I would blur the lines between good and evil. Humanity is not black and white, why should comics be.
I remember in the early days thinking that X-O would end up being a Harada stooge. I thought it would be cool to have Aric do his thing, but occationally be called as a hitman for Harada to do some dirty work.
I guess what I'm saying is my universe would not have heros and villains, but people with gifts. Gifts that can be and are often used for good and bad. Who says heros can't be selfish?
I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, and I'm not sure if it would sell, but I've always enjoyed comics (and any other story, movie, etc.) where you don't quite know who to root for and thus you don't really know how it will all turn out.
I remember in the early days thinking that X-O would end up being a Harada stooge. I thought it would be cool to have Aric do his thing, but occationally be called as a hitman for Harada to do some dirty work.
I guess what I'm saying is my universe would not have heros and villains, but people with gifts. Gifts that can be and are often used for good and bad. Who says heros can't be selfish?
I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, and I'm not sure if it would sell, but I've always enjoyed comics (and any other story, movie, etc.) where you don't quite know who to root for and thus you don't really know how it will all turn out.
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greg
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I won't blast you for it...Ghetto D wrote:I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, and I'm not sure if it would sell, but I've always enjoyed comics (and any other story, movie, etc.) where you don't quite know who to root for and thus you don't really know how it will all turn out.
Everytime I re-read Unity, I come to the same conclusions.
Erica is the villain, right? Why?
What is she planning to do that Solar the hero hasn't already done?
Rai is the hero because he dies trying to KILL Erica.
He tried to KILL her, but she killed him.
So, he's the hero, she's the villain. Right?
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X-O MattOwar
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I totally agree. I like the "Regular people with gifts" universe.
I think the characters main selling point and why they became so popular is their humanity,all their weaknesses balanced by all that power. I never wanted Aric to become intelligent or God like. I thought it was cool that he tried to fight without the armor sometimes. I liked that he was basic.
To bring it back there would have to be another Unity. It would have to clean the slate. I think you could almost simply start from scratch and let everything bad about the past simply fall into the blackhole of time ripping. Allow some of the characters to retain some of their memories while the others would have total amnesia. That would make for good interaction between old friends in which one would remember and one would not. And you could write away some mistakes. Lastly I would turn Darque into a hero, and make X-O (my favorite character) a villain!
I think the characters main selling point and why they became so popular is their humanity,all their weaknesses balanced by all that power. I never wanted Aric to become intelligent or God like. I thought it was cool that he tried to fight without the armor sometimes. I liked that he was basic.
To bring it back there would have to be another Unity. It would have to clean the slate. I think you could almost simply start from scratch and let everything bad about the past simply fall into the blackhole of time ripping. Allow some of the characters to retain some of their memories while the others would have total amnesia. That would make for good interaction between old friends in which one would remember and one would not. And you could write away some mistakes. Lastly I would turn Darque into a hero, and make X-O (my favorite character) a villain!
Good skin, gone bad.
I would actually not have any Rai anything in Magnus. there wasnt in the early days, shouldnt have been *SO* much in the later days. To be honest, I would make a Rai title chronicaling the Pre-Rentaro Rais. Even if there wasn't so juch a storyline, just adventures and such with sho shugino and on.
Guys to bring back and get their own title.
Bloodshot
XO
Turok
Harbinger
Solar
Rai(as stated above)
Eternal Warrior
Timewalker(but done better)
A&A
Magnus
Darque(heh heh heh)
Shadowman
Dr. Mirage
MI-5(explanation soon)
and thats it.
Timewalker would be more controlled. I would want him to be able to at least control when he wanted to travel. and maybe be able to control where he was going based on his thoughts.
MI-5 would be about Secret Weapons/Ninjak/some Bloodshot/and other adventures centered around the agency. I always thought it would be cool if we could see more of them in action, even if it was just with regular guys.
A comic about Darque would be awesome(hopefully), showing his fights and exploits to become a god.
My first five core titles would be
XO
Solar
Harbinger
Magnus
Shadowman
next Bloodshot, Rai, Turok, Eternal Warrior, A&A, and Timewalker.
the rest would come later, and the MI-5 could simply be a miniseries. that would be my plan. Ive listed who i would recruit as the artists and writers in a different thread. this topic is not new.
Guys to bring back and get their own title.
Bloodshot
XO
Turok
Harbinger
Solar
Rai(as stated above)
Eternal Warrior
Timewalker(but done better)
A&A
Magnus
Darque(heh heh heh)
Shadowman
Dr. Mirage
MI-5(explanation soon)
and thats it.
Timewalker would be more controlled. I would want him to be able to at least control when he wanted to travel. and maybe be able to control where he was going based on his thoughts.
MI-5 would be about Secret Weapons/Ninjak/some Bloodshot/and other adventures centered around the agency. I always thought it would be cool if we could see more of them in action, even if it was just with regular guys.
A comic about Darque would be awesome(hopefully), showing his fights and exploits to become a god.
My first five core titles would be
XO
Solar
Harbinger
Magnus
Shadowman
next Bloodshot, Rai, Turok, Eternal Warrior, A&A, and Timewalker.
the rest would come later, and the MI-5 could simply be a miniseries. that would be my plan. Ive listed who i would recruit as the artists and writers in a different thread. this topic is not new.
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shaxper
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I think that right now, the best way to get a comic book to reach large audiences is on the big screen. I've always felt that Magnus lends itself particularly well to film (particularly with the CG and sci-fi blockbuster potential), and that a series of major motion pictures would majorly renew interest in the franchise. After that, stores would be begging for new comics.
I would start by doing a movie based upon the Gold Key Magnus #1 (reprinted in Vintage Magnus #1). The second film would follow the events of Steel Nation. The Third would introduce Rai, and loosely retell Magnus 5-8. The fourth would be the Malev invasion, culminating with the victory in South Am. The fifth would end the Malev war and transition into the Terran Consortum era, and after that, I think the films would take on a new direction. Though the Giffen issues were interesting, they weren't very cinematic.
After the first Magnus film, a Harbinger film would probably be a good choice. Maybe an X-O film after that, an Eternal Warrior or Archer & Armstrong film would be cool too. Doctor Mirage would cater well to a different audience, and Rai could get a film after the third Magnus film (he also lends himself well to film, with futuristic sci-fi effects and major martial arts). I'd probably avoid tackling Unity (I don't think a film version could possibly live up to the comics), and I'd keep the original Rai alive for the Malev war.
After that, I'll leave the new comics that these movies would create the market for up to you guys
Incidentally, I totally dig the idea of ambiguous good and bad guys. That was part of what made early Harbinger so great. Yeah, Harada killed Sting's friend and tried to kill Sting, but wasn't his purpose justified? Wouldn't you have made the same decision to contain the most powerful Harbinger to ever emerge? I constantly wondered whether the kids were doing the right thing, and only the really evil eggbreakers made the distinction certain.
I would start by doing a movie based upon the Gold Key Magnus #1 (reprinted in Vintage Magnus #1). The second film would follow the events of Steel Nation. The Third would introduce Rai, and loosely retell Magnus 5-8. The fourth would be the Malev invasion, culminating with the victory in South Am. The fifth would end the Malev war and transition into the Terran Consortum era, and after that, I think the films would take on a new direction. Though the Giffen issues were interesting, they weren't very cinematic.
After the first Magnus film, a Harbinger film would probably be a good choice. Maybe an X-O film after that, an Eternal Warrior or Archer & Armstrong film would be cool too. Doctor Mirage would cater well to a different audience, and Rai could get a film after the third Magnus film (he also lends himself well to film, with futuristic sci-fi effects and major martial arts). I'd probably avoid tackling Unity (I don't think a film version could possibly live up to the comics), and I'd keep the original Rai alive for the Malev war.
After that, I'll leave the new comics that these movies would create the market for up to you guys
Incidentally, I totally dig the idea of ambiguous good and bad guys. That was part of what made early Harbinger so great. Yeah, Harada killed Sting's friend and tried to kill Sting, but wasn't his purpose justified? Wouldn't you have made the same decision to contain the most powerful Harbinger to ever emerge? I constantly wondered whether the kids were doing the right thing, and only the really evil eggbreakers made the distinction certain.
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ZephyrWasHOT!!
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screamingdc
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agreed. that's what made the first #25 issues of Harbinger so good. sometimes Sting was forced to reconsider whether he was doing the right thing. expecially with the confrontation where the Eggbreakers came to take that disappearing Harbinger kid bad to the foundation. Sting had to relent because he knew the kid was better off with them, in their medical care.shaxper wrote: Incidentally, I totally dig the idea of ambiguous good and bad guys. That was part of what made early Harbinger so great. Yeah, Harada killed Sting's friend and tried to kill Sting, but wasn't his purpose justified? Wouldn't you have made the same decision to contain the most powerful Harbinger to ever emerge? I constantly wondered whether the kids were doing the right thing, and only the really evil eggbreakers made the distinction certain.
anyways, i'd limit any new Valiant universe to 10 titles max. it would have to be a continuation of VH1, so it being 2004, no more Shadowman, and everything is still tied into Rai #0. Solar, Rai, XO, Magnus, EW, Bloodshot, Archer & Armstrong, Secret Weapons/Ninjak, Dr. Mirage, and one other. the last one could be a rotating title, like a Valiant Chronicles or something like that, with 4 or 5 issue story arcs following the other characters like Geomancer, Darque, HARDCorps, Ivar, Turok, etc.
make everything tie in to each other, but not too much as to dilute cameo appearances... i agree on establishing the human relationship elements, trying not to make the universe seem so cluttered with "mutants" like Marvel is. movie adaptations would come later.
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Nadolonius
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The bad part about Valiant in the Unity stage was, there were too many comics... Valiant was trying far too hard to build a massive comic universe. Because of this, it was easy to see how the comic struggled to build a massively loyal fanbase.
If one were to rebuild the universe, keeping it minimalistic at first would be a necessity. The core titles of Magnus, Harbinger, Solar, X-O, and Shadowman would do well at first. Keeping it at this would still allow the interwoven storylines and also allow for an interesting dichotomy between the ages.
A storyline I've had to pick back up and read is Harbinger. If a movie were made about any part of the Valiant universe... the events of Harbinger leading up to #25 would be awesome... but the end would remind audiences a little too much of Matrix: Revolutions. It would just be nice to see a film that utilizes the moral ambiguity that is associated with doing "what's right." Also, the youthful exuberance of Sting would do well to make audiences relate to the headstrong kid trying to beat his father. But most of all, the storyline was genuine... something more than could be said with the end of the line.
If one were to rebuild the universe, keeping it minimalistic at first would be a necessity. The core titles of Magnus, Harbinger, Solar, X-O, and Shadowman would do well at first. Keeping it at this would still allow the interwoven storylines and also allow for an interesting dichotomy between the ages.
A storyline I've had to pick back up and read is Harbinger. If a movie were made about any part of the Valiant universe... the events of Harbinger leading up to #25 would be awesome... but the end would remind audiences a little too much of Matrix: Revolutions. It would just be nice to see a film that utilizes the moral ambiguity that is associated with doing "what's right." Also, the youthful exuberance of Sting would do well to make audiences relate to the headstrong kid trying to beat his father. But most of all, the storyline was genuine... something more than could be said with the end of the line.
Possible Continuity Bible Spoilers (You've been warned)
I sort of missed this subject, not sure why. Especially since I was thinking the same thing (see the other subject where we were discussing who would be able to bring back the universe).
I think that Valiant had to fail. It was built as a short term universe. Obviously it was meant to last until 1999 but it wasn't supposed to last forever.
The idea behind Valiant was to build a universe that started out just like ours with a couple of changes. A little more Voodoo, some alien technolegy, a couple of really powerful telekentics. A touch of blood replacing trechnology and you have a bloodshot. That's basically it. However, before too long the world would be entirerly different. With a 900 year war where regular humans are in camps or shelters.
With that stated, I think that the only way to see our favorite characters back in action would be in a yearbook/TPB style ONLY. Yes, it would be strange and different to have a universe that only released one book or one bunch of books a month, but that's the only way I really see it effectivly happening. We have a good number of years to catch up, having stories told through the eyes of geomancers or Ivar or Gilad seems to be the best way to keep the storyline continuity without losingso many years and so many great characters. Remember by 2004 shadowman is certainly dead. Bloodshot dies in 2028. ORB Industries is once again the major conglomorate. (VCB- In 2003, the world fell over itself financially, and Harada already owns much more than a country. The stage has already been set for the Harbinger wars.)
So I see no choice but to vote for (random) stories popping throughout history in order to keep continuity and keep a working storyline.
By the way, regarding the Harbinger movie, I'm currently working on plotting one and deciding exactly how to leave out Solar, X-O, Unity and anything else that needs to much explaining. I want it to just be Harbingers (HARD Corps included). Not taking suggestions right now, but I hope to have it finished for the next time I meet Massarsky so I can ask for his [financial] imput. (I promise not to let Gareb from Wizard be Harada.)*
-Dave
*Check the front of the Harbinger TPB if you don't get the refrence.
I sort of missed this subject, not sure why. Especially since I was thinking the same thing (see the other subject where we were discussing who would be able to bring back the universe).
I think that Valiant had to fail. It was built as a short term universe. Obviously it was meant to last until 1999 but it wasn't supposed to last forever.
The idea behind Valiant was to build a universe that started out just like ours with a couple of changes. A little more Voodoo, some alien technolegy, a couple of really powerful telekentics. A touch of blood replacing trechnology and you have a bloodshot. That's basically it. However, before too long the world would be entirerly different. With a 900 year war where regular humans are in camps or shelters.
With that stated, I think that the only way to see our favorite characters back in action would be in a yearbook/TPB style ONLY. Yes, it would be strange and different to have a universe that only released one book or one bunch of books a month, but that's the only way I really see it effectivly happening. We have a good number of years to catch up, having stories told through the eyes of geomancers or Ivar or Gilad seems to be the best way to keep the storyline continuity without losingso many years and so many great characters. Remember by 2004 shadowman is certainly dead. Bloodshot dies in 2028. ORB Industries is once again the major conglomorate. (VCB- In 2003, the world fell over itself financially, and Harada already owns much more than a country. The stage has already been set for the Harbinger wars.)
So I see no choice but to vote for (random) stories popping throughout history in order to keep continuity and keep a working storyline.
By the way, regarding the Harbinger movie, I'm currently working on plotting one and deciding exactly how to leave out Solar, X-O, Unity and anything else that needs to much explaining. I want it to just be Harbingers (HARD Corps included). Not taking suggestions right now, but I hope to have it finished for the next time I meet Massarsky so I can ask for his [financial] imput. (I promise not to let Gareb from Wizard be Harada.)*
-Dave
*Check the front of the Harbinger TPB if you don't get the refrence.
Very good points, thanks for a very good post, but I'm not sure how early on they are applicable. In the VCB they use the word "soon" without more detail. If I remember correctly the Solar issue with Erica shows what looks like a peaceful 2020? I agree it would no longer today be close to our world, but it wasn't since quite a while anyway.DJSpecter wrote:VCB- In 2003
/Magnus
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screamingdc
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blasphemus!DJSpecter wrote: I think that Valiant had to fail. It was built as a short term universe. Obviously it was meant to last until 1999 but it wasn't supposed to last forever.
but really, Valiant didn't have to fail. and i'm sure Shooter and company didn't start the VH1 universe with the thought that it would have a limited shelf life. i guess nobody expects to last forever but Marvel and DC will tell you otherwise.
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soundoftheuniverse
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Wachowski brothers
I'm convinced the Wachowski brothers are Valiant fans too and borrowed alot from Magnus.
I wonder if I'm right then they might have something to say with regards to mentioning a few words about Valiant?
Even if I'm wrong, I'm certain they'd like to see how close a comic came to what they later created and made them bazillionaires.
I wonder if I'm right then they might have something to say with regards to mentioning a few words about Valiant?
Even if I'm wrong, I'm certain they'd like to see how close a comic came to what they later created and made them bazillionaires.
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Nadolonius
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I've begun to wonder how many times these ideas have been re-hashed. The trailer for iRobot looks strikingly like the beginning of the magnus, but then again so did the entire Matrix animation series. I'm just convinced though, a movie need be made... if X-men can pull it off, I'm sure some aspect of this universe could.
One would have to be sure that it adhered to the boundaries of the universe, that it was not done for profit, but as a homage to the series found within. This might spark new interest... bringing it back to life. Now if we could only figure out who still has the rights to the comics....
One would have to be sure that it adhered to the boundaries of the universe, that it was not done for profit, but as a homage to the series found within. This might spark new interest... bringing it back to life. Now if we could only figure out who still has the rights to the comics....