Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
Moderators: Daniel Jackson, greg
- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
VALIANT is not like DC or Marvel, though, since it sought to be set in a more realistic setting, akin to New Universe, newuniversal, and Supreme Power.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:02 amHuh? Why? All superhero stories are categorized in science fiction. I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with genre, literally no one else has ever been debating what genre Valiant comics are in.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 10:57 amMagic realism must enter the conversation as well.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 10:51 amGreat point. That's exactly what I'm talking about.magnusr wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 10:22 amGood question. I also think that "how consistently are things explained by in-universe logic?" is a relevant question. For both questions I believe that early VH1 manages best.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 10:04 am To me the debate is, where do the various iterations of Valiant fall on the spectrum of 'realism'?
Agreed, early Vh1 is the benchmark for sure. Then the debate that's been on this board since the beginning, when exactly did Vh1 start to lose its way in terms of realism and consistency? I think I would separate post-Unity, post-CE, and post-BQ and put them all on different places on the spectrum.
The new part of the debate is that we can now evaluate the VEI era in hindsight, and decide where it fits. As well as the 'DMG era' and the new Alien era.


- Ryan
- I would buy anything about these characters, sadly.
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:51 pm
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
All of them started out using realistic settings, all of them became more unrealistic as time went on. Except for Newuniversal and Supreme Power, because they were just short series that didn't last longer than a year or two.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:16 am
VALIANT is not like DC or Marvel, though, since it sought to be set in a more realistic setting, akin to New Universe, newuniversal, and Supreme Power.
All of them are in the sci-fi genre.
- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
Once magic entered VALIANT it required a middle ground between that and realism, hence magic realism.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:09 pmAll of them started out using realistic settings, all of them became more unrealistic as time went on. Except for Newuniversal and Supreme Power, because they were just short series that didn't last longer than a year or two.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:16 am
VALIANT is not like DC or Marvel, though, since it sought to be set in a more realistic setting, akin to New Universe, newuniversal, and Supreme Power.
All of them are in the sci-fi genre.


- Ryan
- I would buy anything about these characters, sadly.
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:51 pm
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
Ok, but magic realism is a completely separate genre than sci-fi and superheroes.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:10 pm Once magic entered VALIANT it required a middle ground between that and realism, hence magic realism.
- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
Than science fiction, yes. Than superheroes, not necessarily.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:15 pmOk, but magic realism is a completely separate genre than sci-fi and superheroes.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:10 pm Once magic entered VALIANT it required a middle ground between that and realism, hence magic realism.
Most superhero stories are mixed genre.


- Ryan
- I would buy anything about these characters, sadly.
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:51 pm
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
That's exactly what I've been saying, genre is an imperfect categorization developed for the convenience of libraries and bookstores. There are tons of stories that straddle multiple 'genres' or defy all genre conventions, or countless other ways that stories defy easy categorization.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:27 pmThan science fiction, yes. Than superheroes, not necessarily.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:15 pmOk, but magic realism is a completely separate genre than sci-fi and superheroes.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:10 pm Once magic entered VALIANT it required a middle ground between that and realism, hence magic realism.
Most superhero stories are mixed genre.
Which is why the whole 'genre' debate is meaningless. You're the one who keeps bringing it up. All superhero stories get put in the sci-fi or superhero section. Even if there's an entire Batman story where he's just being a detective and doesn't put his costume on, that story doesn't get put in the mystery or detective section.
Go to any bookstore and look at the Magical Realism section. Let me know when you find a superhero story there.
- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
I bring genre into it because you keep using the word fantasy when discussing science fiction instead of the more appropriate term "fiction".Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:39 pmThat's exactly what I've been saying, genre is an imperfect categorization developed for the convenience of libraries and bookstores. There are tons of stories that straddle multiple 'genres' or defy all genre conventions, or countless other ways that stories defy easy categorization.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:27 pmThan science fiction, yes. Than superheroes, not necessarily.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:15 pmOk, but magic realism is a completely separate genre than sci-fi and superheroes.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:10 pm Once magic entered VALIANT it required a middle ground between that and realism, hence magic realism.
Most superhero stories are mixed genre.
Which is why the whole 'genre' debate is meaningless. You're the one who keeps bringing it up. All superhero stories get put in the sci-fi or superhero section. Even if there's an entire Batman story where he's just being a detective and doesn't put his costume on, that story doesn't get put in the mystery or detective section.
Go to any bookstore and look at the Magical Realism section. Let me know when you find a superhero story there.
Fantasy has a very specific connotation you keep ignoring.


- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
Once my comics are published, I'll look into getting them there...Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:39 pm Go to any bookstore and look at the Magical Realism section. Let me know when you find a superhero story there.


- Ryan
- I would buy anything about these characters, sadly.
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:51 pm
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
I'm not ignoring anything. I was using fantasy in one of its most commonly used meanings, meaning something imaginative or made up unrealistically, like people flying without mechanical means is a fantasy.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:48 pm I bring genre into it because you keep using the word fantasy when discussing science fiction instead of the more appropriate term "fiction".
Fantasy has a very specific connotation you keep ignoring.
I'm well aware that there is also a genre of fiction called Fantasy that is most distinctive for its setting, usually in a mythical version of the past.
I've never once referred to the situations in the Valiant comics as being from the Fantasy genre. But since you're always confused about it, I've agreed on this board to stop using the term 'fantasy' to describe something imaginative and unrealistic.
I hope the discussion can turn to more interesting and relevant topics now

- Ryan
- I would buy anything about these characters, sadly.
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:51 pm
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:50 pmOnce my comics are published, I'll look into getting them there...Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:39 pm Go to any bookstore and look at the Magical Realism section. Let me know when you find a superhero story there.
Some of that fits Valiant, some of it definitely does not.
"every magical realism story has fantastical elements that do not occur in our world."

I think the only Magical Realism stories I've read are Haruki Murakami novels and maybe Jorge Luis Borges stories qualify. Definitely enjoyed them and I'm a fan of those authors. There are a lot of interesting possibilities to blend some of those elements into a superhero universe

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
Good, because "imaginative and unrealistic" is just fiction.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:04 pm I've agreed on this board to stop using the term 'fantasy' to describe something imaginative and unrealistic.
Me too.I hope the discussion can turn to more interesting and relevant topics now![]()


- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
"While "fantastical" is closely related to "fantasy," it's not exactly the same; "fantasy" typically refers to a genre of fiction with magical elements and imaginary worlds, while "fantastical" describes something as being strange, whimsical, or out of the ordinary, which could be used to describe elements within a fantasy story, but can also apply to something not necessarily related to a fictional world. "Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:40 pmScreenshot 2025-01-14 143031.pngManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:50 pmOnce my comics are published, I'll look into getting them there...Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:39 pm Go to any bookstore and look at the Magical Realism section. Let me know when you find a superhero story there.
Some of that fits Valiant, some of it definitely does not.
"every magical realism story has fantastical elements that do not occur in our world."Where have we heard that before? Are they talking about orcs and hobbits then?
I think the only Magical Realism stories I've read are Haruki Murakami novels and maybe Jorge Luis Borges stories qualify. Definitely enjoyed them and I'm a fan of those authors. There are a lot of interesting possibilities to blend some of those elements into a superhero universe![]()
Google search, "fantastical is not the same as fantasy".
From what I've seen Magical realism is mostly a Latin American thing. It's intersting.


- Ryan
- I would buy anything about these characters, sadly.
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:51 pm
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
Lol, yeah which is why I've been using the terms fantastical and fantastical elements for years on this website. I love how you flip it around and pretend you're educating me about the very term I've been trying to explain to you for 3 pagesManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:05 pm "While "fantastical" is closely related to "fantasy," it's not exactly the same; "fantasy" typically refers to a genre of fiction with magical elements and imaginary worlds, while "fantastical" describes something as being strange, whimsical, or out of the ordinary, which could be used to describe elements within a fantasy story, but can also apply to something not necessarily related to a fictional world. "
Google search, "fantastical is not the same as fantasy".
From what I've seen Magical realism is mostly a Latin American thing. It's interesting.

- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
You're missing the context.Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:09 pmLol, yeah which is why I've been using the terms fantastical and fantastical elements for years on this website. I love how you flip it around and pretend you're educating me about the very term I've been trying to explain to you for 3 pagesManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:05 pm "While "fantastical" is closely related to "fantasy," it's not exactly the same; "fantasy" typically refers to a genre of fiction with magical elements and imaginary worlds, while "fantastical" describes something as being strange, whimsical, or out of the ordinary, which could be used to describe elements within a fantasy story, but can also apply to something not necessarily related to a fictional world. "
Google search, "fantastical is not the same as fantasy".
From what I've seen Magical realism is mostly a Latin American thing. It's interesting.![]()
Just because something is fantastical it does not make it fantasy.


- Ryan
- I would buy anything about these characters, sadly.
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:51 pm
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
That's exactly what I've been telling you for 3 pages.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:09 pm You're missing the context.
Just because something is fantastical it does not make it fantasy.

- ManofTheAtom
- Deathmate was cool
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Mexico City
- Contact:
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
You've been using the term fantasy TO refer to the fantastical elements in the VALIANT Universe...Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:55 pmThat's exactly what I've been telling you for 3 pages.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:09 pm You're missing the context.
Just because something is fantastical it does not make it fantasy.![]()


- Ryan
- I would buy anything about these characters, sadly.
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:51 pm
Re: Could Phil Seleski, Jack Boniface, and Master Darque Have Been Harbingers?
I've used the term 'fantastical elements' multiple times over the last few years because you're confused that the word fantasy has multiple usages. Look at the records.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:00 pmYou've been using the term fantasy TO refer to the fantastical elements in the VALIANT Universe...Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:55 pmThat's exactly what I've been telling you for 3 pages.ManofTheAtom wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:09 pm You're missing the context.
Just because something is fantastical it does not make it fantasy.![]()
Lol you intentionally misinterpret people because you can't win a debate on the facts. Then you turn around and pretend like I've been using the wrong term and I need to google it when it was you who were pretending to not know the difference the whole time.

That's just a slimy way to debate people, but you do you bro. I could have gone on a 3 page tirade pretending like I didn't understand the term Magic Realism. "OH, you think Valiant should have magic? You think Valiant should be Magical Fantasy like Harry Potter? You said the word Magic so that must be what you mean!"
But no, I tried to understand what you were saying from your perspective and not intentionally misinterpret the terms you're using because that's the adult and respectful way to have a conversation. You do you though, we know you won't change and you'll just keep lecturing everybody on here like you have for decades
