SCHISM from DEFIANT - Kickstarter ft. Jim Shooter, David Lapham

[reddog]

update from one of the creators, on the kickstarter page.....user avatar
Tim Hamilton
5 days ago
Hello,

I Noticed at the 39 minute mark of the Jake Weaver Kickstarted video entitled “Explain Yourself: Jake Weaver and Defiant's Schism” Jake holds up a page of MY art.

Yes, I drew what was then issue 4 of Schism. I know this as I still have the zeroxes of David Lapham’s break downs that I did pencils finishes over, and I have the inked pages of the entire issue. I keep records of most all of my work.

I’m not here because I want a cut of what little money I could get for this kickstarter. I did the work for hire years ago and got paid.

Although I’m not sure who is making money off this(some of my art) kick Starter now? Defiant is long gone.

I have not seen what the new art looks like for this new edition. I don’t know if they redrew the whole thing or if they inked my art?

My only point:

If you used and inked my art, it would be good to at least give credit to creators.

Are there are other artists who worked on the original project who’s pages you used and also gave no credit to?

Give creators credit.

But also, please don’t put my name on this 30 year old cross over event.

Tim Hamilton

[syzhang28]

update from one of the creators, on the kickstarter page.....user avatar
Tim Hamilton
5 days ago
Hello,

I Noticed at the 39 minute mark of the Jake Weaver Kickstarted video entitled “Explain Yourself: Jake Weaver and Defiant's Schism” Jake holds up a page of MY art.

Yes, I drew what was then issue 4 of Schism. I know this as I still have the zeroxes of David Lapham’s break downs that I did pencils finishes over, and I have the inked pages of the entire issue. I keep records of most all of my work.

I’m not here because I want a cut of what little money I could get for this kickstarter. I did the work for hire years ago and got paid.

Although I’m not sure who is making money off this(some of my art) kick Starter now? Defiant is long gone.

I have not seen what the new art looks like for this new edition. I don’t know if they redrew the whole thing or if they inked my art?

My only point:

If you used and inked my art, it would be good to at least give credit to creators.

Are there are other artists who worked on the original project who’s pages you used and also gave no credit to?

Give creators credit.

But also, please don’t put my name on this 30 year old cross over event.

Tim Hamilton

Oh my god, first David Lapham and now Tim Hamilton hasn't heard of this and doesn't have a royalty deal. What happened to 'we talked to everyone and everyone is getting paid and approved this campaign'. These guys are so full of it. SCAM!

[reddog]

schamsers response to this on kickstarter is absolutely hilarious....also seems the totals are going backwards....the 10k pledge mysteriously disappeared....down to 21k now...

[Chiclo]

I am skeptical that the creators of this kickstarter have gone through the best practices in setting up this project BUT I do not think that this is a scam, or at least, scam is not the right word for what I perceive as their unintentional oversights and gaps. The creators of this kickstarter appear to want to be fair to both creators and customers but this is an unusual situation.

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

Printing a project like this, where the content has been completed and scattered for over 30 years and the company has gone out of business and the IPs sold and forgotten a couple times over, it is difficult to know what to do to cover all the bases the right way. It is not like you can google up a checklist and go step be step. Maybe there is a youtube tutorial with 7 views and a host with a hard to place foreign accent.

[syzhang28]

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

For me this is everything. Scam is probably not the right word but if they have not gotten permission from the actual owners and just people like Jim Shooter who are former owners and not just creators of the IPs then theft is a more accurate word. Somebody owns this story and art, doesn't matter if the creators were paid for it years ago or if the story and art have been lying around for decades or even if the owner doesn't know about it. You can't use it without the owners permission.

[ManofTheAtom]

I am skeptical that the creators of this kickstarter have gone through the best practices in setting up this project BUT I do not think that this is a scam, or at least, scam is not the right word for what I perceive as their unintentional oversights and gaps. The creators of this kickstarter appear to want to be fair to both creators and customers but this is an unusual situation.

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

Printing a project like this, where the content has been completed and scattered for over 30 years and the company has gone out of business and the IPs sold and forgotten a couple times over, it is difficult to know what to do to cover all the bases the right way. It is not like you can google up a checklist and go step be step. Maybe there is a youtube tutorial with 7 views and a host with a hard to place foreign accent.

Members of this board once completed production on two unpublished comics, Secret Weapons: Playing With Fire and Unity 2000.

What were the circumstances around those?

[Chiclo]

I am skeptical that the creators of this kickstarter have gone through the best practices in setting up this project BUT I do not think that this is a scam, or at least, scam is not the right word for what I perceive as their unintentional oversights and gaps. The creators of this kickstarter appear to want to be fair to both creators and customers but this is an unusual situation.

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

Printing a project like this, where the content has been completed and scattered for over 30 years and the company has gone out of business and the IPs sold and forgotten a couple times over, it is difficult to know what to do to cover all the bases the right way. It is not like you can google up a checklist and go step be step. Maybe there is a youtube tutorial with 7 views and a host with a hard to place foreign accent.

Members of this board once completed production on two unpublished comics, Secret Weapons: Playing With Fire and Unity 2000.

What were the circumstances around those?

I remember that the Secret Weapons issue was while Dinesh owned the IP and it happened with his blessing. I don’t remember the U2K timing. But you raise a good point.

[syzhang28]

I am skeptical that the creators of this kickstarter have gone through the best practices in setting up this project BUT I do not think that this is a scam, or at least, scam is not the right word for what I perceive as their unintentional oversights and gaps. The creators of this kickstarter appear to want to be fair to both creators and customers but this is an unusual situation.

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

Printing a project like this, where the content has been completed and scattered for over 30 years and the company has gone out of business and the IPs sold and forgotten a couple times over, it is difficult to know what to do to cover all the bases the right way. It is not like you can google up a checklist and go step be step. Maybe there is a youtube tutorial with 7 views and a host with a hard to place foreign accent.

Members of this board once completed production on two unpublished comics, Secret Weapons: Playing With Fire and Unity 2000.

What were the circumstances around those?

I remember that the Secret Weapons issue was while Dinesh owned the IP and it happened with his blessing. I don’t remember the U2K timing. But you raise a good point.

I don't know about Unity 2000 but Valiant definitely approved and even promoted the Secret Weapons fan completion project. Dinesh was very fan friendly.

[midnightonearth]

Hello,

You forgot to add this part.



"Jake Weaver Creator
6 days ago
Tim!! Oh my God! Thank you for reaching out. This is amazing.So glad you found the project.

No one remembered who did the artwork on issues #4 over David Lapham's layouts. The information was thought lost. We couldn't identify who it was. Please send me an email so we discuss this further. My email is contact@midnightonearth.com . Like you mentioned in your post, everyone was paid for their work at the time, according to Jim and Janet, and no one is making a profit of of it. We have credits for all the people that worked on these books, except for the ones that were lost 30 years later. Like yourself. We did not redraw any artwork, this is the fully penciled and inked work recolored. you can see a few of the issue #4 pages in the graphics here. Tim, thank you so much for reaching out. Please contact me, I have a ton of questions for you.. We really honestly and truly had no idea who did what on #4 outside of Lapham. If you any other knowledge about this project, we would love to know. Thanks!"

By the way there are about five people who did inking, we have no clue who they are. So when I asked Janet about this, she still has no idea who Tim Hamilton is. Still. No one knew. We said we contacted the people we knew. You also did not post Tim's response which was:


Tim Hamilton
6 days ago
Hello!

I was just pointing out the fact that the artwork was mine as the comic industry is sadly filled with stories of unpaid royalties, Little money for labor and stories of hard earned creators rights.

Sorry if my assumption was that your intentions were less than honest. I really have nothing to add as it was so long ago. I don't remember much of that time either. Especially Janet Jackson taking a break from her music career to write comics? The Janet who wrote Schism must be a person with the same name as the musician? The only person I remember from that time is Jim Shooter. But I have nothing much to add. Thanks for clearing this up!

Tim Hamilton



Whoever scumbag28 is, I feel very sorry for you. You are literally a lying piece of *SQUEE*. By the way, we got a hold of David Lapham. Guess what? He had no idea who you were, and said he did not talk to anyone about this.

You are actually a liar, and now you are caught.

We are going to a round 2. yes one person pledged 17k and stopped their pledge because they thought it would be withdrawn. They are coming back for round 2.
The average person has no clue how Kickstarter works.

Its people like scumbag28 that make the internet look bad. Someone called you autistic in this thread. I'll just say you are *SQUEE*, and a liar.

Jake

[ManofTheAtom]

I am skeptical that the creators of this kickstarter have gone through the best practices in setting up this project BUT I do not think that this is a scam, or at least, scam is not the right word for what I perceive as their unintentional oversights and gaps. The creators of this kickstarter appear to want to be fair to both creators and customers but this is an unusual situation.

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

Printing a project like this, where the content has been completed and scattered for over 30 years and the company has gone out of business and the IPs sold and forgotten a couple times over, it is difficult to know what to do to cover all the bases the right way. It is not like you can google up a checklist and go step be step. Maybe there is a youtube tutorial with 7 views and a host with a hard to place foreign accent.

Members of this board once completed production on two unpublished comics, Secret Weapons: Playing With Fire and Unity 2000.

What were the circumstances around those?

I remember that the Secret Weapons issue was while Dinesh owned the IP and it happened with his blessing. I don’t remember the U2K timing. But you raise a good point.

Indeed. I doubt the creators involved with either project received further payment, royalties, or any of the like. Do the creators of Playing with Fire even know their comic was completed?

[ManofTheAtom]

I am skeptical that the creators of this kickstarter have gone through the best practices in setting up this project BUT I do not think that this is a scam, or at least, scam is not the right word for what I perceive as their unintentional oversights and gaps. The creators of this kickstarter appear to want to be fair to both creators and customers but this is an unusual situation.

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

Printing a project like this, where the content has been completed and scattered for over 30 years and the company has gone out of business and the IPs sold and forgotten a couple times over, it is difficult to know what to do to cover all the bases the right way. It is not like you can google up a checklist and go step be step. Maybe there is a youtube tutorial with 7 views and a host with a hard to place foreign accent.

Members of this board once completed production on two unpublished comics, Secret Weapons: Playing With Fire and Unity 2000.

What were the circumstances around those?

I remember that the Secret Weapons issue was while Dinesh owned the IP and it happened with his blessing. I don’t remember the U2K timing. But you raise a good point.

I don't know about Unity 2000 but Valiant definitely approved and even promoted the Secret Weapons fan completion project. Dinesh was very fan friendly.

That's how I remember it, yeah.

[midnightonearth]

[syzhang28]

Feels like 34% of the people here believe this kickstarter is on the up and up. 34% and dropping.

[The Chosen 1]

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

For me this is everything. Scam is probably not the right word but if they have not gotten permission from the actual owners and just people like Jim Shooter who are former owners and not just creators of the IPs then theft is a more accurate word. Somebody owns this story and art, doesn't matter if the creators were paid for it years ago or if the story and art have been lying around for decades or even if the owner doesn't know about it. You can't use it without the owners permission.

Hahaha, you lying piece of crap!!! You've been found out as some delusional dullard who lives in a make believe land of fantasy.
"I know David Lapham". No you don't. Jake just proved you are a liar.

I do feel sorry for you. Maybe you're life is so boring and insipid, so you feel the need to come on here and try to be a main character.
But stop with the lies and the self indulgent manner you claim some supreme level of knowledge.
You have problems. Seek help. Stop lying.

[syzhang28]

I would feel a lot more confident if this midnightonearth guy would more directly answer good-faith questions about issues like who owns the Defiant IPs and are they okay with this project or why that is not an issue.

For me this is everything. Scam is probably not the right word but if they have not gotten permission from the actual owners and just people like Jim Shooter who are former owners and not just creators of the IPs then theft is a more accurate word. Somebody owns this story and art, doesn't matter if the creators were paid for it years ago or if the story and art have been lying around for decades or even if the owner doesn't know about it. You can't use it without the owners permission.

Hahaha, you lying piece of crap!!! You've been found out as some delusional dullard who lives in a make believe land of fantasy.
"I know David Lapham". No you don't. Jake just proved you are a liar.

I do feel sorry for you. Maybe you're life is so boring and insipid, so you feel the need to come on here and try to be a main character.
But stop with the lies and the self indulgent manner you claim some supreme level of knowledge.
You have problems. Seek help. Stop lying.

proved me a liar how? By having another creator come forward who had no idea about this?

[The Harbinger]

No dog in this fight, but this thread is delivering

[Ryan]

proved me a liar how? By having another creator come forward who had no idea about this?

Proved your a liar in that you never contacted Lapham. That you're just making sh!t up out of whole cloth to smear this kickstarter because you and red dong are butthurt by Shooter. Why don't you guys try adding something positive to this board? Still waiting on your thread about how great Pizza Detective is.

[syzhang28]

proved me a liar how? By having another creator come forward who had no idea about this?

Proved your a liar in that you never contacted Lapham. That you're just making sh!t up out of whole cloth to smear this kickstarter because you and red dong are butthurt by Shooter. Why don't you guys try adding something positive to this board? Still waiting on your thread about how great Pizza Detective is.

Would love to see where he proved it.

[ManofTheAtom]

Would love to see where he proved it.

By the way, we got a hold of David Lapham. Guess what? He had no idea who you were, and said he did not talk to anyone about this.

Everyone needs to stop ganging up on anyone else. I've been guilty of that and it is very counterproductive.

Everyone needs to just retreat to their respective corners and call it a wash before it continues to escalate...

[syzhang28]

Whoever scumbag28 is, I feel very sorry for you. You are literally a lying piece of *SQUEE*. By the way, we got a hold of David Lapham. Guess what? He had no idea who you were, and said he did not talk to anyone about this.

Oh my god. How did I miss this, talk about a smoking gun. Not only is this guy running a theft kickstarter, he's an idiot too. You just proved me right with this statement. You only just now got in touch with Lapham? That's my whole point. You lied about having everyone contacted (two creators that we know of so far and counting) and lied about everyone getting a piece. If you're going to throw a by the way out there why not address the actual problem with you not telling Lapham. Is he getting a % of the kickstarter? Is he being compensated for the use of his art and his name? You keep dodging the very simple questions about business we are asking.

[1st Among Equals]

Being a very casual board member who just likes the various shooter-verses, these threads are a big push away from keeping the content alive. We get inklings of returns or new content from 20+ year old projects just to have fights over it

[ManofTheAtom]

Both sides are at fault, one for the hostility and the other for not providing the answers to the questions being asked. The latter could have certainly mitigated the former, but this is where we're at...

[valiantdude]

It's pretty ridiculous how this thread is gone... and how we let one schizophrenic person s*** on the whole thing..
the person putting on this Kickstarter right I've always said as a friend of a friend, and there's so much more to the story, because it's about future projects, which the dude said several f****** times, but that's too hard for schizophrenic people... I get that the dude is actually schizophrenic the 28 guy is actually schizophrenic,... it's pretty obvious but to trash this project when Janet Jackson is talking about it she's on a podcast about it, when so many other creators haven't been talking about it, JG jones, it's just insane, but you know people are insane people actually have mental health issues like schizophrenia.....*SQUEE* 28 do you remember when you said that you contacted Laoham and he told you that he had heard nothing, that's where you lied you are a liar and he proved you to be a liar and you don't even remember your own lies which is the funniest s*** ever,...
Here's the thing, the kickstarter will succeed, but *SQUEE* will always be *SQUEE* 28... he's just like that way forever... pray for him God help him, he's a lost soul, but here we are....

[valiantdude]

It's pretty ridiculous how this thread is gone... and how we let one schizophrenic person s*** on the whole thing..
the person putting on this Kickstarter right I've always said as a friend of a friend, and there's so much more to the story, because it's about future projects, which the dude said several f****** times, but that's too hard for schizophrenic people... I get that the dude is actually schizophrenic the 28 guy is actually schizophrenic,... it's pretty obvious but to trash this project when Janet Jackson is talking about it she's on a podcast about it, when so many other creators haven't been talking about it, JG jones, it's just insane, but you know people are insane people actually have mental health issues like schizophrenia.....*SQUEE* 28 do you remember when you said that you contacted Laoham and he told you that he had heard nothing, that's where you lied you are a liar and he proved you to be a liar and you don't even remember your own lies which is the funniest s*** ever,...
Here's the thing, the kickstarter will succeed, but *SQUEE* will always be *SQUEE* 28... he's just like that way forever... pray for him God help him, he's a lost soul, but here we are....

[ManofTheAtom]

You call him names, then he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names. Then you'll call him names, and he'll call you names.


In the end, nothing gets solved, just increasing hostility.