"We Anticipate Being Able to Focus on Expanding": Valiant Publisher Breaks Down New IDW Deal

[ManofTheAtom]

Fair enough, there are plans for an event. So let's say planned comics (so far) Beyond 48 - VEI 6 (fcbd + 5 issue mini)

Those 48 are intended to be published over the course of a year. Again, common sense dictates they likely plan to publish more VEI comics in that same time frame too. And if the event is like Resurgence it will include more than just five issues.

That's technically true, again it depends on success. If Vh2 had been a hit, it would've continued indefinitely and maybe been seen as the 'true' Valiant. As it turned out at only a year and half or so of comics it looks more like side universe in hindsight.

But it wasn't a side universe. It became the de facto VALIANT Universe from the moment it began.

Thanks for looking that up, I missed that quote. At the end of the day, we all just want good Valiant comics. What I've seen from Alien hasn't inspired confidence so far. And now a reboot, whether side or main universe, going back over the same ground with more alternate versions, just isn't the direction I'd like to see it go.

I wish they hadn't gone in that direction.

[Ryan]

Those 48 are intended to be published over the course of a year. Again, common sense dictates they likely plan to publish more VEI comics in that same time frame too. And if the event is like Resurgence it will include more than just five issues.

Sure, but I'm just going off what's been concretely announced. At this moment, Beyond appears to be the main universe with the 4 main brands having books. VEI appears to now be a side universe at best, reserved for the attempt at reviving the gimmicky 'superheroes as zombies' trope. All this could change with future solicitations, and if it does I'll change my view.

But it wasn't a side universe. It became the de facto VALIANT Universe from the moment it began.

That's exactly my point. If a reboot universe is getting the vast majority of the comics being produced, it becomes the de facto main universe. If DC cancelled all of its books except Absolute, it would then become the de facto main DC universe, even if it was intended as a side universe at first.

If during Vh2 there had still been one parody comic set in Vh1 where all of the Vh1 characters were turned into robots or whatever, it wouldn't change the fact that Vh2 was still the 'main' universe, because that's where the adventures of all the main characters were taking place.

I wish they hadn't gone in that direction.

So basically we're in agreement. It's just a matter of you put more stock into some of their statements about how they might be dabbling in multiple different Valiant universes, while I'm just basing my conclusions on what comics are announced that are actually in production.

Time will tell. I actually hope you're right, but I'm just not seeing it. IMO I would be surprised if any of the Beyond comics get to 12 issues. Comics is a tough business for niche brands, and I think the constant relaunching has peeled away Valiant's core audience. But who knows, somebody is obviously invested in getting Valiant comics out there, maybe Beyond will find an audience.

[ManofTheAtom]

Sure, but I'm just going off what's been concretely announced. At this moment, Beyond appears to be the main universe with the 4 main brands having books. VEI appears to now be a side universe at best, reserved for the attempt at reviving the gimmicky 'superheroes as zombies' trope. All this could change with future solicitations, and if it does I'll change my view.

Incorrect. VEI is still the main universe, with the first announced project involving that iteration of the characters being Resurrection. From the start, Beyond has been compared to DC's Absolute and Marvel's Ultimate lines, both of which are side universes.

That's exactly my point. If a reboot universe is getting the vast majority of the comics being produced, it becomes the de facto main universe. If DC cancelled all of its books except Absolute, it would then become the de facto main DC universe, even if it was intended as a side universe at first.

If during Vh2 there had still been one parody comic set in Vh1 where all of the Vh1 characters were turned into robots or whatever, it wouldn't change the fact that Vh2 was still the 'main' universe, because that's where the adventures of all the main characters were taking place.

But, again, you don't know how many comics about the VEI characters Alien intends or intended to publish over the next 12 months. For all you know it could have been just as many or more than the ones for the Beyond line. You're making conclusions based on incomplete information.

Either way, whether they publish 48 Beyond comics and only one VEI comic that doesn't change the fact that the VEI continuity is still the primary continuity.

So basically we're in agreement. It's just a matter of you put more stock into some of their statements about how they might be dabbling in multiple different Valiant universes, while I'm just basing my conclusions on what comics are announced that are actually in production.

Time will tell. I actually hope you're right, but I'm just not seeing it. IMO I would be surprised if any of the Beyond comics get to 12 issues. Comics is a tough business for niche brands, and I think the constant relaunching has peeled away Valiant's core audience. But who knows, somebody is obviously invested in getting Valiant comics out there, maybe Beyond will find an audience.

It is because of the loss of the core audience that they're doing the Beyond stuff in the first place, to try to attract a new one. At the same time, they're not flushing VEI down the toilet.

[Ryan]

Either way, whether they publish 48 Beyond comics and only one VEI comic that doesn't change the fact that the VEI continuity is still the primary continuity.

Lol ok this kind of logic is impossible to argue against. If that's how it works, then actually Vh1 is still the primary continuity, it's just been taking some naps. There was an 8 pager last year though. So it's the Primary Continuity! The primary continuity is whatever you believe it to be. It's really all about whatever continuity is in your heart

[ManofTheAtom]

Either way, whether they publish 48 Beyond comics and only one VEI comic that doesn't change the fact that the VEI continuity is still the primary continuity.

Lol ok this kind of logic is impossible to argue against. If that's how it works, then actually Vh1 is still the primary continuity, it's just been taking some naps. There was an 8 pager last year though. So it's the Primary Continuity! The primary continuity is whatever you believe it to be. It's really all about whatever continuity is in your heart

Not quite how it works, but sure...

[ManofTheAtom]

Within the narrative itself, VH 1 ceased to exist when Aric went back in time and gave himself the X-O Manowar armor. It was further disrupted when Solar witnessed him do it.

Despite what Ivar later claimed about it being impossible to change history, Alpha & Omega established at the onset that traveling back in time did in fact change the future. That was the whole point of that story.

Whether it was Phil Seleski traveling back in time in A&O and stopping the future in which he destroyed the world from happening or Aric traveling back in time and giving himself the X-O Manowar in 408 AD, the end result is the same; in one, Phil stopped VH-0 from ever existing while, in the other, Aric stopped VH-1 from ever existing.

Simply put, once VH-2 started there was no VH-1 anymore.

When VH-2 Solar met VH-1 Solar, he wasn't just traveling from one reality to another, he was also traveling back in time, to before Aric destroyed VH-1.

Whatever Gomez and others may have intended to do in 1999, it surely must be chalked up to editorial inconsistencies, the same kind that DMG's VEI and Alien's VALIANT are being blamed for now.

[Ryan]

Within the narrative itself, VH 1 ceased to exist when Aric went back in time and gave himself the X-O Manowar armor. It was further disrupted when Solar witnessed him do it.

Despite what Ivar later claimed about it being impossible to change history, Alpha & Omega established at the onset that traveling back in time did in fact change the future. That was the whole point of that story.

Whether it was Phil Seleski traveling back in time in A&O and stopping the future in which he destroyed the world from happening or Aric traveling back in time and giving himself the X-O Manowar in 408 AD, the end result is the same; in one, Phil stopped VH-0 from ever existing while, in the other, Aric stopped VH-1 from ever existing.

Simply put, once VH-2 started there was no VH-1 anymore.

When VH-2 Solar met VH-1 Solar, he wasn't just traveling from one reality to another, he was also traveling back in time, to before Aric destroyed VH-1.

Whatever Gomez and others may have intended to do in 1999, it surely must be chalked up to editorial inconsistencies, the same kind that DMG's VEI and Alien's VALIANT are being blamed for now.

1. That's all your interpretation of the last Vh1 issues. Vh1 is never explicitly shown ceasing to exist. If anything, a straightforward interpretation of X-O 68 would be that Vh1 was restarting, not being dissolved into nothingness.

2. Unity 2000 shows in fact that the Vh1 universe continued to exist after 1997. Not to mention later appearances in VEI hardcovers, Bloodshot B&W, etc. and Rai 0 showing events from the current years.

There's no real evidence that the creation of VH2 caused the destruction or dissolution of VH1. But there's massive evidence that shows the opposite, VH1 continued to exist after 1997, despite not being the 'primary being published' universe.

VH2 was merely an alternate timeline/univerese perhaps created by Phil's meddling with the universe (most likely explanation).

Since this is mostly about semantics, how about we call Valiant Beyond the 'primarily being published' universe, and call VEI the 'zombie' universe. Based on current facts, that's what they are.

[ManofTheAtom]

Within the narrative itself, VH 1 ceased to exist when Aric went back in time and gave himself the X-O Manowar armor. It was further disrupted when Solar witnessed him do it.

Despite what Ivar later claimed about it being impossible to change history, Alpha & Omega established at the onset that traveling back in time did in fact change the future. That was the whole point of that story.

Whether it was Phil Seleski traveling back in time in A&O and stopping the future in which he destroyed the world from happening or Aric traveling back in time and giving himself the X-O Manowar in 408 AD, the end result is the same; in one, Phil stopped VH-0 from ever existing while, in the other, Aric stopped VH-1 from ever existing.

Simply put, once VH-2 started there was no VH-1 anymore.

When VH-2 Solar met VH-1 Solar, he wasn't just traveling from one reality to another, he was also traveling back in time, to before Aric destroyed VH-1.

Whatever Gomez and others may have intended to do in 1999, it surely must be chalked up to editorial inconsistencies, the same kind that DMG's VEI and Alien's VALIANT are being blamed for now.

1. That's all your interpretation of the last Vh1 issues. Vh1 is never explicitly shown ceasing to exist. If anything, a straightforward interpretation of X-O 68 would be that Vh1 was restarting, not being dissolved into nothingness.

2. Unity 2000 shows in fact that the Vh1 universe continued to exist after 1997. Not to mention later appearances in VEI hardcovers, Bloodshot B&W, etc. and Rai 0 showing events from the current years.

There's no real evidence that the creation of VH2 caused the destruction or dissolution of VH1. But there's massive evidence that shows the opposite, VH1 continued to exist after 1997, despite not being the 'primary being published' universe.

VH2 was merely an alternate timeline/univerese perhaps created by Phil's meddling with the universe (most likely explanation).

Since this is mostly about semantics, how about we call Valiant Beyond the 'primarily being published' universe, and call VEI the 'zombie' universe. Based on current facts, that's what they are.

I'm not talking about X-O #68, I'm talking about X-O/Iron Man and the Man of the Atom and Revelations one-shots, plus other VH-2 comics that cemented that Aric went back in time and gave himself the X-O armor in 408.

The stories in the VEI hardcovers took place before the crossover with Iron Man when Aric changed history, so they're not evidence that VH-1 continued past that point/1997.

What Aric did was in contradiction of Rai #0, that's what made it a poor story and what contributed to turning VALIANT into a copy of DC.

[Ryan]

I'm not talking about X-O #68, I'm talking about X-O/Iron Man and the Man of the Atom and Revelations one-shots, plus other VH-2 comics that cemented that Aric went back in time and gave himself the X-O armor in 408.

The stories in the VEI hardcovers took place before the crossover with Iron Man when Aric changed history, so they're not evidence that VH-1 continued past that point/1997.

What Aric did was in contradiction of Rai #0, that's what made it a poor story and what contributed to turning VALIANT into a copy of DC.

Then those two sources (Heavy Metal and Revelations) directly contradict all of Vh1 continuity, X-O's original origin being a key event in Vh1 continuity.

The easiest explanation is that HM and Rev. are taking place in a third, separate continuity that's neither VH1 or VH2. That also fits with the multiverse theory established throughout all Valiant iterations since Vh1.

Unity 2000 and Bloodshot HC short story both show post-1997 VH1 characters. I've never read the X-O one.

[ManofTheAtom]

Then those two sources (Heavy Metal and Revelations) directly contradict all of Vh1 continuity, X-O's original origin being a key event in Vh1 continuity.

The easiest explanation is that HM and Rev. are taking place in a third, separate continuity that's neither VH1 or VH2. That also fits with the multiverse theory established throughout all Valiant iterations since Vh1.

Unity 2000 and Bloodshot HC short story both show post-1997 VH1 characters. I've never read the X-O one.

The easiest explanation is that those involved with VH 2 didn't understand what made VALIANT different from DC and Marvel (or cared), and didn't care that what they were doing contradicted what it did, whether it was Rai #0 or rules about time travel or whatnot. They just did what they wanted with no regard.

[Ryan]

The easiest explanation is that those involved with VH 2 didn't understand what made VALIANT different from DC and Marvel (or cared), and didn't care that what they were doing contradicted what it did, whether it was Rai #0 or rules about time travel or whatnot. They just did what they wanted with no regard.

How is this any different than what Alien and DMG are doing/have done?

How is it any different than VEI (with the exception of Dino)?

[ManofTheAtom]

The easiest explanation is that those involved with VH 2 didn't understand what made VALIANT different from DC and Marvel (or cared), and didn't care that what they were doing contradicted what it did, whether it was Rai #0 or rules about time travel or whatnot. They just did what they wanted with no regard.

How is this any different than what Alien and DMG are doing/have done?

How is it any different than VEI (with the exception of Dino)?

Alien hasn't flushed VEI down the toilet like VH-2 did VH-1.

And, as I stated before, Alien is using the multiverse that was already established during Dinesh's time.

Dinesh set up his own rules for VEI. Some I agree with, others -- such as the multiverse -- I disagree with. But you cannot blame Alien for using something that is already there. It would be quite different if they were bringing it in now. Then we could call them out on it.

[Ryan]

Alien hasn't flushed VEI down the toilet like VH-2 did VH-1.

And, as I stated before, Alien is using the multiverse that was already established during Dinesh's time.

Dinesh set up his own rules for VEI. Some I agree with, others -- such as the multiverse -- I disagree with. But you cannot blame Alien for using something that is already there. It would be quite different if they were bringing it in now. Then we could call them out on it.

There's been nothing stopping DMG and Alien from 'understanding and caring about what made Valiant different from DC/Marvel' for many years now. They just don't and they haven't. If there were aspects of VEI they didn't like (multiverse, etc.) they could have easily ignored them. They have total control and deserve all the blame or credit for their own output.

[ManofTheAtom]

Alien hasn't flushed VEI down the toilet like VH-2 did VH-1.

And, as I stated before, Alien is using the multiverse that was already established during Dinesh's time.

Dinesh set up his own rules for VEI. Some I agree with, others -- such as the multiverse -- I disagree with. But you cannot blame Alien for using something that is already there. It would be quite different if they were bringing it in now. Then we could call them out on it.

There's been nothing stopping DMG and Alien from 'understanding and caring about what made Valiant different from DC/Marvel' for many years now. They just don't and they haven't. If there were aspects of VEI they didn't like (multiverse, etc.) they could have easily ignored them. They have total control and deserve all the blame or credit for their own output.

Sure.

Clearly the reason they're doing Beyond is in the belief that it will attract more readers than doing yet another X-O Manowar series or the like that continues existing plot threads, the same way DC is doing with Absolute and Marvel did with Ultimate.

To Alien's credit, they're not flushing VEI down the toilet the way Acclaim did with VH-1. What they've done is send a number of VEI characters to the Underdeadside, stranded two others in the multiverse, and left the rest in the VEI world.

If Beyond ends in failure, they can just pick up the VEI plot threads later on without having to do anything convoluted to put it back together like Unity 2000.

[ManofTheAtom]

The philosophical rift between you and Alien is that while Alien believes that a reboot/sideverse like Beyond will attract a new audience who isn't familiar with VALIANT you believe that bringing back VH-1 will re-attract the original audience.

The ideal thing would be to find a middle ground between the two.

For me, that would be to bring back VH-1 acknowledging the passage of time since the last time we saw it (1997), which would address your side of the debate, and introduce NEW characters (i.e., the children of Pete Stanchek and the like), which would address Alien's side of the debate.

This way you have the original canon, which would appeal to older fans, and new characters, which would appeal to newer fans.

Win-win...

[Ryan]

Sure.

Clearly the reason they're doing Beyond is in the belief that it will attract more readers than doing yet another X-O Manowar series or the like that continues existing plot threads, the same way DC is doing with Absolute and Marvel did with Ultimate.

To Alien's credit, they're not flushing VEI down the toilet the way Acclaim did with VH-1. What they've done is send a number of VEI characters to the Underdeadside, stranded two others in the multiverse, and left the rest in the VEI world.

If Beyond ends in failure, they can just pick up the VEI plot threads later on without having to do anything convoluted to put it back together like Unity 2000.

I get what you're saying in theory, but what plot threads did X-O Unconquered pick up from the Loveless X-O? Loveless X-O from the Kindt X-O? Same for all the various Bloodshot and Shadowman series. They've all taken little or nothing other than basic premise from the previous series. They've already been doing soft reboots over and over for years now.

VH1 flushed itself by being progressively worse each year until it was a nearly unreadable mess by the end. VH2 or Nicieza didn't flush VH1, they were hired to try and create something new out of the failure that VH1 had become. Your personal grudges seem to cloud your logic here.

[Ryan]

The philosophical rift between you and Alien is that while Alien believes that a reboot/sideverse like Beyond will attract a new audience who isn't familiar with VALIANT you believe that bringing back VH-1 will re-attract the original audience.

The ideal thing would be to find a middle ground between the two.

For me, that would be to bring back VH-1 acknowledging the passage of time since the last time we saw it (1997), which would address your side of the debate, and introduce NEW characters (i.e., the children of Pete Stanchek and the like), which would address Alien's side of the debate.

This way you have the original canon, which would appeal to older fans, and new characters, which would appeal to newer fans.

Win-win...

I've been arguing for something like that for years. I've never said a wholesale VH1 revival is necessarily the way to go. Some kind of combination between old and new, but respecting and revering the history.

There's a million ways to do it. I'm not even against a reboot if it would actually respect the history and spirit of the original comics, and try to deeply understand what made people Valiant fans in the first place.

My beef is not with reboots or multiverses, it's only with the quality and tone of the comics put out by DMG and Alien so far, the quality and tone of the Beyond comics looks like even more of a step in the wrong direction.

On top of that their marketing strategy of hyperbole and hype over straightforward, honest, humble communication with the fans is the wrong approach for a niche comic universe IMO.

[ManofTheAtom]

Sure.

Clearly the reason they're doing Beyond is in the belief that it will attract more readers than doing yet another X-O Manowar series or the like that continues existing plot threads, the same way DC is doing with Absolute and Marvel did with Ultimate.

To Alien's credit, they're not flushing VEI down the toilet the way Acclaim did with VH-1. What they've done is send a number of VEI characters to the Underdeadside, stranded two others in the multiverse, and left the rest in the VEI world.

If Beyond ends in failure, they can just pick up the VEI plot threads later on without having to do anything convoluted to put it back together like Unity 2000.

I get what you're saying in theory, but what plot threads did X-O Unconquered pick up from the Loveless X-O? Loveless X-O from the Kindt X-O? Same for all the various Bloodshot and Shadowman series. They've all taken little or nothing other than basic premise from the previous series. They've already been doing soft reboots over and over for years now.

VH1 flushed itself by being progressively worse each year until it was a nearly unreadable mess by the end. VH2 or Nicieza didn't flush VH1, they were hired to try and create something new out of the failure that VH1 had become. Your personal grudges seem to cloud your logic here.

Having recently read all of them, I can confidently say that the Shadowman series, for instance, continued from where the previous one left off in regards to Jack's time as Magpie and such. Same goes for the X-O series.

Some tried to start from a blank slate, likely to attract new readers, which is why they didn't work that well.

Doing VH-2 was entirely Nicieza's idea.

[ManofTheAtom]

The philosophical rift between you and Alien is that while Alien believes that a reboot/sideverse like Beyond will attract a new audience who isn't familiar with VALIANT you believe that bringing back VH-1 will re-attract the original audience.

The ideal thing would be to find a middle ground between the two.

For me, that would be to bring back VH-1 acknowledging the passage of time since the last time we saw it (1997), which would address your side of the debate, and introduce NEW characters (i.e., the children of Pete Stanchek and the like), which would address Alien's side of the debate.

This way you have the original canon, which would appeal to older fans, and new characters, which would appeal to newer fans.

Win-win...

I've been arguing for something like that for years. I've never said a wholesale VH1 revival is necessarily the way to go. Some kind of combination between old and new, but respecting and revering the history.

There's a million ways to do it. I'm not even against a reboot if it would actually respect the history and spirit of the original comics, and try to deeply understand what made people Valiant fans in the first place.

My beef is not with reboots or multiverses, it's only with the quality and tone of the comics put out by DMG and Alien so far, the quality and tone of the Beyond comics looks like even more of a step in the wrong direction.

On top of that their marketing strategy of hyperbole and hype over straightforward, honest, humble communication with the fans is the wrong approach for a niche comic universe IMO.

Beyond does look more like DC and Marvel than VALIANT. It's the comic book equivalent of a tryst trap, something made to attract a specific kind of reader, not unlike VH-1. Fortunately, VEI is still around, unlike with VH-1 back when VH-2 came out.

[Ryan]

Having recently read all of them, I can confidently say that the Shadowman series, for instance, continued from where the previous one left off in regards to Jack's time as Magpie and such. Same goes for the X-O series.

Some tried to start from a blank slate, likely to attract new readers, which is why they didn't work that well.

Doing VH-2 was entirely Nicieza's idea.

So Nicieza made VH1 suck and Nicieza cancelled VH1? No, Layton made Vh1 suck and Acclaim executives canceled VH1. Acclaim people then hired Nicieza to create something new. He was just doing his job, and actually a number of things have stuck in VEI, so for only 1.5 years of comics he must have done some things right.

Beyond does look more like DC and Marvel than VALIANT. It's the comic book equivalent of a tryst trap, something made to attract a specific kind of reader, not unlike VH-1. Fortunately, VEI is still around, unlike with VH-1 back when VH-2 came out.

Eh, that doesn't make any difference. VEI has been the main universe since 2018, has that made the DMG comics any better? The iteration doesn't matter, the quality and execution of the comics is what matters.

[ManofTheAtom]

So Nicieza made VH1 suck and Nicieza cancelled VH1? No, Layton made Vh1 suck and Acclaim executives canceled VH1. Acclaim people then hired Nicieza to create something new. He was just doing his job, and actually a number of things have stuck in VEI, so for only 1.5 years of comics he must have done some things right.

Nicieza decided to replace VALIANT with his DC-inspired iteration. He didn't HAVE to do that. It wasn't his job to create a new version of VALIANT, it was his job to revitalize VALIANT. It was his decision to do it by doing a second version that looked more like a DC or Marvel comic.

Eh, that doesn't make any difference. VEI has been the main universe since 2018, has that made the DMG comics any better? The iteration doesn't matter, the quality and execution of the comics is what matters.

Correct, it does. I didn't see anything in the comics after Dinesh that didn't fit with what came before it. The quality was considerably similar, far more so than with Birthquake or VH-2 before.

[Ryan]

Nicieza decided to replace VALIANT with his DC-inspired iteration. He didn't HAVE to do that. It wasn't his job to create a new version of VALIANT, it was his job to revitalize VALIANT. It was his decision to do it by doing a second version that looked more like a DC or Marvel comic.

You don't know that. It's more likely that Acclaim executives made those decisions. Either way, if VH2 was so terrible, why did VEI use so much of it? You just have a grudge against Nicieza because he and Busiek verbally "tore you a new one" on Usenet almost 30 years ago and you've never let it go.

Correct, it does. I didn't see anything in the comics after Dinesh that didn't fit with what came before it. The quality was considerably similar, far more so than with Birthquake or VH-2 before.

VEI has always been much more similar to Marvel and DC in style and tone than early Valiant. Even when they were remaking the early Valiant stories, they were doing it in the modern comics/Marvel Knights with an artsy touch of Top Shelf Comix style. None of the creators seemed inspired by early Valiant in any way other than lifting the plot lines.

DMG comics are more like DC/Marvel than a lot of VH2 was. Neither of them are good examples of Valiant comics IMO, but VH2's quality was better overall.

[ManofTheAtom]

You don't know that. It's more likely that Acclaim executives made those decisions. Either way, if VH2 was so terrible, why did VEI use so much of it? You just have a grudge against Nicieza because he and Busiek verbally "tore you a new one" on Usenet almost 30 years ago and you've never let it go.

Ryan, Nicieza very publicly stated that VH-2 was entirely his idea. This is not a mystery.

VEI has always been much more similar to Marvel and DC in style and tone than early Valiant. Even when they were remaking the early Valiant stories, they were doing it in the modern comics/Marvel Knights with an artsy touch of Top Shelf Comix style. None of the creators seemed inspired by early Valiant in any way other than lifting the plot lines.

DMG comics are more like DC/Marvel than a lot of VH2 was. Neither of them are good examples of Valiant comics IMO, but VH2's quality was better overall.

Disagree. VH-2 was definitely more like bad '50s and '60s DC than anything VEI ever did.

[Ryan]

Ryan, Nicieza very publicly stated that VH-2 was entirely his idea. This is not a mystery.

So he decided to cancel VH1? That makes no sense, he was just an Editor. But seriously I'd like to know how you blame him for Birthquake being a disaster and the quality of VH1 being so bad that it lost all its readers and had to be cancelled?

Disagree. VH-2 was definitely more like bad '50s and '60s DC than anything VEI ever did.

And yet, in the past you've said you loved Troublemakers and Serge's Shadowman. VEI used a lot of the concepts from VH2, so they couldn't have all been 'bad '50s and '60s DC'.

But you also love all the DMG and Alien comics, so it's possible we just have very different tastes in comics.

[ManofTheAtom]

Ryan, Nicieza very publicly stated that VH-2 was entirely his idea. This is not a mystery.

So he decided to cancel VH1? That makes no sense, he was just an Editor. But seriously I'd like to know how you blame him for Birthquake being a disaster and the quality of VH1 being so bad that it lost all its readers and had to be cancelled?

Disagree. VH-2 was definitely more like bad '50s and '60s DC than anything VEI ever did.

And yet, in the past you've said you loved Troublemakers and Serge's Shadowman. VEI used a lot of the concepts from VH2, so they couldn't have all been 'bad '50s and '60s DC'.

But you also love all the DMG and Alien comics, so it's possible we just have very different tastes in comics.

I never said that I blame Nicieza for Birthquake.

As for Troublemakers and Shadowman, I said that they could have take place in VH-1 without requiring a reboot. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have had to be done in the style of the VALIANT Universe as it was before it became a copy of DC.