"We Anticipate Being Able to Focus on Expanding": Valiant Publisher Breaks Down New IDW Deal

[Ryan]

I never said that I blame Nicieza for Birthquake.

Birthquake led directly to Valiant losing all of its readers and turning the VH1 characters into a joke in the industry. Whoever was hired to pick up the pieces after Layton had to do something radically different as the characters' brand was completely destroyed.

Is VH2 great? No. But it's not Nicieza's fault that VH1 got flushed. Layton doing cash-grab events like Deathmate and trying to become Image and Marvel by turning his back on the principles that made early Valiant great are what tanked the brand and flushed the characters' credibility.

As for Troublemakers and Shadowman, I said that they could have take place in VH-1 without requiring a reboot. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have had to be done in the style of the VALIANT Universe as it was before it became a copy of DC.

Here's what I don't understand. You say that VH2 is the worst thing ever because they try to copy DC and Marvel and don't follow any of the rules and principles of early Valiant. And yet you love DMG-Alien who also try to copy DC/Marvel and don't follow any of the rules and principles of early Valiant. Why the inconsistency?

[ManofTheAtom]

Birthquake led directly to Valiant losing all of its readers and turning the VH1 characters into a joke in the industry. Whoever was hired to pick up the pieces after Layton had to do something radically different as the characters' brand was completely destroyed.

Is VH2 great? No. But it's not Nicieza's fault that VH1 got flushed. Layton doing cash-grab events like Deathmate and trying to become Image and Marvel by turning his back on the principles that made early Valiant great are what tanked the brand and flushed the characters' credibility.

Layton didn't do Deathmate, that was Massarsky.

DC and Marvel have gone through periods not all that dissimilar from what VALIANT did through Birthquake. They didn't use to solve them by doing reboots. Nowadays, that is all DC does, which is why their comics have turned to crap.

Here's what I don't understand. You say that VH2 is the worst thing ever because they try to copy DC and Marvel and don't follow any of the rules and principles of early Valiant. And yet you love DMG-Alien who also try to copy DC/Marvel and don't follow any of the rules and principles of early Valiant. Why the inconsistency?

Alien and DMG haven't done anything that is inconsistent with what came before during Dinesh' time.

What is it that you believe either had done that contradicts any of the world building that began with the VEI reboot?

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times before, what was done is perfectly consistent with concepts from Archer and Armstrong, such as the Boon.

[Chiclo]

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times before, what was done is perfectly consistent with concepts from Archer and Armstrong, such as the Boon.

Concepts such as magic.

[ManofTheAtom]

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times before, what was done is perfectly consistent with concepts from Archer and Armstrong, such as the Boon.

Concepts such as magic.

In what way do you think magic in the DMG and Alien era was handled differently than in the VEI era? Punk Mambo was introduced during the VEI era, not after.

[Ryan]

Alien and DMG haven't done anything that is inconsistent with what came before during Dinesh' time.

What is it that you believe either had done that contradicts any of the world building that began with the VEI reboot?

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times before, what was done is perfectly consistent with concepts from Archer and Armstrong, such as the Boon.

I'm talking about the quality of comics along with their style and tone.

Is your only criterion for judging a comics' quality is whether the plot content remains consistent with what has come before?

VEI was very Marvel-like (00s era Marvel) in its style and tone, but high quality in presentation. DMG and Alien have continued that style and tone while being much less consistent in terms of quality and cohesion.

Beyond looks a lot like the last time they did Valiant Beyond in 2020 or so. Casual re-imaginings of the main heroes by people with only a passing knowledge of Valiant history.

[Ryan]

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times before, what was done is perfectly consistent with concepts from Archer and Armstrong, such as the Boon.

Concepts such as magic.

In what way do you think magic in the DMG and Alien era was handled differently than in the VEI era? Punk Mambo was introduced during the VEI era, not after.

It's been handled the same in all three. Marvel-like.

[ManofTheAtom]

Alien and DMG haven't done anything that is inconsistent with what came before during Dinesh' time.

What is it that you believe either had done that contradicts any of the world building that began with the VEI reboot?

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times before, what was done is perfectly consistent with concepts from Archer and Armstrong, such as the Boon.

I'm talking about the quality of comics along with their style and tone.

Is your only criterion for judging a comics' quality is whether the plot content remains consistent with what has come before?

VEI was very Marvel-like (00s era Marvel) in its style and tone, but high quality in presentation. DMG and Alien have continued that style and tone while being much less consistent in terms of quality and cohesion.

Beyond looks a lot like the last time they did Valiant Beyond in 2020 or so. Casual re-imaginings of the main heroes by people with only a passing knowledge of Valiant history.

I agree that DMG's books were not that consistent. But as for Alien, we haven't seen that much from them to properly determine that.

I already posted my thoughts on what Alien's published so far. They've clearly been some issues with the art in some places, but in terms of the writing it hasn't been that different from what came before DMG. For one, it helps that they kept some of the same writers who worked at VEI, such as Van Lente.

While Rai changed writers after DMG took over, what they've done in that series hasn't been either inconsistent or bad.

[ManofTheAtom]

And PLEASE don't say Silk undoing death in Resurgence. As stated MANY times before, what was done is perfectly consistent with concepts from Archer and Armstrong, such as the Boon.

Concepts such as magic.

In what way do you think magic in the DMG and Alien era was handled differently than in the VEI era? Punk Mambo was introduced during the VEI era, not after.

It's been handled the same in all three. Marvel-like.

Then what's the problem?

Dinesh set up his own world building for VEI, and DMG and Alien have been consistent with it.

[ManofTheAtom]

If you don't like Alien and DMG because they've been consistent with VEI in such things as magic then you didn't like VEI either...

[Ryan]

Then what's the problem?

Dinesh set up his own world building for VEI, and DMG and Alien have been consistent with it.

You didn't answer the question though, it had nothing to do with VEI vs DMG. I'll make it more clear for you:

Here's what I don't understand. You've railed for decades that VH2 is the worst thing ever because they tried to copy DC and Marvel and didn't follow any of the rules and principles of early VH1 Valiant. And yet you love VEI-DMG-Alien who also try to copy DC/Marvel and don't follow any of the rules and principles of early VH1 Valiant. Why the inconsistency?

[ManofTheAtom]

Then what's the problem?

Dinesh set up his own world building for VEI, and DMG and Alien have been consistent with it.

You didn't answer the question though, it had nothing to do with VEI vs DMG. I'll make it more clear for you:

Here's what I don't understand. You've railed for decades that VH2 is the worst thing ever because they tried to copy DC and Marvel and didn't follow any of the rules and principles of early VH1 Valiant. And yet you love VEI-DMG-Alien who also try to copy DC/Marvel and don't follow any of the rules and principles of early VH1 Valiant. Why the inconsistency?

I've never said "I love DMG and Alien". Try again.

DMG and Alien aren't supposed to adhere to what VH 1 did. They're supposed to adhere to what VEI did since that is what they're continuing from, and they have.

Unlike VH-2, which completely ignored everything that made VALIANT what it was, DMG and Alien have continued exactly from where VEI left off, both in terms of tone and style as well as character and plot arcs, with some exceptions such as DMG ditching the original version of Harbinger Wars II.

As I've stated MANY times before, there are things Dinesh did I disagree with, such as having a multiverse and the like. What you're expecting is for either DMG or Alien to ditch what VEI did entirely and revert to the style of VH-1. While that could be done, they haven't done it yet, and may never do.

Clearly Beyond is intended to be more like VH-2, Marvel, and DC, but UNLIKE VH-2, it is not coming at the expense of VEI, which is still going to be around.

[Ryan]

I've never said "I love DMG and Alien". Try again.

DMG and Alien aren't supposed to adhere to what VH 1 did. They're supposed to adhere to what VEI did since that is what they're continuing from, and they have.

Unlike VH-2, which completely ignored everything that made VALIANT what it was, DMG and Alien have continued exactly from where VEI left off, both in terms of tone and style as well as character and plot arcs, with some exceptions such as DMG ditching the original version of Harbinger Wars II.

As I've stated MANY times before, there are things Dinesh did I disagree with, such as having a multiverse and the like. What you're expecting is for either DMG or Alien to ditch what VEI did entirely and revert to the style of VH-1. While that could be done, they haven't done it yet, and may never do.

Clearly Beyond is intended to be more like VH-2, Marvel, and DC, but UNLIKE VH-2, it is not coming at the expense of VEI, which is still going to be around.

That's such an odd way to view these things. Let me see if I got it. What makes a comic book good or bad is whether or not it 'comes at the expense' of what came before.

Things like quality of storytelling, depth, internal logic, and artistic qualities are all secondary to whether or not the previous versions are 'still kept around' in some capacity.

That's a deeply strange way to judge comic books, but hey you do you. That does help to explain why it's so difficult to discuss comics with you, as most people use much different criteria to judge the fiction they consume.

Well I'm sure you'll love Beyond then, as long as VEI is kept around in a Valiant Zombies mini-series. Hopefully they don't cancel the Zombie series, or it would change your whole opinion of Beyond

[ManofTheAtom]

I've never said "I love DMG and Alien". Try again.

DMG and Alien aren't supposed to adhere to what VH 1 did. They're supposed to adhere to what VEI did since that is what they're continuing from, and they have.

Unlike VH-2, which completely ignored everything that made VALIANT what it was, DMG and Alien have continued exactly from where VEI left off, both in terms of tone and style as well as character and plot arcs, with some exceptions such as DMG ditching the original version of Harbinger Wars II.

As I've stated MANY times before, there are things Dinesh did I disagree with, such as having a multiverse and the like. What you're expecting is for either DMG or Alien to ditch what VEI did entirely and revert to the style of VH-1. While that could be done, they haven't done it yet, and may never do.

Clearly Beyond is intended to be more like VH-2, Marvel, and DC, but UNLIKE VH-2, it is not coming at the expense of VEI, which is still going to be around.

That's such an odd way to view these things. Let me see if I got it. What makes a comic book good or bad is whether or not it 'comes at the expense' of what came before.

Things like quality of storytelling, depth, internal logic, and artistic qualities are all secondary to whether or not the previous versions are 'still kept around' in some capacity.

That's a deeply strange way to judge comic books, but hey you do you. That does help to explain why it's so difficult to discuss comics with you, as most people use much different criteria to judge the fiction they consume.

Well I'm sure you'll love Beyond then, as long as VEI is kept around in Valiant Zombies mini-series. Hopefully they don't cancel the Zombie series, or it would change your whole opinion of Beyond

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does depend on whether or not it follows from what VEI set up.

If it completely ignored it and replaced it with something entirely different then that would be bad, but, so far, they haven't done that. They've continued the same style and world building.

If the new showrunner of Law & Order introduced a cartoon detective like the one from Last Action Hero then that would be a betrayal of what came before.

[Ryan]

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does depend on whether or not it follows from what VEI set up.

If it completely ignored it and replaced it with something entirely different then that would be bad, but, so far, they haven't done that. They've continued the same style and world building.

If the new showrunner of Law & Order introduced a cartoon detective like the one from Last Action Hero then that would be a betrayal of what came before.

hmm, ok so Marvel/DC influenced Valiant comics are only bad because VH2 did it after VH1. But Marvel/DC influenced Valiant comics are good when its done by VEI/DMG/Alien because it had already been done by VH2. Which was bad when VH2 did it, but now it's good because they can't contradict from VH2. Is that it?

And if Alien cancelled the VEI Zombie series that would turn Beyond from good to bad. I think I got it now.

[ManofTheAtom]

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does depend on whether or not it follows from what VEI set up.

If it completely ignored it and replaced it with something entirely different then that would be bad, but, so far, they haven't done that. They've continued the same style and world building.

If the new showrunner of Law & Order introduced a cartoon detective like the one from Last Action Hero then that would be a betrayal of what came before.

hmm, ok so Marvel/DC influenced Valiant comics are only bad because VH2 did it after VH1. But Marvel/DC influenced Valiant comics are good when its done by VEI/DMG/Alien because it had already been done by VH2. Which was bad when VH2 did it, but now it's good because they can't contradict from VH2. Is that it?

And if Alien cancelled the VEI Zombie series that would turn Beyond from good to bad. I think I got it now.

I never said that DMG's and Alien's VALIANT comics are consistent with what VH-2 did. I said they're been consistent with what VEI did.

[Chiclo]

I've never said "I love DMG and Alien". Try again.

DMG and Alien aren't supposed to adhere to what VH 1 did. They're supposed to adhere to what VEI did since that is what they're continuing from, and they have.

Unlike VH-2, which completely ignored everything that made VALIANT what it was, DMG and Alien have continued exactly from where VEI left off, both in terms of tone and style as well as character and plot arcs, with some exceptions such as DMG ditching the original version of Harbinger Wars II.

As I've stated MANY times before, there are things Dinesh did I disagree with, such as having a multiverse and the like. What you're expecting is for either DMG or Alien to ditch what VEI did entirely and revert to the style of VH-1. While that could be done, they haven't done it yet, and may never do.

Clearly Beyond is intended to be more like VH-2, Marvel, and DC, but UNLIKE VH-2, it is not coming at the expense of VEI, which is still going to be around.

That's such an odd way to view these things. Let me see if I got it. What makes a comic book good or bad is whether or not it 'comes at the expense' of what came before.

Things like quality of storytelling, depth, internal logic, and artistic qualities are all secondary to whether or not the previous versions are 'still kept around' in some capacity.

That's a deeply strange way to judge comic books, but hey you do you. That does help to explain why it's so difficult to discuss comics with you, as most people use much different criteria to judge the fiction they consume.

Well I'm sure you'll love Beyond then, as long as VEI is kept around in Valiant Zombies mini-series. Hopefully they don't cancel the Zombie series, or it would change your whole opinion of Beyond

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does depend on whether or not it follows from what VEI set up.

If it completely ignored it and replaced it with something entirely different then that would be bad, but, so far, they haven't done that. They've continued the same style and world building.

If the new showrunner of Law & Order introduced a cartoon detective like the one from Last Action Hero then that would be a betrayal of what came before.

The quality of storytelling has suffered under DMG. With a few standout exceptions, the quality of storytelling has consistently gotten worse. VEI had a couple of losers but those were the exception rather than the rule. DMG have been on a slow road to DC-lite.

[ManofTheAtom]

I've never said "I love DMG and Alien". Try again.

DMG and Alien aren't supposed to adhere to what VH 1 did. They're supposed to adhere to what VEI did since that is what they're continuing from, and they have.

Unlike VH-2, which completely ignored everything that made VALIANT what it was, DMG and Alien have continued exactly from where VEI left off, both in terms of tone and style as well as character and plot arcs, with some exceptions such as DMG ditching the original version of Harbinger Wars II.

As I've stated MANY times before, there are things Dinesh did I disagree with, such as having a multiverse and the like. What you're expecting is for either DMG or Alien to ditch what VEI did entirely and revert to the style of VH-1. While that could be done, they haven't done it yet, and may never do.

Clearly Beyond is intended to be more like VH-2, Marvel, and DC, but UNLIKE VH-2, it is not coming at the expense of VEI, which is still going to be around.

That's such an odd way to view these things. Let me see if I got it. What makes a comic book good or bad is whether or not it 'comes at the expense' of what came before.

Things like quality of storytelling, depth, internal logic, and artistic qualities are all secondary to whether or not the previous versions are 'still kept around' in some capacity.

That's a deeply strange way to judge comic books, but hey you do you. That does help to explain why it's so difficult to discuss comics with you, as most people use much different criteria to judge the fiction they consume.

Well I'm sure you'll love Beyond then, as long as VEI is kept around in Valiant Zombies mini-series. Hopefully they don't cancel the Zombie series, or it would change your whole opinion of Beyond

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does depend on whether or not it follows from what VEI set up.

If it completely ignored it and replaced it with something entirely different then that would be bad, but, so far, they haven't done that. They've continued the same style and world building.

If the new showrunner of Law & Order introduced a cartoon detective like the one from Last Action Hero then that would be a betrayal of what came before.

The quality of storytelling has suffered under DMG. With a few standout exceptions, the quality of storytelling has consistently gotten worse. VEI had a couple of losers but those were the exception rather than the rule. DMG have been on a slow road to DC-lite.

Which ones do you cite as the exceptions to the belief that it's gotten worse and which ones as examples that it has?

[Ryan]

I never said that DMG's and Alien's VALIANT comics are consistent with what VH-2 did. I said they're been consistent with what VEI did.

K so it boils down to: Marvel-lite at VH2 = Antichrist-level bad. Marvel-lite at VEI = Actually pretty great.

Certainly your opinion hasn't been biased in any way from personal experiences, I'm sure it's purely based on an in-depth critical analysis of all the relevant comic books Where's the sarcasm font?

[Chiclo]

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does depend on whether or not it follows from what VEI set up.

If it completely ignored it and replaced it with something entirely different then that would be bad, but, so far, they haven't done that. They've continued the same style and world building.

If the new showrunner of Law & Order introduced a cartoon detective like the one from Last Action Hero then that would be a betrayal of what came before.

hmm, ok so Marvel/DC influenced Valiant comics are only bad because VH2 did it after VH1. But Marvel/DC influenced Valiant comics are good when its done by VEI/DMG/Alien because it had already been done by VH2. Which was bad when VH2 did it, but now it's good because they can't contradict from VH2. Is that it?

And if Alien cancelled the VEI Zombie series that would turn Beyond from good to bad. I think I got it now.

As far as I can tell, MotA’s primary criterium for quality in a comic is rigorous editorial consistency. That is what he primarily appeals to when he is describing good and bad stories. It makes sense that someone with that kind of priority would be drawn to Shooter’s VH1.

[Ryan]

The quality of storytelling has suffered under DMG. With a few standout exceptions, the quality of storytelling has consistently gotten worse. VEI had a couple of losers but those were the exception rather than the rule. DMG have been on a slow road to DC-lite.

Preach. I'm not even a big VEI fan but looking at a Venditti X-O vs. a Hallum X-O issue there's light years of quality difference. Compare pretty much any of them one to one and it's clear as day. Livewire vs. Dysart Harby, Bloodshot Salvation vs. BS Rising Spirit, etc. etc. not in the same ballpark

[Ryan]

As far as I can tell, MotA’s primary criterium for quality in a comic is rigorous editorial consistency. That is what he primarily appeals to when he is describing good and bad stories. It makes sense that someone with that kind of priority would be drawn to Shooter’s VH1.

Yeah I think that's true. And yet DMG from 2018-2023 was a mess for editorial consistency. Half of them seemed like they weren't in the same universe.

[Chiclo]

I've never said "I love DMG and Alien". Try again.

DMG and Alien aren't supposed to adhere to what VH 1 did. They're supposed to adhere to what VEI did since that is what they're continuing from, and they have.

Unlike VH-2, which completely ignored everything that made VALIANT what it was, DMG and Alien have continued exactly from where VEI left off, both in terms of tone and style as well as character and plot arcs, with some exceptions such as DMG ditching the original version of Harbinger Wars II.

As I've stated MANY times before, there are things Dinesh did I disagree with, such as having a multiverse and the like. What you're expecting is for either DMG or Alien to ditch what VEI did entirely and revert to the style of VH-1. While that could be done, they haven't done it yet, and may never do.

Clearly Beyond is intended to be more like VH-2, Marvel, and DC, but UNLIKE VH-2, it is not coming at the expense of VEI, which is still going to be around.

That's such an odd way to view these things. Let me see if I got it. What makes a comic book good or bad is whether or not it 'comes at the expense' of what came before.

Things like quality of storytelling, depth, internal logic, and artistic qualities are all secondary to whether or not the previous versions are 'still kept around' in some capacity.

That's a deeply strange way to judge comic books, but hey you do you. That does help to explain why it's so difficult to discuss comics with you, as most people use much different criteria to judge the fiction they consume.

Well I'm sure you'll love Beyond then, as long as VEI is kept around in Valiant Zombies mini-series. Hopefully they don't cancel the Zombie series, or it would change your whole opinion of Beyond

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does depend on whether or not it follows from what VEI set up.

If it completely ignored it and replaced it with something entirely different then that would be bad, but, so far, they haven't done that. They've continued the same style and world building.

If the new showrunner of Law & Order introduced a cartoon detective like the one from Last Action Hero then that would be a betrayal of what came before.

The quality of storytelling has suffered under DMG. With a few standout exceptions, the quality of storytelling has consistently gotten worse. VEI had a couple of losers but those were the exception rather than the rule. DMG have been on a slow road to DC-lite.

Which ones do you cite as the exceptions to the belief that it's gotten worse and which ones as examples that it has?

Off the top of my head, the Life and Death of Toyo Harada and Dan Abnett’s runs on… Ninjak and Rai? Those are examples of good stories from the DMG era. Pretty much anything else, especially after 2019 or 2020, terrible. Psi-Lords was bad enough but what they have done to the tentpole properties has been beyond hopeless.

[ManofTheAtom]

I've never said "I love DMG and Alien". Try again.

DMG and Alien aren't supposed to adhere to what VH 1 did. They're supposed to adhere to what VEI did since that is what they're continuing from, and they have.

Unlike VH-2, which completely ignored everything that made VALIANT what it was, DMG and Alien have continued exactly from where VEI left off, both in terms of tone and style as well as character and plot arcs, with some exceptions such as DMG ditching the original version of Harbinger Wars II.

As I've stated MANY times before, there are things Dinesh did I disagree with, such as having a multiverse and the like. What you're expecting is for either DMG or Alien to ditch what VEI did entirely and revert to the style of VH-1. While that could be done, they haven't done it yet, and may never do.

Clearly Beyond is intended to be more like VH-2, Marvel, and DC, but UNLIKE VH-2, it is not coming at the expense of VEI, which is still going to be around.

That's such an odd way to view these things. Let me see if I got it. What makes a comic book good or bad is whether or not it 'comes at the expense' of what came before.

Things like quality of storytelling, depth, internal logic, and artistic qualities are all secondary to whether or not the previous versions are 'still kept around' in some capacity.

That's a deeply strange way to judge comic books, but hey you do you. That does help to explain why it's so difficult to discuss comics with you, as most people use much different criteria to judge the fiction they consume.

Well I'm sure you'll love Beyond then, as long as VEI is kept around in Valiant Zombies mini-series. Hopefully they don't cancel the Zombie series, or it would change your whole opinion of Beyond

As started before, the quality of the storytelling, depth, and internal logic haven't changed since the VEI relaunch, while at Alien the art has suffered.

And no, what makes a comic book good or bad has nothing to do with what came before. What makes DMG's and Alien's VALIANT bad or good does depend on whether or not it follows from what VEI set up.

If it completely ignored it and replaced it with something entirely different then that would be bad, but, so far, they haven't done that. They've continued the same style and world building.

If the new showrunner of Law & Order introduced a cartoon detective like the one from Last Action Hero then that would be a betrayal of what came before.

The quality of storytelling has suffered under DMG. With a few standout exceptions, the quality of storytelling has consistently gotten worse. VEI had a couple of losers but those were the exception rather than the rule. DMG have been on a slow road to DC-lite.

Which ones do you cite as the exceptions to the belief that it's gotten worse and which ones as examples that it has?

Off the top of my head, the Life and Death of Toyo Harada and Dan Abnett’s runs on… Ninjak and Rai? Those are examples of good stories from the DMG era. Pretty much anything else, especially after 2019 or 2020, terrible. Psi-Lords was bad enough but what they have done to the tentpole properties has been beyond hopeless.

I actually enjoyed Psi-Lords. While I didn't care for the Green Lantern-esque reimagining, the world building was considerably well done.

Any other concrete examples?

[Chiclo]

I actually enjoyed Psi-Lords.

Hey now! That is my line!

Seriously, every Bloodshot, X-O Manowar, and Shadowman series after 2019. Probably the worst of all was the one where Shanhara became Aric’s wisecracking sidekick - was that the Hallum run? After a certain point, you get to where you don’t even want to learn their names just so it hurts less.

[ManofTheAtom]

I actually enjoyed Psi-Lords.

Hey now! That is my line!

Seriously, every Bloodshot, X-O Manowar, and Shadowman series after 2019. Probably the worst of all was the one where Shanhara became Aric’s wisecracking sidekick - was that the Hallum run? After a certain point, you get to where you don’t even want to learn their names just so it hurts less.

There was a very bad run or two in X-O, sure. Not sure I agree about Shadowman. I think that has been fairly good since Jack returned. I particularly enjoyed the expanded origin of the Loa and Jaunty.